Rafale and FREMM for Egypt Before Xmas?

[Basel]

U are mistaken
The tech in rafale is upped by only f-35 at the moment.Not f-22 as its very old,,if it gets upgraded then its a different story.

su-35s cannot compete with rafale as far as electronics go.

Thats the best i can tell u.

Dear u did not get what I said, I was saying that US is still way ahead in tech and they can make current F-16s more potent then Rafales, when those old block-40s were using JDAMS Rafales did not had that capability, there are several weapons and systems which Rafales got late where else old F-16 of USAF had those. All electronic/avionics of F-35 are tested on F-16 and those can be integrated in it making it more potent then Rafales if customer wants. Just see how UAE have went for block-61 and how USAF are upgrading their F-16s, it clearly shows how much advance US tech is, and French is no where near it.

F-22 is enough advance for any 4.5+ jet that it can eat it. only F-18Gs can handle them in terms of EW systems even Rafales can't handle them.

 

[he-man]

they can make current F-16s more potent then Rafales,

The best f-16 made ie block 60 is inferior to rafale.
But yes i get ur point,,for usa nothing is impossible.

 

[Basel]

The best f-16 made ie block 60 is inferior to rafale.
But yes i get ur point,,for usa nothing is impossible.

Dear block-61 is new version of UAE air force, block-60 are thing of past for them and they are planning their own version of block-70+ that is why they were reluctant to go for Rafales.

Farnborough 2014: Block 61 F-16s for UAE geared at carriage of stand-off weaponry - IHS Jane's 360

On this thread it is said that US F-16V upgrade is actually F-16 block-70.

What upgrades make a Block 60 into a Block 61? - General F-16 forum

 

[he-man]

Dear block-61 is new version of UAE air force, block-60 are thing of past for them and they are planning their own version of block-70+ that is why they were reluctant to go for Rafales.

Farnborough 2014: Block 61 F-16s for UAE geared at carriage of stand-off weaponry - IHS Jane's 360

Still rafale is better.
U can even post this in f-16.net,,a total usa propaganda site and still they will concede this fact humbly.

 

[Zarvan]

Des Rafale et des frégates FREMM pour l'Egypte avant Noël ?

View attachment 164017
Michel Cabirol | 11/12/2014, 6:56 - 445 mots

Une délégation de très haut niveau d'une quinzaine de militaires égyptiens de l'armée de l'air et de la marine est arrivée mercredi à Paris pour discuter gros contrats avec les industriels français, notamment Dassault Aviation et du groupe naval DCNS.


Comme les fêtes de fin d'année arrivent, les industriels de l'armement ont aussi les yeux qui brillent. Et pour cause. Quinze jours environ après la visite à Paris du président Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, une délégation de très haut niveau d'une quinzaine de militaires égyptiens de l'armée de l'air et de la marine, est arrivée mercredi en France en vue de discuter gros contrats avec les industriels français, notamment Dassault Aviation et du groupe naval DCNS, selon des sources concordantes. Si tout se passe bien, la délégation égyptienne pourrait rester une dizaine de jours en France avec comme objectif de conclure avant de rentrer au Caire. A voir...

Et si l'Egypte était le premier client du Rafale, coiffant ainsi le Qatar et l'Inde sur le poteau. Pas impossible même s'il faut rester dans ce type de négociations prudent, très prudent. C'est indéniable le Rafale est à la mode mais il reste encore à Dassault Aviation à signer ce fameux premier contrat tant attendu. Une chose est sure Le Caire est diablement intéressé par le Rafale (entre 23 et 26 avions de combat, selon les sources interrogées). Pour signer ce contrat évalué à 3,6 milliards d'euros environ, les Égyptiens demanderaient à la France un crédit Coface pour tout ou partie du financement des avions de combat. Et certains évoquent un crédit Coface pour la moitié du contrat, l'un moitié serait prise en charge par les banques, qui il y a encore peu de temps étaient très réservées.

Le Caire veut deux frégates FREMM
Dans le domaine naval, l'Egypte ne veut pas une frégate multimissions FREMM fabriquées par DCNS mais deux, dont une anti-sous-marine très rapidement pour l'inauguration de l'élargissement du canal de Suez en 2015. La France est prête à fournir au Caire la frégate Normandie, la deuxième FREMM de lutte anti-sous-marine pourtant destinée à la Marine nationale et qui est en train d'effectuer les dernières mises au point de son système de combat. D'un montant d'environ 1,8 milliard d'euros hors armement, ces deux frégates seraient en quelque sorte les navires amiraux de la flotte égyptienne. Après le Maroc (1 exemplaire bradé), ce serait au tour de l'Égypte de s'offrir ce bijou technologique français.

