Question: How will AVIC position Hongdu L-15B vs JF-17B?

[帅的一匹]

I have long advocate L-15 is in competition with JF-17.

But too many people don't believe it. JF-17 is a project wanted by PAF while L-15 is a project supported by PLAAF. L-15 already see customer with Zambia and serving in PLAAF.

While JF-17 claim to have secure export customer has yet it in other AF colors.

The best part is both planes are made by China. It is easy to see which plane will be more successful in export market. JF-17B might be moving at a slow place so that L-15 will be able to capture more customer before JF-17B is ready for export. The twin seat is a massive advantage compare to JF-17 for many small air force.

Myanmar airforce had placed order to buy 16 units of JF17 from Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

JF-17B is designed for War, L-15B for training.

 

[帅的一匹]

@Beast Don't be cocky boy.

JF-17B is designed for War, L-15B for training.

For me, L15b is an ultimate envolving Q5.

L15b will compete with Yk130.

 

[Beast]

Myanmar airforce had placed order to buy 16 units of JF17 from Pakistan.

Yes but Zambia already see color with L-15. Maybe by then Myanmar airforce received 16 JF-17, 50 L-15 already exported to Zambia, Tanzania and Venezuela.

It is a fact, L-15 is moving at a very faster pace including export compare to JF-17. As I already mention many small airforce prefer twin seat. JF-17b just made a maiden flight. No way it can compete with L-15 in securing export order in 3-4 years time.

@Beast Don't be cocky boy.


For me, L15b is an ultimate envolving Q5.

L15b will compete with Yk130.

I am not cocky, just stating behind curtain things that will never be mention openly. If you want to talk about cocky or claim ungrateful. Maybe you shall look at Zarvan and many Pakistanis behaviour of rubbishing China weapon product when we are lowering cost and supporting them in many projects and yet what we Chinese received is nothing but insult and biased opinion from them about inferior products. When they keep singing praise of US weapon which until now still sending drones killing muslim inside Pakistan. They are paying usd 20 million for per unit and they expect a f-22?

L-15 will eat into JF-17 market. In fact, JF-17 has no market in the first place. There is a reason why JF-17b is never in the drawboard for PAF when JF-17 is vision. Chinese purposely delay the twin seat while L-15 envision as a twin seat in the first place.

Look at J-10, a J-10s is quickly materialize when J-10a is acomplished.

 

[帅的一匹]

Yes but Zambia already see color with L-15. Maybe by then Myanmar airforce received 16 JF-17, 50 L-15 already exported to Zambia, Tanzania and Venezuela.

It is a fact, L-15 is moving at a very faster pace including export compare to JF-17. As I already mention many small airforce prefer twin seat. JF-17b just made a maiden flight. No way it can compete with L-15 in securing export order in 3-4 years time.


I am not cocky, just stating behind curtain things that will never be mention openly. If you want to talk about cocky or claim ungrateful. Maybe you shall look at Zarvan and many Pakistanis behaviour of rubbishing China weapon product when we are lowering cost and supporting them in many projects and yet what we Chinese received is nothing but insult and biased opinion from them about inferior products. When they keep singing praise of US weapon which until now still sending drones killing muslim inside Pakistan. They are paying usd 20 million for per unit and they expect a f-22?

L-15 will eat into JF-17 market. In fact, JF-17 has no market in the first place. There is a reason why JF-17b is never in the drawboard for PAF when JF-17 is vision. Chinese purposely delay the twin seat while L-15 envision as a twin seat in the first place.

Look at J-10, a J-10s is quickly materialize when J-10a is acomplished.

Man, please get a filter on those brain to mouth stuff.

Mr. Zarvan is just doing fine, I think he is just enthusiastic patriot. We have pre-set schedule with PAF of JF17b delivery, the claim of deliberate procrastination is totally making no sense at all. Like last time BilailKhan 777 has divergence with me at Chinese weapon quality, we figure it out in a nice way. Sometimes good medicine tastes bitter, it's the only way you can make progress. What's most important is, Our product is making huge progress. Again I want to say to you: Don't be cocky man.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

JF-17B appears to be more ready for Armed deployment fully functional Unit while the other is merely a Trainer

 

[SQ8]

Sir, for example, you will never find me making rubbish claims. I actually have MANY actual Chinese friends in real life and we talk frankly and openly. I know what common Chinese think about Pakistan etc. I thank you for openly presenting your views on the forum. Uncensored presentation of unbiased views is crucial to good discussion.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Oscar @Horus @araz @The Eagle can you guys please contribute to this thread or tah someone who is in a position to make a useful contribution?

