Questions About Exploitation of Indian "IT Coolies"

[karan.1970]

Just yesterday, Ratan Tata of TCS said the focus now "would be to climb the value chain in a bid to differentiate its services from competition."

It's obvious from the statement that Tata knows it. TCS is all low-value coolie work done in its sweatshops....its only differentiation is the lowest possible cost, nothing else.

Do read about TCS's recent aquisition of CitiBank's global shared services business. Includes activities like Portfolio management, commercial and investment banking, equity analysis etc.. But I guess its pretty low end compared to the high end business going into Pakistan these days.. Would be nice for us coolies to have a glimpse into that so that we can set our aspirational targets..

 

[TechLahore]

I dont think its fearing Indo Pak war.. Since this has been there since before 26/11. And as you are rightly saying, 400 km is nothing in terms or the range of missiles and fighter jets today..

Actually, 400Km only makes sense in the context of war as all previous conflicts between India and Pakistan have been fought within this sort of area. As for travel advisories, there are numerous issued due to the insurgencies active in India and these areas are more than 400Km away from the Pakistan border, so the troubled spot hypothesis doesn't make sense.

Please see the US State Dept travel advisory:

India

Please read through the section listing north eastern states and numerous other areas of instability which are a safety and security concern for americans.

The reality is that US IT business interests in India are concentrated in a few cities.

Agree to the last statement on what such companies should do. Would be interested to know any specifics about GE that you mentioned.

Extract from NYT:

So it was no wonder that when the State Department issued a travel advisory on May 31 warning Americans to leave India because the war prospects had risen to ''serious levels,'' all these global firms who had moved their back rooms to Bangalore went nuts.

''That day,'' said Vivek Paul, vice chairman of Wipro, ''I had a C.I.O. [chief information officer] from one of our big American clients send me an e-mail saying: 'I am now spending a lot of time looking for alternative sources to India. I don't think you want me doing that, and I don't want to be doing it.' I immediately forwarded his letter to the Indian ambassador in Washington and told him to get it to the right person.''

Article: India, Pakistan And G.E. - Op-Ed - NYTimes.com

 

[naveeddil]

Dears...
If you have studied the IT in a Completely Business contrast so the above facts are true and completly agreeable
if
.
.
u dont panic so accept it

 

[karan.1970]

What 15K for 10th std? Indian college grads are lining up for coolie jobs in the Indian Rail system.

Sanap and Kudalkar are among the 1,311 applicants — many of them graduates with additional professional qualifications — vying for 79 jobs that don’t guarantee them any income every day. The applicants have to go through a stringent process before being sent for the final selection.

After finishing a 1,500-metre run in seven minutes, the applicants are sent for a medical screening. ‘‘Half of the applicants turn up for the medical tests and only those who pass that test are eligible for the post,’’ Central Railway PRO Anil K Singh said.

The long list of applications coming from graduates doesn’t come as a surprise to the railways. ‘‘Many of these porters don’t even stick to the rates specified by the union and end up raking in extra money. Moreover, they also get promotions on a regular basis,’’ Singh said. Former railway minister Lalu Prasad had introduced a scheme through which porters could be promoted as railway gangmen. ‘‘Once they get hired as a porter, they can look forward to the job of a gangman. This is the main attraction for all the applicants,’’ added Singh.

Graduates line up to be coolies - India - The Times of India

And being a porter is demeaning/immoral/bad? Interesting to see this coming from a person living in a country where dignity of labor is considered paramount... Goes to show the results that can come out a combination of good writing skills and intellectual bankruptcy.

 

[TechLahore]

Do read about TCS's recent aquisition of CitiBank's global shared services business. Includes activities like Portfolio management, commercial and investment banking, equity analysis etc.. But I guess its pretty low end compared to the high end business going into Pakistan these days.. Would be nice for us coolies to have a glimpse into that so that we can set our aspirational targets..

Was Riaz claiming that Pakistan is attracting higher end outsourcing? Because if he wasn't then I don't think the sarcasm on this account is really called for or helpful.

I think the overall issue - and one that I do agree with - is that after a couple of decades, the outsourcing to India continues to be labour arbitrage. One would have thought that product companies would have materialized - ones as large as a Symantec at least - if not an SAP. But not a single one has.

I know our Indian friends are getting defensive on this issue because they perceive this as criticism, so perhaps if you look at some third-party reports on this subject and your own industry's views it might put things in context?

For example, the following:

The New York Times > Log In

“The same idea, if it’s born in Silicon Valley it goes the distance,” said Nadathur S. Raghavan, a investor in start-ups and a founder of Infosys, one of India’s most successful technology companies. “If it’s born in India it does not go the distance.”

