Questions about Butt/Khawaja clan and Kashmiri descendants in Pakistan

[saaju]

[QOTE="_Khawaja, post: 9106090, member: 174284"] Well AJK and the valley are pretty different, I mean the Pahari Khawajas may be the same caste as the Punjabi Khawajas, but it isn't the same as Khawajas from the Kashmir valley. Similarly, Wyne and Wani are two different clans, the first one a native Punjabi clan while the other is a kashmiri clan. As for completely different, I don't think of the Kashmiri clans (Mir,Dars,Lones, Butts or Khawajas) are "completely different" from each other. Pretty much all the clans look the same in terms of facial features and language/culture.[/QUOTE]


Origin could be same but when we talk about present condition these are different from each other in many aspects like influence/dominance etc In rural areas of Kashmir people from particular clan "were" dominant they were know as "number dar" in my area MIR were most dominant They enjoyed special rights over rest of people (somewhat similar to brahmin & dalits in India) but with time these things are vanished ..
There are some people who change their clan to enjoy increased rights , respect , influence .

 

[_Khawaja]

[QOTE="_Khawaja, post: 9106090, member: 174284"] Well AJK and the valley are pretty different, I mean the Pahari Khawajas may be the same caste as the Punjabi Khawajas, but it isn't the same as Khawajas from the Kashmir valley. Similarly, Wyne and Wani are two different clans, the first one a native Punjabi clan while the other is a kashmiri clan. As for completely different, I don't think of the Kashmiri clans (Mir,Dars,Lones, Butts or Khawajas) are "completely different" from each other. Pretty much all the clans look the same in terms of facial features and language/culture.


Origin could be same but when we talk about present condition these are different from each other in many aspects like influence/dominance etc In rural areas of Kashmir people from particular clan "were" dominant they were know as "number dar" in my area MIR were most dominant They enjoyed special rights over rest of people (somewhat similar to brahmin & dalits in India) but with time these things are vanished ..
There are some people who change their clan to enjoy increased rights , respect , influence .

What part of AJK are you from?

 

[saaju]

What part of AJK are you from?

Capital city Muzaffarabad . basically from a village , mostly my experience is based on village life .

 

[_Khawaja]

Would really appreciate any insight from other Kashmiri-Punjabis

 

[Armstrong]

I can't imagine who would name themselves the Butts. Hey @Fenrir you wouldn't know someone with that silly surname by any chance or would you?

 

[Orakzai]

So if khawajas, Butts and Shaikhs are all kashmiris, who are the actual punjabis in Punjab?

 

[sohailbutt1987]

Chaudry's!

 

[PakistaniNawab]

Well I'am originally from azaad kashmir and ethnically speaking we are not koshur but pahari or potowari people and the people from occupied kashmir are koshur who are of dardic origins and mir and khawaja are persian titles so you must of been from brahim ancestry.

Capital city Muzaffarabad . basically from a village , mostly my experience is based on village life .

Have you ever been mirpur?

 

[_Khawaja]

So if khawajas, Butts and Shaikhs are all kashmiris, who are the actual punjabis in Punjab?

Not all Khawajas and Sheikhs are of Kashmiri descent, in fact the majority are native Punjabi's. Kashmiri Khawajas and Sheikhs are a different community, it can be confusing for some.

 

[asad71]

Dhaka Nawabs were Kashmiri Khwajas. They were merchants who settled down in Dhaka and eventually played a key role in the creation of Pakistan.

 

[Kabira]

So if khawajas, Butts and Shaikhs are all kashmiris, who are the actual punjabis in Punjab?

Butts are kashmiri descent in punjab. Khawajas and sheikh are generic titles who could be anybody. Sheikh in punjab is associated with traders. You know Mian Mansha types and many others like Chinioty sheikh etc.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Butts stink..who agrees?

 

[The Diplomat]

Are you a Kashmiri sheikh? My fam uses both Butt and Khawaja, I don't know if it's the same thing.

To my understanding are Arain (Mian, Chaudhary) similar to Khawaja's? I thought both casts were land owners (meaning farmers). Btw I'm Arain.

 

[friendly_troll96]

To my understanding are Arain (Mian, Chaudhary) similar to Khawaja's? I thought both casts were land owners (meaning farmers). Btw I'm Arain.

@lastofthepatriots

 

[Kambojaric]

So if khawajas, Butts and Shaikhs are all kashmiris, who are the actual punjabis in Punjab?

Punjabis are a very loose group identified more by language than ancestry or blood. This is one of the reasons why groups from outside Punjab have generally settled down and merged within local structures very quickly. The most recent arrivals are Urdu speakers from UP/Delhi, but historically we have had Kashmiri migraiton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiris_of_Punjab), and also Baloch and Pashtun migrations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_of_Punjab), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathans_of_Punjab. I am from old Lahore and my paternal grandmothers family is from a Kashmiri background. One of my cousins is married to a Multani "pathan" (dont know which tribe, he told me but cant remember, ends with zai though of course haha). Further one of my aunts is married to an Urdu speaker. However growing up we never thought of these people as outsiders or different than us, primarily because language is the main identity marker, rather than tribe or blood.