Et les deux dernières corvettes Gowind (2.400 tonnes) que DCNS souhaite vendre au Caire pour 500 millions d'euros après un contrat de quatre corvettes signés cet été ? Les négociations sont un peu éclipsées par celles sur les FREMM. Toutefois, le groupe naval souhaite parvenir à ses fins sur le dossier des corvettes, qui seraient fabriquées à Lorient.

Google translation:-

Rafale and the FREMM frigates for Egypt before Christmas?

A delegation of high level of fifteen Egyptian military of the Air Force and Navy arrived in Paris on Wednesday to discuss major contracts with French companies, including Dassault Aviation and DCNS naval group.

As the end of year festivities arrive, the arms manufacturers also have their eyes shining. And for good reason. About a fortnight after the visit to Paris of President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, a delegation of high level of fifteen Egyptian military of the Air Force and Navy, arrived Wednesday in France for discuss major contracts with french companies, including Dassault Aviation and DCNS naval group, according to several sources. If all goes well, the Egyptian delegation could stay ten days in France with the aim of concluding before returning to Cairo. To see ...

And if Egypt was the first customer of the Rafale and styling Qatar and India over the bar. Not impossible even if we stay in this type of careful negotiations, very careful. It is undeniable the Rafale is fashionable but still Dassault Aviation to sign the famous first contract as expected. One thing is sure Cairo is devilishly interested in the Rafale (between 23 and 26 combat aircraft, according to sources interviewed). To sign this contract valued at 3.6 billion euros, Egyptians ask France a Coface credit for all or part of the financing of combat aircraft. And some suggest a Coface credit for half of the contract, one half would be supported by the banks, which there is still some time were very reserved.


Cairo wants two FREMM
In the naval field, Egypt does not FREMM multimission frigate built by DCNS, but two, one anti-submarine very quickly for the inauguration of the expansion of the Suez Canal in 2015. France is ready to provide in Cairo Normandy frigate, the second FREMM anti-submarine warfare yet for the Navy and is in the process of making the final preparations for its combat system. At a cost of about 1.8 billion euros excluding weaponry, these frigates are somehow the flagships of the Egyptian fleet. After Morocco (1 copy sold off), it would be the turn of Egypt to offer this French technological jewel.

And the last two corvettes Gowind (2,400 tons) than DCNS wants to sell in Cairo for 500 million euros after a four corvettes signed this summer? Negotiations are somewhat overshadowed by the FREMM. However, the naval group wants to achieve its goals on the corvettes of the file, which would be manufactured in Lorient.

Des Rafale et des frégates FREMM pour l'Egypte avant Noël ?

@Frogman I want come clarification first How many ships we are talking about ? I mean How many and of How many kind you may buy ? According to this news and are these same 4 corvettes which you were postibg about for past few months?

 

[he-man]

@Frogman I want come clarification first How many ships we are talking about ? I mean How many and of How many kind you may buy ? According to this news and are these same 4 corvettes which you were postibg about for past few months?

These are no corvettes,,they are full fledged destroyers,,6500 tonnes each

 

[Zarvan]

These are no corvettes,,they are full fledged destroyers,,6500 tonnes each

How many Egypt may buy ?

 

[Basel]

Still rafale is better.
U can even post this in f-16.net,,a total usa propaganda site and still they will concede this fact humbly.

may be but due to 5th gen tech US don't need new F-16s any more if they did not had 5th gen plane, then who knows F-16XL or similar variants with avionics of F-35 would have become F-16NG.

 

[he-man]

may be but due to 5th gen tech US don't need new F-16s any more if they did not had 5th gen plane, then who knows F-16XL or similar variants with avionics of F-35 would have become F-16NG.

Why would they when they are inducting 2000+ f-35??

 

[black-hawk_101]

Egypt should go for MiG-29s license production about 100-200 of them instead of Rafael and also for about 12+ Russian Corvettes rather than any French or EU equipment at all.

 

[Frogman]

@Frogman I want come clarification first How many ships we are talking about ? I mean How many and of How many kind you may buy ? According to this news and are these same 4 corvettes which you were postibg about for past few months?

With DCNS there is already a confirmed deal for 4 Gowind Combat Multi-mission corvettes and negotiations are ongoing to strike a deal for two more, three of these corvettes will be built in Egypt. Now, Egypt is interested in procuring two FREMM frigates from the same company.

Dear u did not get what I said, I was saying that US is still way ahead in tech and they can make current F-16s more potent then Rafales, when those old block-40s were using JDAMS Rafales did not had that capability, there are several weapons and systems which Rafales got late where else old F-16 of USAF had those. All electronic/avionics of F-35 are tested on F-16 and those can be integrated in it making it more potent then Rafales if customer wants. Just see how UAE have went for block-61 and how USAF are upgrading their F-16s, it clearly shows how much advance US tech is, and French is no where near it.

F-22 is enough advance for any 4.5+ jet that it can eat it. only F-18Gs can handle them in terms of EW systems even Rafales can't handle them.

