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Quad push against China ? who will be Chinese counter Allies

maverick1977

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Hong Kong (CNN)US President Joe Biden's administration entered the White House this year aiming to unite allies in efforts to contain China's territorial claims across the Indo-Pacific.
On Friday, Biden takes his biggest step toward that goal so far, bringing together a virtual gathering for leaders of the Quad -- the loose alliance of the United States, Japan, India and Australia that Beijing has called emblematic of a "poisonous" Cold War mentality.
Washington said Covid-19, economic cooperation, and the climate crisis will be topics of discussion on Friday, while New Delhi said its Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, would be discussing a "free and open Indo-Pacific" with Biden, Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

US President Joe Biden.
Absent from those statements was any mention of China. But it was the rise of the Asian economic and military superpower that led to the Quad's revival in 2017 -- and it's Beijing's power plays that keep the bloc's four leaders up at night heading into the summit.


The Quad, or Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, is an informal strategic forum, featuring semi-regular summits, information exchanges and military drills. While not a formal military alliance like the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), it is seen by some as a potential counterweight to growing Chinese influence and alleged aggression in Asia-Pacific.
While members have emphasized the more benign aspects of the relationship, such as recent cooperation on the coronavirus pandemic, the potential for military encirclement by the Quad countries has not gone unnoticed by Beijing.
And it's no wonder.
US Navy Adm. Philip Davidson, the head of the US military's Indo-Pacific Command, on Tuesday called the Quad grouping a "diamond of democracies" in the Indo-Pacific.
Davidson said Tuesday he hoped the organization could "build into something bigger."
"Not in terms of security alone, but in terms of how we might approach ... the global economy, critical technologies like telecommunications and 5G, collaboration on the international order. Just much to be done diplomatically and economically," he said.



See massive US-Japan military exercise kick off 01:14
Four keys for the Quad
Writing in Foreign Policy this week, four fellows at the conservative Hoover Institution at Stanford University, including former US Defense Secretary James Mattis, said the Quad can play an important role in four key areas going forward: maritime security, supply chain security, technology and diplomacy.
In maritime security, the Quad members can bring substantial naval assets that can help the US Navy counter China's shipbuilding surge, which has given it the world's largest fleet. India, for example, has an aircraft carrier; Japan has a fleet of quality destroyers and submarines.
On supply security, the Hoover fellows argue that the industrial and manufacturing bases of the four large Quad economies can be leveraged to end advantages held by China in areas like medical supplies and pharmaceuticals that some allege have been problematic during the pandemic.
On technology, Quad members need to pool resources to provide information security and develop new systems that don't require Chinese hardware or software that might present security risks, they say.


And on diplomacy, the Hoover fellows say Japan, India and Australia maintain more influence and deeper relations with countries around the Indo-Pacific than the US now wields.
"Many countries in the region, especially Southeast Asia, will likely welcome the closer cooperation among the Quad members to balance against China's power," said Timothy Heath, senior analyst at the RAND Corp think tank.
There's no guarantees any of this will happen, however. Remember, the first incarnation of the Quad wilted and cracked under pressure from China in 2007. China portrayed the organization as an attempt to encircle it and the possibility that Beijing could retaliate economically had the three US partners backing away from any strong positions.
If the Quad tries to rein in China now, expect Beijing to retaliate, experts say.
"It will likely bring more tensions with China, including the possibility of economic retaliation against India, Australia, and Japan," Heath said.
That could prove difficult for all three. For each, China is the largest trading partner

Rare footage shows US patrol of South China Sea 02:56
Comfort for Beijing
But RAND analyst Heath points out that the Quad is far from a united front. Fissures between the members can be places of comfort for China, he said.
"It remains an informal gathering, with very little institutional backbone. In this sense, the Quad is most definitely not an 'Asian NATO,'" he said, referring to the formal Western alliance that stood fast against the Soviet Union in the Cold War.
"The Quad members may share concern about China and about the need to uphold a rules-based order, but they also lack consensus on what to do about China. The priorities differ among members, with India mostly focused on the Indian Ocean while Australia and Japan are more concerned about the South China Sea," Heath said.
And, to use a sports analogy, Beijing controls the tempo of the game right now, he added.
"If China steps up its military aggression against other countries, there is a possibility that the Quad could evolve into a more robust military alliance," said Heath.
But so long as China avoids confrontation, experts believe this potential will remain low -- a view shared by many in official Chinese circles, too.
Chinese state-owned newspaper the Global Times dismissed the grouping as an "empty talk club" in a report earlier this month. Citing experts, the report suggested that the framework of the group was flimsy and symbolic, and would ultimately come to nothing.
CNN's James Griffiths contributed to this report.
 
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The Quad is not anti-Russia. What would Russia gain by joining this opposite team?
It would lose its big weapons buyer India in the process.
 
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at this point only Pakistan and NK only as China's core ally, and it's global impact will be minimal.

Iran, Syria, Cuba , Venezuela are broke and Belarus is a landlocked country.
 
