Question: By law can an army officer ask civilian's CNIC in civilian area?

[iLION12345_1]

An army vehicle would not stop you and ask you for CNIC/ID if you did absolutely nothing. What would they get out of that anyways? Even if it’s a soldier trying to act big, it just makes no sense. (I’m not accusing or blaming you in any way, it just seems weird, or maybe it’s because I don’t have full context)

Either you did something, with or without realizing, or they were deployed there for relevant reasons.
If neither is the case (or even if it is the case and you feel that the officer/Soldier misbehaved with you) then forward a report to the Corps HQ, it will be dealt with seriously. There is accountability inside the army at least. You don’t even need the officer/soldiers name or rank or PA number, even if you have the vehicles number, it is enough identification. Regardless of what you did or didn’t do, if the officer is threatening you after the fact about being able to come to your house and whatnot, that’s enough of a reason to report him already. Just confirm that it is actually an officer/Army personnel before doing so.


To answer you original question:
Rangers Can do that. Police can do that. Army can only do that unless deployed there for relevant reasons (if there is meant to be any sort of movement of troops, weapons, VVIPs in that area, as mentioned by other users before, you can read all that.)
they can not just perform a traffic stop and ask you for your ID while they and you are both just traveling from point A-B.

But I would suggest that unless an army personnel acts aggressively towards you, there’s nothing wrong with showing identification to them. You never know that they might be deployed in the area for proper reasons;

As an example I have seen a joint ANF and army team stopping vehicles in the middle of a motorway once to check them, Since the ANF is there you can simply guess why.

 

[notorious_eagle]

An army officer is abusing me for saying this. He is saying the constituion doesn't apply to army. He is saying army can search any one, can enter any house. Should i report him to FIA cyberwing? All i said army can't ask a civilian's cnic in civilian domain.

Do you know what Unit he is in? If yes then contact their Unit and try to get in touch with the CO. The Army takes these accusations very very seriously.

Tagging @PanzerKiel to further guide/assist you

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Rangers acting under special powers can require identification.

Army deployed on check posts or security details during emergency situations can ask for ID.

However, the Army in peacetime doesn't have LE powers unless granted by the Govt.


You can write a letter to the relevant Corps HQ, if you have any form of evidence.

"motorway"

 

[Mentee]

Question 2: Or it was a VVIP movement and you acted indifferently to the gestures or warnings issued by the protocol staff?

We've got rotory wing aircrafts for that purpose. just off load the schizophrenic garbage,well in most cases, and then fly away ------- why put any citizen's life in jeopardy ?

 

[HttpError]

Not sure about Pakistan but in any civilized country even Normal Police don't have a right to demand information if that person hasn't committed any crime (They have to prove in court that they committed a crime).

By law, in the US you don't have to provide even your Name or DOB to Police unless you committed a crime (Officer needs to prove this in the court of law).

However, in Pakistan, even a Government clerk can demand anything from you.

 

[RedHulk]

None of you read the post properly. This question is based on a discussion on public forum more like on facebook thats why i mentioned FIA ( Cyberwing ) obviously cyberwing don't register cases regarding motorway. As i clearly said "Lets Just Say" it was a hypothetical scenario created to get answer for a Valid Question about our constitutional right of civilians and domain of army. There is nothing wrong in discussing a valid question.
Also as i mentioned what that officer/soldier was saying is that they have jurisdiction to enter any home or ask any one CNIC even without the authorization of federal govt.

can you share the name & rank of the Army officer along with which unit he belongs to? pics or videos of this officer harassing you perhaps since everyone has smart phones & access to social media these days. otherwise I'm calling this a bullshit thread created to spread hatred & animosity against our military personnel...
also, a large number of fakers have been arrested over the last 2 years who were masquerading as army officers sporting army uniforms, some even claimed to be ISI officers...