Not much to contribute- the JF-17 was a fighter designed to specs approved by PAF and as a joint project. It project goal was to provide Pakistan a low cost multirole asset that it coukd keep flying under any diplomatic conditions to maintain minimum effective deterrent. The B model was never a factor until it dawned upon the export team that not all nations have the high standards or talent pool to send pilots to sims and then straight on their solo. The JF-17 is almost as easy to fly as the F-35 is- that aircraft will have no two seater and only sims for grads coming from the T-X. Same for the JF-17 was planned.
But since exporting was not really planned for properly, the B model was pushed into play.

So a two seater to a dedicated fighter.




The L-15 was designed from the start to be a fast jet trainer and LIFT. Armament capability was considered as a second role for it but it is designed for being a trainer.

A trainer.

Apples and oranges

 

[Genesis]

Sir, for example, you will never find me making rubbish claims. I actually have MANY actual Chinese friends in real life and we talk frankly and openly. I know what common Chinese think about Pakistan etc. I thank you for openly presenting your views on the forum. Uncensored presentation of unbiased views is crucial to good discussion.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Oscar @Horus @araz @The Eagle can you guys please contribute to this thread or tah someone who is in a position to make a useful contribution?

Look what Chinese think of Pakistan and what the government sees Pakistan as are two different thing. The fact of the matter now is Pakistan is a developing nation, and not on the cusp of being developed. It doesn't command admiration and confidence. However, that is the common people's view, because governments don't look for the same things, if they did I can swear to you France would have been nuked by America and Soviets 10 times before Eisenhower and Khrushchev ever took office.

Pakistan is a strategic partner of China, it is located in the crucial interest area of South Asia, why do you think CPEC is taking place in Pakistan and not Malwhothehellcares. China is not so flush with cash that 60 billion is nothing.

I personally, don't admire Pakistan, but on a professional level, Pakistan means more to China than the US of Fing A.

Now onto this topic, you have to look at it this way, there is no JF-17B, there is JF-17. There is L15. Anyone who buys a twin seater will most likely have 10 times the amount of single seaters at least. While L15, ideally, should not leave an institute.

The L-15 will be something to train new recruits, the JF15 twinseater will most likely be used for experienced pilots making the switch, or even combat missions, especially for a nation like Pakistan that has an established airforce. .

 

[Deino]

Guys, can we leave this discussion on Chinese-Pakistani friendship and "idiots" in all societies leave out of this discussion please ?!

Deino

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pretty decent trainer plane , and no hinges on it

 

[帅的一匹]

Pretty decent trainer plane , and no hinges on it

Nice try bro

 

[LookSee]

IMHO I think the JF-17B can't be compared with the L-15b, whole different beast. Also an important consideration about potential buyers is about building potential diplomatic and military leverages/bonds(can be either or both) JF-17b just doesn't have that going for it. The L-15b will be competing with the Yak-130/M-346 and the T-50/FA-50 and the next gen LIFT for the US in the market in the future.

 

[Beast]

IMHO I think the JF-17B can't be compared with the L-15b, whole different beast. Also an important consideration about potential buyers is about building potential diplomatic and military leverages/bonds(can be either or both) JF-17b just doesn't have that going for it. The L-15b will be competing with the Yak-130/M-346 and the T-50/FA-50 and the next gen LIFT for the US in the market in the future.

L-15B is a different league compare to Yak-130/M-346. Dont be fool by its trainer associate. Just like JMSDF called Hyuga as destroyer. L-15B is designed as a 1.4M supersonic fighter/trainer. I can bet it can pull the same high G as JF-17. It thrust power is even more powerful than JF-17 with very favourable range, payload. The only bad point abt L-15B will be the smaller nose cone which may house a smaller AESA/PESA compare to JF-17.

 

[Deino]

IMO the L-15A/B would be a nice option for Ukraine !

Even if surely bankrupt or broke I'm sure in mind of Ukraine's assistance in so many fields or military cooperation a favourable condition to sell it could be found !

 

[LookSee]

IMO the L-15A/B would be a nice option for Ukraine !

Even if surely bankrupt or broke I'm sure in mind of Ukraine's assistance in so many fields or military cooperation a favourable condition to sell it could be found !

Eh, do they even need one anytime soon? If the do I think they would go for a western aircraft due to changing geopolitics in their tension filled area.