The reason the Rafale (and any other jet still under development) got certain capabilities later than a mature and already fully developed jet is simply because the French had to integrate, test, and produce indigenous weapons systems on a newly developed bird, not as a result of its inferiority or an inferiority of on board systems.

The F-16 Super Viper did not outperform the Rafale in the Indian MMRCA and the UAE remains interested in acquiring the Raf even with its deal for the F-16 B61.

Plus, in much the same way the F-16 has been upgraded (for the past three decades) the Rafale will too.

 

[Basel]

With DCNS there is already a confirmed deal for 4 Gowind Combat Multi-mission corvettes and negotiations are ongoing to strike a deal for two more, three of these corvettes will be built in Egypt. Now, Egypt is interested in procuring two FREMM frigates from the same company.



The reason the Rafale (and any other jet still under development) got certain capabilities later than a mature and already fully developed jet is simply because the French had to integrate, test, and produce indigenous weapons systems on a newly developed bird, not as a result of its inferiority or an inferiority of on board systems.

The F-16 Super Viper did not outperform the Rafale in the Indian MMRCA and the UAE remains interested in acquiring the Raf even with its deal for the F-16 B61.

Plus, in much the same way the F-16 has been upgraded (for the past three decades) the Rafale will too.

What you don't understand is F-16 is tested beyond any other jets limits, no 4th gen is so extensively tested and developed like F-16 also all 5th gen tech was first tested on F-16, therefore if a customer is ready to pay, they can get a very advance version of F-16, based on mix of many F-16 test beds and technologies. French never had those tech and they got them late and they are still very behind from US its not about F-16 v Rafale its about US v France tech capability.

 

[Frogman]

What you don't understand is F-16 is tested beyond any other jets limits, no 4th gen is so extensively tested and developed like F-16 also all 5th gen tech was first tested on F-16, therefore if a customer is ready to pay, they can get a very advance version of F-16, based on mix of many F-16 test beds and technologies. French never had those tech and they got them late and they are still very behind from US its not about F-16 v Rafale its about US v France tech capability.

No, what it's about is Egypt buying 20-26 incredibly capable fighters, which outperform their own fighter inventory and anything the US, Russians, and Chinese are offering. No one is doubting US tech, but the Rafale is more advanced than every F-16 iteration around and while the F-16 line is coming to a close, the Rafale is about to receive an influx of export orders and therefore funding.

 

[Basel]

No, what it's about is Egypt buying 20-26 incredibly capable fighters, which outperform their own fighter inventory and anything the US, Russians, and Chinese are offering. No one is doubting US tech, but the Rafale is more advanced than every F-16 iteration around and while the F-16 line is coming to a close, the Rafale is about to receive an influx of export orders and therefore funding.

If you are talking about Egyptian F-16s then Russian Mig-35Ds are superior to them forgot about French Rafales.

 

[ptldM3]

Lol,russian paid troll.

Says the guy that keeps getting banned. As for me i have been banned 0 times.

Su-35s simply gets beat in

1)irst(135 km vs 90)

Simply put you are an armchair general that looks at paper stats and thinks he knows everything. The ranges of both aircraft's IRST's can vary wildly depending on many factors such as:

atmospheric conditions
altitude
subsonic or supersonic (higher temperatures a supersonic)
aircraft size
engine count
afterburner


Aircraft such as an F-16 or Mig-21 have less area thus having smaller IR signatures generated from the aircraft heating up in high speed flight. Both aircraft also only have one engine, now if both of these aircraft are tested while flying subsonic so as to reduce the amount of friction heat and both aircraft are tested at high altitude where the temperature is bellow freezing and both aircraft never use their afterburner then their IR signature will be very low. Knowing Rafale and their unrealistic figures they provide it would not surprise me if their IRST figures were inflated by the opposite of what i have mentioned such as a large twine engine aircraft flying low and supersonic with afterburners on.

2)radar(aesa vs pesa)

AESA has its advantages but to simply claim that one radar is better then the other simply because it is a AESA over a PESA is laughable. If the manufactures of both radars actually published highly detailed information about both radars it would probably be several hundred if not several thousand pages long.

3)passive protection suite(spectra>>anything su-35 has)

Yet you know nothing about the SU-35s protection suit armchair general.

4)rcs due to rafale having partial s-ducts and smaller size overall with more composite buildup.

This is silly, both aircraft have taken steps to reduce RCS but at the end of the day neither will surprise anyone with their RCS. It should be mentioned also that the Rafale can have a much greater RCS depending on aspect ration and weapons load.

5)Targetting pod(thales vs uomz)-----Even russians themselves were getting thales pod vs uomz themselves till last year.

Key word to remember, "last year" this implies it is not used anymore.

And change ur pic....................both su-47 and the al-41(the vce one and not 117s got cancelled)

That is an SU-34 in my avatar and not an SU-47 shows how much you actually know.