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China, Russia, Pakistan, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Serbia, Syria, Iran, Belarus, called the Ten Nations Alliance

NO. if you want definite allies of China is North Korea, Pakistan and Singepore these who could intervene in a war. In North Korea I think they could join China in all military conflicts in the future, where as with Pakistan politics align on India and Pakistan will join china on the Indian front and Singepore can help with finance, media propaganda and sea piracy..

But there are some countries that could change sides down the line Vietnam and South Korea could join the Chinese axis in the future but with Japan it is unlikely
 
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How about Central Asian State, all -Stans, including Turkey. That will be a formidable block. and besides NK, which other ASEAN country will land into chinese side? Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia ?
 
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The Quad is not anti-Russia. What would Russia gain by joining this opposite team?
It would lose its big weapons buyer India in the process.

Russia loses nothing.

It is India which will lose access weapons like S-500, Nuke Subs etc. by joining a group called Quad.
 
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How about Central Asian State, all -Stans, including Turkey. That will be a formidable block. and besides NK, which other ASEAN country will land into chinese side? Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia ?
Central Asian state is under Russian hegemony, pulling them from Russian orbit will backfire for China.
Turkey has it's own problem in the Mediteranean, and they're NATO member. Turkey despise what China did to the Turkic population in Xinjiang.

and for the 100000th time, Indonesia and Malaysia will not enter any military alliance, certainly not with China which it has maritime dispute and historic enmity especially between Indonesia and China.
 
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Hong Kong (CNN)US President Joe Biden's administration entered the White House this year aiming to unite allies in efforts to contain China's territorial claims across the Indo-Pacific.
On Friday, Biden takes his biggest step toward that goal so far, bringing together a virtual gathering for leaders of the Quad -- the loose alliance of the United States, Japan, India and Australia that Beijing has called emblematic of a "poisonous" Cold War mentality.
Washington said Covid-19, economic cooperation, and the climate crisis will be topics of discussion on Friday, while New Delhi said its Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, would be discussing a "free and open Indo-Pacific" with Biden, Japanese Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga and Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

US President Joe Biden.
Absent from those statements was any mention of China. But it was the rise of the Asian economic and military superpower that led to the Quad's revival in 2017 -- and it's Beijing's power plays that keep the bloc's four leaders up at night heading into the summit.


The Quad, or Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, is an informal strategic forum, featuring semi-regular summits, information exchanges and military drills. While not a formal military alliance like the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), it is seen by some as a potential counterweight to growing Chinese influence and alleged aggression in Asia-Pacific.
While members have emphasized the more benign aspects of the relationship, such as recent cooperation on the coronavirus pandemic, the potential for military encirclement by the Quad countries has not gone unnoticed by Beijing.
And it's no wonder.
US Navy Adm. Philip Davidson, the head of the US military's Indo-Pacific Command, on Tuesday called the Quad grouping a "diamond of democracies" in the Indo-Pacific.
Davidson said Tuesday he hoped the organization could "build into something bigger."
"Not in terms of security alone, but in terms of how we might approach ... the global economy, critical technologies like telecommunications and 5G, collaboration on the international order. Just much to be done diplomatically and economically," he said.



See massive US-Japan military exercise kick off 01:14
Four keys for the Quad
Writing in Foreign Policy this week, four fellows at the conservative Hoover Institution at Stanford University, including former US Defense Secretary James Mattis, said the Quad can play an important role in four key areas going forward: maritime security, supply chain security, technology and diplomacy.
In maritime security, the Quad members can bring substantial naval assets that can help the US Navy counter China's shipbuilding surge, which has given it the world's largest fleet. India, for example, has an aircraft carrier; Japan has a fleet of quality destroyers and submarines.
On supply security, the Hoover fellows argue that the industrial and manufacturing bases of the four large Quad economies can be leveraged to end advantages held by China in areas like medical supplies and pharmaceuticals that some allege have been problematic during the pandemic.
On technology, Quad members need to pool resources to provide information security and develop new systems that don't require Chinese hardware or software that might present security risks, they say.


And on diplomacy, the Hoover fellows say Japan, India and Australia maintain more influence and deeper relations with countries around the Indo-Pacific than the US now wields.
"Many countries in the region, especially Southeast Asia, will likely welcome the closer cooperation among the Quad members to balance against China's power," said Timothy Heath, senior analyst at the RAND Corp think tank.
There's no guarantees any of this will happen, however. Remember, the first incarnation of the Quad wilted and cracked under pressure from China in 2007. China portrayed the organization as an attempt to encircle it and the possibility that Beijing could retaliate economically had the three US partners backing away from any strong positions.
If the Quad tries to rein in China now, expect Beijing to retaliate, experts say.
"It will likely bring more tensions with China, including the possibility of economic retaliation against India, Australia, and Japan," Heath said.
That could prove difficult for all three. For each, China is the largest trading partner