Mr. Raghavan and others say India is held back by a financial system that is reluctant to invest in unproven ideas, an education system that emphasizes rote learning over problem solving, and a culture that looks down on failure and unconventional career choices.

 

[mavvrick_111]

lols ..................

 

[karan.1970]

Actually, 400Km only makes sense in the context of war as all previous conflicts between India and Pakistan have been fought within this sort of area. As for travel advisories, there are numerous issued due to the insurgencies active in India and these areas are more than 400Km away from the Pakistan border, so the troubled spot hypothesis doesn't make sense.

Please see the US State Dept travel advisory:

India

Please read through the section listing north eastern states and numerous other areas of instability which are a safety and security concern for americans.

The reality is that US IT business interests in India are concentrated in a few cities.

Not too sure that I agree to the war scenario since this is based on the actual discussions I have had with these folks.. By past record also, neither India nor Pakistan in past have intentionally targetted. Also this is not related to the possibility of terror strikes since those are distance agnostic (talk about 9/11)

And the troubled spots in India also figure into the decision of site selection just like they do for any other country. What I was refering to was a distance factor from a country itself. The same incidently applies to Mynamar as well. Gave us a lot of headache while we were setting up a center in Orissa.

 

[indian_warrior]

Was Riaz claiming that Pakistan is attracting higher end outsourcing? Because if he wasn't then I don't think the sarcasm on this account is really called for or helpful.

I think the overall issue - and one that I do agree with - is that after a couple of decades, the outsourcing to India continues to be labour arbitrage. One would have thought that product companies would have materialized - ones as large as a Symantec at least - if not an SAP. But not a single one has.

I know our Indian friends are getting defensive on this issue because they perceive this as criticism, so perhaps if you look at some third-party reports on this subject and your own industry's views it might put things in context?

For example, the following:

The New York Times > Log In

“The same idea, if it’s born in Silicon Valley it goes the distance,” said Nadathur S. Raghavan, a investor in start-ups and a founder of Infosys, one of India’s most successful technology companies. “If it’s born in India it does not go the distance.”

Mr. Raghavan and others say India is held back by a financial system that is reluctant to invest in unproven ideas, an education system that emphasizes rote learning over problem solving, and a culture that looks down on failure and unconventional career choices.

If innovation is only product development then you are right.

But today some Indian company can successfully execute multi billion dollar projects. It is not sub contract.

 

[nForce]

If these are the locations where some of the so called "Cyber coolies" work,then so be it....I dont have a problem with that....

And by the way the job done by the IT Giants like TCS,Wipro,Infosys,Mahindra-Satyam etc etc....is a little more than Call centre jobs ...Now I just cant laugh my lungs out..I know what kind of job goes on there.I have been in the centre of action.....Get a life people....I am not going to pull out the performance sheets of all these companies for a small time troll.That will be a wastage of my time..Just my 2 cents..

"Jealousy is no more than feeling alone against smiling enemies." --Elizabeth Bowen

I dedicate the quote to all those mean minded jealous people who could do nothing for their own and hence keep themselves satisfied by criticizing others.....


"Envy is the most stupid of vices, for there is no single advantage to be gained from it." --Honore de Balzac


I dedicate the quote to all those envious people who have wasted their own valuable time doing nothing creative but only watching the neighbour's development, nail biting and wishing their downfall all the time.

Have a good day....

 

[Bang Galore]

Before a war starts western countries will likely conduct a flurry of missions to get their citizens out of India. This is pretty standard in a war zone. By the time a war breaks out one can expect that expats will no longer be present in these centers so there will be no need to discriminate.

A war has to be feared/started for expats to leave India.

What is the routine advice that embassies give to their nationals in Pakistan? Something that they would give in India, only in the case of imminent war?

You of all people should not be joining Mr.Haq in his tirade. Was thinking of you while reading about the bomb attacks in Lahore. Was thinking that your job to get people focused on the brighter/sunnier things in life in Pakistan generally & Lahore specifically, just got harder. You should, more than others be appreciative of a reputation built up on the same kind of passion that you exhibit & not join serial depreciators who atleast have the excuse of that being their life's passion. Don't see any reason for you to make it yours!

 

[karan.1970]

Actually, 400Km only makes sense in the context of war as all previous conflicts between India and Pakistan have been fought within this sort of area. As for travel advisories, there are numerous issued due to the insurgencies active in India and these areas are more than 400Km away from the Pakistan border, so the troubled spot hypothesis doesn't make sense.

Please see the US State Dept travel advisory:

India

Please read through the section listing north eastern states and numerous other areas of instability which are a safety and security concern for americans.

The reality is that US IT business interests in India are concentrated in a few cities.

