Radical American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed

[Bl[i]tZ]

The strike also killed Samir Khan, an American of Pakistani origin, and two others who were in the same vehicle as al-Awlaki, said the U.S. official, who was briefed by the CIA. Khan specialized in computer programming for al Qaeda and authored the terror network's online magazine, Inspire.

Officials: U.S.-born al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki killed - CNN.com

 

[westtowel]

 

[IFB]

Good job america....kill them all

 

[lem34]

I think we are well rid of a menace to a society, but guys death lets leave it.

 

[53fd]

Good job America!

 

[President Camacho]

Lets be clear, what this individual was doing was offering a religiosity in which acts of terrorism were to be justified by a particular understanding of religion - This particular religiosity created of this individual an enemy -- We, particularly our admin and mods, should be mindful to understand that offering an alternative to this hate filled religiosity, is a responsibility.

Thank you for saying that Muse.

This is what it reminds me of.

Pennsylvania Man Indicted for Soliciting Jihadists (online) to Kill Americans

Excerpt:

Following the reported shootings in Northern Virginia at the Pentagon and the Marine Corps Museum in October 2010, Begolly allegedly posted a comment online that praised the shootings and hoped the shooter had followed his previous postings encouraging similar acts of violence that might “seem small but cause big damage.”

The indictment charges Begolly with solicitation to commit a crime of violence, which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison, and distribution of information relating to explosives, destructive devices and weapons of mass destruction, which carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison.

If it took just a stupid guy to go this far... I wonder about the significance Awlaki held.

 

[muse]

See, Admin and Mods have a responsibility for keeping forum members safe from these kinds of things - I will refer you to the "defending militancy" thread - you will not fail to see the lack of leadership, especially on so important an idea - we have many young and impressionable readers, do we have no responsibility towards them?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Great news. Those assholes should be napalmed.

 

[President Camacho]

See, Admin and Mods have a responsibility for keeping forum members safe from these kinds of things - I will refer you to the "defending militancy" thread - you will not fail to see the lack of leadership, especially on so important an idea - we have many young and impressionable readers, do we have no responsibility towards them?

Of course yes Muse, we do, and no doubt about that. In fact I myself have even warned one such member to not take the comments lightly and not instigate others. But you know, to clear the drain, you have to step into the dirt.

That particular thread is working like a magnet for the kind of comments that concerns us. I would so much want to visit there, but each and every visit there leaves me so aghast, it becomes very difficult to continue with whatever reasoning you have at your hand.

It is scary indeed, and some times makes me wonder what goes in the minds of those who persuade others, and in the minds of those who may be monitoring it to keep their land safe...

So precisely, what efforts, esp on the part of regular members, do you think would help with whatever is going on in such threads?

 

[muse]

Of course yes Muse, we do, and no doubt about that. In fact I myself have even warned one such member to not take the comments lightly and not instigate others. But you know, to clear the drain, you have to step into the dirt.

That particular thread is working like a magnet for the kind of comments that concerns us. I would so much want to visit there, but each and every visit there leaves me so aghast, it becomes very difficult to continue with whatever reasoning you have at your hand.

It is scary indeed, and some times makes me wonder what goes in the minds of those who persuade others, and in the minds of those who may be monitoring it to keep their land safe...

So precisely, what efforts, esp on the part of regular members, do you think would help with whatever is going on in such threads?

And the responsibility for this is on Admin and mods - one of thee things that is so incredible about that thread is the complete absence of admin and mods - and those who did make an appearance did so to support the right to subvert - see, it's what happens when cultural propositions are not judged with the criteria of right/wrong good/bad -- the offer of support to those who engage in militancy or it's support under the guise of freedom of expression, suggests a totally distorted idea of this "liberty" or civil right - see, how then do you object to the idea that death for apostasy and such?? If holding a gun to peoples head and denying that there are such things as civil rights or liberties, and doing so while claiming a right to do so .

Not only does Pakistan lack the basic capabilities that modern nation states must posses. It lacks them because it doesn’t know why it should possess them. Pakistan’s bureaucracy and parliament are crawling with LSE, Cambridge and Harvard graduates. This is not country that lacks generic capacity. It is a country that lacks a specific and overarching will. What use are the world’s best classrooms, and most revered texts in the absence of a moral compulsion to use them? And how could they ever be used effectively in the absence of an institutional framework to regulate their use?

 

[Perceptron]

See, Admin and Mods have a responsibility for keeping forum members safe from these kinds of things - I will refer you to the "defending militancy" thread - you will not fail to see the lack of leadership, especially on so important an idea - we have many young and impressionable readers, do we have no responsibility towards them?

Muse, what you say about embedding a terrorist act with a religious psyche is a point well taken ; But shouldn't you be advocating the same set of moralistic reasoning to other aspects of the Forum posts not involving a religious fervor here, like blatant "nukophilic" jingoism, the distinction of a freedom-fighter and a terrorist etc. In fact so-called-Researchers here, and Senior and Premium members are virulent advocates of this "nuke-XXX" or "break-YYY" mumbo-jumbo. I feel pitiful, even sometimes disgusted about how the very distinction of "my freedom fighter is your terrorist" notion, that it sounds akin to the "Good Taliban, Bad Taliban" mentality, which is exactly the kind of double tongued double speak that some of the elements in the ISI are accused of.