Asking a valid question isn't about creating hate among army and civilians but to make things clear. Plus no one likes to get abused for saying the right thing. I have taken screenshots of the discussion. even one of them sent his audio msg in my inbox. That behavior of those 2 soldier/officers made me create this post. If you want i can share the discussion here but that abusive words they used will create the real hate if i share those pics. I think you are a senior member and will be the judge. Let me inbox you and you tell me should a person get abused just for saving army can't ask for CNIC in civilian area without the authorization of federal govt.

 

[RedHulk]

As an example I have seen a joint ANF and army team stopping vehicles in the middle of a motorway once to check them, Since the ANF is there you can simply guess why.

ANF have authority for random checkup on any road they are deployed to. I have happily allowed them to search my vehicle on mulitple times as it is their duty. but as i mentioned i was asking about the legal domain which i was being abused for saying that they don't have it without the authorization of federal govt.

 

[RedHulk]

I don't want any trouble for anyone thats why i blured his name. This question is valid as you can read how much law he knows about and how much he wants to follow if his seniors give him freehand.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Not sure about Pakistan but in any civilized country even Normal Police don't have a right to demand information if that person hasn't committed any crime (They have to prove in court that they committed a crime).

By law, in the US you don't have to provide even your Name or DOB to Police unless you committed a crime (Officer needs to prove this in the court of law).

However, in Pakistan, even a Government clerk can demand anything from you.

I don't think they need to *prove* you've committed a crime, but they need *reasonable grounds* to *suspect* you have committed a crime or are about to. Certainly in UK, that is the case:
"The police can stop and question you at any time - they can search you depending on the situation.
A police community support officer (PCSO) must be in uniform when they stop and question you. A police officer doesn’t always have to be in uniform but if they’re not wearing uniform they must show you their warrant card.


Stop and question: police powers
A police officer might stop you and ask:

what your name is
what you’re doing in the area
where you’re going
You don’t have to stop or answer any questions. If you don’t and there’s no other reason to suspect you, then this alone can’t be used as a reason to search or arrest you.

Stop and search: police powers
A police officer has powers to stop and search you if they have ‘reasonable grounds’ to suspect you’re carrying:

illegal drugs
a weapon
stolen property
something which could be used to commit a crime, such as a crowbar

You can only be stopped and searched without reasonable grounds if it has been approved by a senior police officer. This can happen if it is suspected that:

serious violence could take place
you’re carrying a weapon or have used one
you’re in a specific location or area"

 

[Caprxl]

An army officer is abusing me for saying this. He is saying the constituion doesn't apply to army. He is saying army can search any one, can enter any house. Should i report him to FIA cyberwing? All i said army can't ask a civilian's cnic in civilian domain.

Report him

View attachment 708118
I don't want any trouble for anyone thats why i blured his name. This question is valid as you can read how much law he knows about and how much he wants to follow if his seniors give him freehand.

This screen shot, the mater written in it, it is the Drop Scene (am not blaming you or saying you fabricated it).

"We killed dozens in Waziristan just for not showing CNIC" .

This above is the anticlimax

Report the account to FIA asap, I even doubt if the account is even being operated from within Pakistan or outside. If you personally know the guy/guys, then definitely from in land. Even if the guys are legit uniformed persons, the above was give away that they are way out of their path. Therefore, Report it in any case, & lastly,

We still do not know the authenticity of your claim, it could be fabricated by you (not saying you have done it) but until unless you do not prove your claim, we cannot be sure.

Regards,

 

[Amaa'n]

I am asking a very serious question "By law can an army officer ask a civilian for his/her CNIC for identity verification in civilian area where the officer have no legal mendate from federal govt ? Lets just say a civilian is traveling on motorway and an army vehicle overtake it and tell it to stop and search his/her vehicle and ask for CNIC from civilian. Is the civilian have right to refuse to provide the CNIC and refuse to let them search the vehicle? If army officer have the right to ask can someone please provide me a legal refference in this regard. I am asking this cause there is a huge confusion in people's mind that army have right to stop and search civilian anywhere where there is not a legal mandate authorized by federal govt. As far i know this mandate is belong to police only as per the constituion.