Not too sure that I agree to the war scenario since this is based on the actual discussions I have had with these folks.. By past record also, neither India nor Pakistan in past have intentionally targetted. Also this is not related to the possibility of terror strikes since those are distance agnostic (talk about 9/11)

And the troubled spots in India also figure into the decision of site selection just like they do for any other country. What I was refering to was a distance factor from a country itself. The same incidently applies to Mynamar as well. Gave us a lot of headache while we were setting up a center in Orissa.


Interesting about GE. Didnt know that. Was interested since I was employed by GE at that time

---------- Post added at 12:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 PM ----------

Was Riaz claiming that Pakistan is attracting higher end outsourcing? Because if he wasn't then I don't think the sarcasm on this account is really called for or helpful.

I think the overall issue - and one that I do agree with - is that after a couple of decades, the outsourcing to India continues to be labour arbitrage. One would have thought that product companies would have materialized - ones as large as a Symantec at least - if not an SAP. But not a single one has.

I know our Indian friends are getting defensive on this issue because they perceive this as criticism, so perhaps if you look at some third-party reports on this subject and your own industry's views it might put things in context?

For example, the following:

The New York Times > Log In

“The same idea, if it’s born in Silicon Valley it goes the distance,” said Nadathur S. Raghavan, a investor in start-ups and a founder of Infosys, one of India’s most successful technology companies. “If it’s born in India it does not go the distance.”

Mr. Raghavan and others say India is held back by a financial system that is reluctant to invest in unproven ideas, an education system that emphasizes rote learning over problem solving, and a culture that looks down on failure and unconventional career choices.

Tech.. What you are saying and what Riaz is are 2 totally different angles. Are you really missing the intent of his article or are you feeling compelled to side with it becuase he is also a Pakistani? Criticism doesnt deserve a counter attack but an offensive comment like Riaz's doesnt deserve anything else.

btw, wasnt there a mandate from the Mod team that prohibited posting threads about indian economy and such. Or was that only for the articles that show India in a good light?

 

[Goodperson]

Your perceptions are not reality. The reality is that Pakistan does have this capability. This reality has been corroborated by numerous studies, analyses etc. The reality is also that the intentions you ascribe to Pakistan are ill-informed.

Reality is Pakistan does not have so called coolies in numbers for reasons best known to itself.

Another reality is IT Outsourcing is booming in borders areas of Pakistan viz, Punjab Gujarat and no so far Delhi (NCR) Maharashtra.

No use of boasting.

Please understand Topic starter probably wants help coolies if it can benefit India than it will Benefit Pakistan too.

 

[TechLahore]

You of all people should not be joining Mr.Haq in his tirade. Was thinking of you while reading about the bomb attacks in Lahore. Was thinking that your job to get people focused on the brighter/sunnier things in life in Pakistan generally & Lahore specifically, just got harder. You should, more than others be appreciative of a reputation built up on the same kind of passion that you exhibit & not join serial depreciators who atleast have the excuse of that being their life's passion. Don't see any reason for you to make it yours!

Neither am I part of any tirade and nor does my participation in any thread mean that I am 'siding' with the thread starter. You guys are reading far more into this than reason would allow.

And as for the brighter side of life, give it a day, Lahoris will be back in full force. Impossible to get us down

 

[billi]

Very interesting. There were widespread reports and several newspaper articles suggesting that western companies who had outsourced operations to the sub-continent were quite panicked by the last Pakistan-India military standoff. Some of the executives at these companies apparently asked the State Dept. to intervene also.

I guess the 400Km requirement is outdated. Initially, it may have served as an attempt to keep their delivery centers safe in case of a conflict. But the reality is that if a conflict were to break out no city in either country would be safe. I would assume the textile industry in Faisalabad would be on the target list, and as per statements from retired Pakistan Army officers, I would similarly assume that IT centers in India would be eliminated. Even if they are more than 400Km away.

The best approach for large western companies who do have operations in the sub continent is to help - directly and indirectly - promote a solution to the Pakistan-India dispute so that real stability is restored in the region. Companies like GE have done this in the past and more should join the cause...

stupid logic. the main property of IT in india is the people. So in case of was only uildings will be destroyed and maybe computers (which i am sure are insured) the data server will reside in client location in us or europe. No critical data is needed. Also bangalore may have been the first but there are IT centres in whole of india and all major it companies have centres in all cities of india. So eg if bangalore is bombed and a few campuses of infy are destroyed, trust me infy centres in other locations will still deliver. I know for a fact that disaster recovery is always planned. In time of war , yes business will slow down but, will recover.
How will indian bombing of pakistan impact its economy?

 

[TechLahore]

No use of boasting.

What??? What am I boasting about?

Relax. Re-read what I wrote and parse it properly so that you can self-remedy your confusion on this front.