 

[muse]

Muse, what you say about embedding a terrorist act with a religious psyche is a point well taken ; But shouldn't you be advocating the same set of moralistic reasoning to other aspects of the Forum posts not involving a religious fervor here, like blatant "nukophilic" jingoism, the distinction of a freedom-fighter and a terrorist etc. In fact so-called-Researchers here, and Senior and Premium members are virulent advocates of this "nuke-XXX" or "break-YYY" mumbo-jumbo. I feel pitiful, even sometimes disgusted about how the very distinction of "my freedom fighter is your terrorist" notion, that it sounds akin to the "Good Taliban, Bad Taliban" mentality, which is exactly the kind of double tongued double speak that some of the elements in the ISI are accused of.

It's all tied to that religiosity - and the reason those opinions find a voice here is because we fail in our effort to offer a "alternative religious narrative" - in other words, we fail in our effort to say this is not just not islam but cannot be and here's why

So it becomes really easy for the lunes to wrap themselves in the flag and from there, well, you know this is a defense forum, people already are nationalistic and patriotic, so it becomes easy to rob them of a certain critical method if you will.

 

[Perceptron]

It's all tied to that religiosity - and the reason those opinions find a voice here is because we fail in our effort to offer a "alternative religious narrative" - in other words, we fail in our effort to say this is not just not islam but cannot be and here's why

So it becomes really easy for the lunes to wrap themselves in the flag and from there, well, you know this is a defense forum, people already are nationalistic and patriotic, so it becomes easy to rob them of a certain critical method if you will.

Well yes, it fits in this context that religiosity maybe the true evil. As a solution, why not fight fire with fire ? If your propaganda is religiosity, my counter-propaganda will also be religiosity by maybe showing examples of the very religion he's trying to defend that casts it into a poor light (catch my drift ?). Has this tried and failed ?

 

[muse]

Well yes, it fits in this context that religiosity maybe the true evil. As a solution, why not fight fire with fire ? If your propaganda is religiosity, my counter-propaganda will also be religiosity by maybe showing examples of the very religion he's trying to defend that casts it into a poor light (catch my drift ?). Has this tried and failed ?

Again I refer you to the "Defending Militancy" thread - there are three types of religiosity mentioned and explained -- note the response of the admin and mods (or lack thereof) - See, I really don't know what we can do - leadership is theirs to offer - and lets face i,t they have offered leadership, but it's not what we think it should be.

In addition we have to be real about what the state is teaching these people, they already come to issues in a defensive, aggressive mode - so when they come across things that they have never come across before, their immediate reaction is denial and alternately it is to revert to the kinds of ideas they absorbed in school and society

The alternate religious narrative is a religiosity informed by the idea of FAITH, alas - this is a very difficult thing to impart, actually it cannot be imparted unless people are ready to absorb it

 

[President Camacho]

And the responsibility for this is on Admin and mods - one of thee things that is so incredible about that thread is the complete absence of admin and mods - and those who did make an appearance did so to support the right to subvert - see, it's what happens when cultural propositions are not judged with the criteria of right/wrong good/bad -- the offer of support to those who engage in militancy or it's support under the guise of freedom of expression, suggests a totally distorted idea of this "liberty" or civil right - see, how then do you object to the idea that death for apostasy and such?? If holding a gun to peoples head and denying that there are such things as civil rights or liberties, and doing so while claiming a right to do so .

I stopped visiting that thread long ago, so I am not so much aware of the specifics to note how obvious and zealous the support is (to the justification of glorifying extremism as the sole protector cum savior of the religion/state).

But for as long as I was there, it was not hard to notice that the support, whether from the Mods, or from others, came partly out of conviction, and partly out of compulsion.

Perhaps that is the reason that discussion on religion is banned in this forum, but of course, that rule does not exonerate anyone, not the Mods anyway. With regard to taking quick action on the members whose wordings are the subject of talk here, I can safely say that there is a lack of consensus among the Mods.

The religion is paramount, no doubt, but one, esp the Mods, has to keep a constant check on whether the conviction is gradually turning into a blinding compulsion. To me it appears similar to the case of that 8th grade girl who was expelled from the school for some sort of misspelling. It was neither the clergy, nor hatemongers responsible for her expulsion, because the right to take decision rested with the school authorities. But they caved in, or perhaps they too got emotional with regard to religion, and allowed the extremists to do their thing.

Over here, the Mods will have to keep a sharp focus on whenever someone trying to protect the religion - a defensive position, starts instigating others - an offensive position. This may call for a lot of mental hardwork on the part of the Mods, but then, laxity on this aspect can also turn someone's life upside down.

______________________________

Please excuse me, I had left the page open and gone out for a walk. Just came in to finish the post, and then saw yours and perceptron's posts.