It depends on the area where you are located or traveling.
If you are in a Cantt area & passing through JCP (Joint Checkpost), where Military is deployed along Provincial Police then they are legally covered under the directives. Speaking from personal experience, Military personnel at the JCP will not search your car nor verify the CNIC but will ask you to turn into a Secondary Screening lane where a Police ASI / Constable will verify the Identity & if required will search the vehicle.

Lets take another case here - During election days, Military was given additional charge where they had same powers as District Magistrate hence giving them the authority to stop vehicle & search. So if you were to be stopped during those days then Military had the mandate for doing so.

Coming down to CAF - Civil Armed Forces, they are deployed in various cities across Pakistan i.e Islamabad, Karachi, & various districts of Balochistan. They are deployed by Federal Govt or District Administration in exercise of powers conferred under Article 245 of the Constitution, armed forces in aid of the civil authorities. They will have same powers as of a Police officer....

It is possible that when you were stopped Military officers were deployed in aid of Civil Administration, it is also possible that military personnel were part of a raiding party & needed to ensure that you were not the intended target .....

@PanzerKiel - I hope i got the above correctly - please correct me if i have added something wrong

 

[doorstar]

View attachment 708118
I don't want any trouble for anyone thats why i blured his name. This question is valid as you can read how much law he knows about and how much he wants to follow if his seniors give him freehand.

this here "tweet" looks like a fragrant bharati wrote it, note the bobs and vegana accent and the outlandish claim (read:false allegation)

I could have done a better one for you using MS Paint

 

[Caprxl]

It depends on the area where you are located or traveling.
If you are in a Cantt area & passing through JCP (Joint Checkpost), where Military is deployed along Provincial Police then they are legally covered under the directives. Speaking from personal experience, Military personnel at the JCP will not search your car nor verify the CNIC but will ask you to turn into a Secondary Screening lane where a Police ASI / Constable will verify the Identity & if required will search the vehicle.

Lets take another case here - During election days, Military was given additional charge where they had same powers as District Magistrate hence giving them the authority to stop vehicle & search. So if you were to be stopped during those days then Military had the mandate for doing so.

Coming down to CAF - Civil Armed Forces, they are deployed in various cities across Pakistan i.e Islamabad, Karachi, & various districts of Balochistan. They are deployed by Federal Govt or District Administration in exercise of powers conferred under Article 245 of the Constitution, armed forces in aid of the civil authorities. They will have same powers as of a Police officer....

It is possible that when you were stopped Military officers were deployed in aid of Civil Administration, it is also possible that military personnel were part of a raiding party & needed to ensure that you were not the intended target .....

@PanzerKiel - I hope i got the above correctly - please correct me if i have added something wrong

& what about the following screen shot

View attachment 708118
I don't want any trouble for anyone thats why i blured his name. This question is valid as you can read how much law he knows about and how much he wants to follow if his seniors give him freehand.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am asking a very serious question "By law can an army officer ask a civilian for his/her CNIC for identity verification in civilian area where the officer have no legal mendate from federal govt ? Lets just say a civilian is traveling on motorway and an army vehicle overtake it and tell it to stop and search his/her vehicle and ask for CNIC from civilian. Is the civilian have right to refuse to provide the CNIC and refuse to let them search the vehicle? If army officer have the right to ask can someone please provide me a legal refference in this regard. I am asking this cause there is a huge confusion in people's mind that army have right to stop and search civilian anywhere where there is not a legal mandate authorized by federal govt. As far i know this mandate is belong to police only as per the constituion.

Short Answer Never.
he has no such authority,

unless if he is on official law and order duty in uniform and deputed to assist the civilian administration or civilian government.

Rangers acting under special powers can require identification.

Army deployed on check posts or security details during emergency situations can ask for ID.

However, the Army in peacetime doesn't have LE powers unless granted by the Govt.


You can write a letter to the relevant Corps HQ, if you have any form of evidence.

nicely explained sir

 

[Amaa'n]

View attachment 708118
I don't want any trouble for anyone thats why i blured his name. This question is valid as you can read how much law he knows about and how much he wants to follow if his seniors give him freehand.

probably not even a solider - fake account