Rare footage shows US patrol of South China Sea 02:56
Comfort for Beijing
But RAND analyst Heath points out that the Quad is far from a united front. Fissures between the members can be places of comfort for China, he said.
"It remains an informal gathering, with very little institutional backbone. In this sense, the Quad is most definitely not an 'Asian NATO,'" he said, referring to the formal Western alliance that stood fast against the Soviet Union in the Cold War.
"The Quad members may share concern about China and about the need to uphold a rules-based order, but they also lack consensus on what to do about China. The priorities differ among members, with India mostly focused on the Indian Ocean while Australia and Japan are more concerned about the South China Sea," Heath said.
And, to use a sports analogy, Beijing controls the tempo of the game right now, he added.
"If China steps up its military aggression against other countries, there is a possibility that the Quad could evolve into a more robust military alliance," said Heath.
But so long as China avoids confrontation, experts believe this potential will remain low -- a view shared by many in official Chinese circles, too.
Chinese state-owned newspaper the Global Times dismissed the grouping as an "empty talk club" in a report earlier this month. Citing experts, the report suggested that the framework of the group was flimsy and symbolic, and would ultimately come to nothing.
CNN's James Griffiths contributed to this report.


Quad is a group of losers and who are afraid to take on china even as a group.
Central Asian state is under Russian hegemony, pulling them from Russian orbit will backfire for China.
Turkey has it's own problem in the Mediteranean, and they're NATO member. Turkey despise what China did to the Turkic population in Xinjiang.

and for the 100000th time, Indonesia and Malaysia will not enter any military alliance, certainly not with China which it has maritime dispute and historic enmity especially between Indonesia and China.

Central Asia is fully under Chinese control.

Russia is a junior partner of China in SCO.
 
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Central Asian state is under Russian hegemony, pulling them from Russian orbit will backfire for China.
Turkey has it's own problem in the Mediteranean, and they're NATO member. Turkey despise what China did to the Turkic population in Xinjiang.

and for the 100000th time, Indonesia and Malaysia will not enter any military alliance, certainly not with China which it has maritime dispute and historic enmity especially between Indonesia and China.

I don't think these states will enter an alliance with China but you are saying alot of bs in one post. The Turkic states are allied with turkey and have defensive treaties with it. Just because they speak Russian and trade with Russia doesn't mean they share same politics or under Russian political sphere? Just look at Azerbaijan which is one of the turkic states? It has policies aligned with Turkey.

The Uighur propaganda is pushed by people who don't even like the Uighur as political tool that really don't work.

Malaysia and Indonesia won't either join in such alliance as they will take non-alignment approach. But stop the BS in order to undermine China you can do it correctly instead
 
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Central Asia is fully under Chinese control.
Russia is a junior partner of China in SCO.
that's why Russia will not ever be part of China's equivalent of QUAD, they would not want be second fiddle to China.

and even if you say so, Central Asian state has very little impact on the world geopolitics.
I don't think these states will enter an alliance with China but you are saying alot of bs in one post. The Turkic states are allied with turkey and have defensive treaties with it. Just because they speak Russian and trade with Russia doesn't mean they share same politics.

The Uighur propaganda is pushed by people who don't even like the Uighur as political tool that really don't work.

Malaysia and Indonesia won't either join in such alliance as they will take non-alignment approach. But stop the BS in order to undermine you can do it correctly instead
which Turkic state has a formal alliance with Turkey?? most of them are subordinate to moscow, from economies to arms.

in short, China has no equivalent to the QUAD, no matter how many states you enlist here. it just don't have the geopolitical weight and importance.

I remember a thread made here by some pro CCP Indonesians about China's victory in UN human rights convention of some sort, after reading the lists of country supporting China I can't stop myself from laughing.
 
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that's why Russia will not ever be part of China's equivalent of QUAD, they would not want be second fiddle to China.

and even if you say so, Central Asian state has very little impact on the world geopolitics.

LoL Central Asia connects to China to Iran, Turkiye, Europe. This is through where all modern silk(OBOR) routes to the West go through.

Russia has NO choice but to be a junior partner to China.

Russia is not USSR.
 
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that's why Russia will not ever be part of China's equivalent of QUAD, they would not want be second fiddle to China.

and even if you say so, Central Asian state has very little impact on the world geopolitics.

which Turkic state has a formal alliance with Turkey?? most of them are subordinate to moscow, from economies to arms.

in short, China has no equivalent to the QUAD, no matter how many states you enlist here. it just don't have the geopolitical weight and importance.

I remember a thread made here by some pro CCP Indonesians about China's victory in UN human rights convention of some sort, after reading the lists of country supporting China I can't stop myself from laughing.

Azerbaijan Seizing Nagorno-Karapabk was not in Russia's interest and didn't want that to happen? Does that strike you as subordinate just because I trade with you doesn't mean I am married to you and we **** every night. They have their own set of geo-political goals don't mix milk and water cause they can't be mixed. Who is backing who in Nagorno-Karabakh? when you find that out you will know that they differ on policies.

All these central-stans have their own different geo-politics and trade now more with China then Russia there is benefit there and go where there is benefit out of interests. But when it comes to their geo-politics they differ.
 
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