Qarardad-e-Maqasid: Similarities & Differences between Pakistan and Israel

[Riyadh Haque]

Comparing the foundational ideas of Pakistan & Israel

Israel was created as a homeland for the persecuted Jews of the world. It was argued that being a minority in all countries of the world, the Jews had been reduced to second-class status in political, economic, cultural and social matters. Israel was then created as the one, unique country that would act as a safe haven for all Jews all over the world who faced, or may face, discrimination or persecution.

Similarly, Pakistan was created as a homeland for the Muslims of India. It was argued that being a minority in Unified India, the Muslims would be reduced to second-class status in political, economic, cultural and social matters. Pakistan was then created as the one, unique country that would act as a safe haven for all the Muslims of Unified India who faced, or may face, discrimination or marginalization.

Up to this point, it seems that Pakistan & Israel are quite similar in their Foundational Story (Qarardad-e-Maqasid) or their Raison d'être.

But then the similarity collapses.

For example, even today, Israel absolutely guarantees to all Jews all over the world the immediate and unquestioned right to immigrate to Israel and claim citizenship.

Pakistan, however, quickly closed its borders for the Muslims of India in 1951!
THE SLOGAN OF TWO-NATION THEORY WAS RAISED TO DECEIVE THE ONE HUNDRED MILLION MUSLIMS OF THE SUBCONTINENT - ALTAF HUSSAIN

But what does this mean?

If we close our doors to our fellow Indian-Muslims living in India, then why was Pakistan created? Who are we? Aren't we the same Indian-Muslims for whom Quaid-e-Azam said that he was creating Pakistan? About whom was our Quaid-e-Azam speaking when he said "Muslims of India"?

What would the Quaid have thought if he were to come back and see that we have closed our doors to his fellow Gujarati Muslims living in Hindu-majority Gujarat? What about the suffering of our fellow Indian-Muslims in Tamil Nadu? What about the Bihari Muslims who want to come to Pakistan, where their mother tongue is the National Language? Why do we say "NO" to them?

Yes, I admit that some Muslims may be doing well in India, but yet others may face discrimination at the hands of the Hindutva fanatics. Some may live well in posh areas, but others might be refused housing for being Muslims. Some may be in positions of power, but other face brutal treatment in India's Abu Ghraibs. Some may be well integrated, but others might live in apartheid-like ghettos. Some may be beloved stars, but others might be shunned and despised. Some may be considered National Heroes, but others might be suspected of being terrorists.

But wasn't Pakistan created for precisely this lesser-section amongst Indian Muslims who are downtrodden, oppressed, discriminated, shunned, and treated like outcastes, worse-than-untouchables?

Looking at the Israeli case again, we can see that there are certainly plenty of Jews who live outside Israel (65% of Jews in the world are citizens of states other than Israel). But IF they were very unhappy or downtrodden or felt discriminated-against, they could immediately, unconditionally & automatically emmigrate to Israel, as it is the unique homeland specifically created as a safe-haven for the World's Jews.

So why is Pakistan not like that for India's Muslims for whom it was created as a Safe-Haven? Why do we let our fellow Indian-Muslims trapped in second-class status continue to suffer in India? Why do we not open our doors and our hearts and receive them with open arms? If they were to ask as to why they cannot immigrate to Pakistan when Pakistan was created as a homeland for India's Muslims, what shall we tell them? Did our Quaid lie to them? Or did someone else toss-out his theories upon his death and change the raison d'être of Pakistan? And if so, what is the raison d'être of Pakistan now?

Am I the only one who wonders about this?

I welcome thoughtful comments and opinions. No meaningless vomiting, please. Thank you.

 

[Icewolf]

Hundreds of Muslims still come into Pakistan from Wagah

 

[SamranAli]

i think we have forgotten for what Pakistan created and inresult we lag behind, where as Israelies dont.

 

[EjazR]

If you want to listen to the truth, then the reality is that no Indian Muslim would want to leave India and come to Pakistan. Even those Muslims who went from East Punjab to West Punjab during the partition or the non-Muslims who went the other way, were mostly FORCED to do so. They did not want to go voluntarily but the environment was such that there was an ethnic clensing of sorts on both sides of the Punjab border.

There are other people like Biharis in Bangladesh who have been waiting to go to Pakistan with no help from GoP. Maybe the efforts can focus on them.

But the best way ahead would be stop the pretence of Islam/Defender of Muslims=Pakistan. It never was before and it should'nt be expected to be done now. Focus on local ethnic and religious pluralism. A Sindhi Hindu should be much more important for the Pakistani state than and Indian Muslim who is not a citizen of Pakistan. Are non-Muslims in Pakistan being given equal oppurtunity and freedom to practice their faith? Are ethnic minorities in Pakistan free to practice their cultural and promote their language? Focus on these questions rather than going back to the past.

You should try to NOT be like Israel rather than BECOME like Israel. Atleast on the aspect of being a monochromatic society of being only "Jewish" or in this case only "Muslim"

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Hundreds of Muslims still come into Pakistan from Wagah

Icewolf,

If you read the article I posted from the Muhajir Party, it says clearly that Pakistan does not grant immigration rights to Indian Muslims. A few hundred Indian Muslims may come over the border, but our government treats them as Indian Citizens and they are expected to go back to India. As per the article, our country stopped accepting Indian Muslim immigrants in 1951, and the general influx of the "muhajirs" stopped at that time. There may have been be a few special cases of family-sponsored selective immigration for a few years more, but after 1965 even that was stopped.

So Pakistan does not view India's Muslims in the same way as Israel views the World's Jewish Diaspora.

If you want to listen to the truth, then the reality is that no Indian Muslim would want to leave India and come to Pakistan.

EjazR,

There are 200-250 million Muslims in India.

Are you claiming to speak for each one of them? How would you know what every individual or family might want or not want in a group of that size.

If you are saying that you and a few of your friends, relative, acquaintances do not wish to leave India and emigrate to Pakistan-- I can understand and accept that.

But it is a bit of a stretch for you to claim to know (and speak for) the wishes & desires of 200-250 million peoples spread out all over India, speaking a variety of languages and living in numerous sub-cultures.

 

[kingkobra]

Yes, I admit that some Muslims may be doing well in India, but yet others may face discrimination at the hands of the Hindutva fanatics. Some may live well in posh areas, but others might be refused housing for being Muslims. Some may be in positions of power, but other face brutal treatment in India's Abu Ghraibs. Some may be well integrated, but others might live in apartheid-like ghettos. Some may be beloved stars, but others might be shunned and despised. Some may be considered National Heroes, but others might be suspected of being terrorists.




I welcome thoughtful comments and opinions. No meaningless vomiting, please. Thank you.

with reference to the highlighted part I have just one question...Are all muslims in pakistan doing well?

 

[Icewolf]

Muslims in Pakistan as a whole are doing much better than Indian Muslims.

 

[kingkobra]

Muslims in Pakistan as a whole are doing much better than Indian Muslims.

completely baseless sentence.

 

[EjazR]

@Riyadh Haque

Being born and growing up in India and around Indians mostly Muslims for the past 2+ decades would I think entitle me to have a better idea of public opinion among Indian Muslims. I am from Hyderabad, so I can certainly say this about Hyderabad and adjoining south Indian Muslims like in Bangalore e.t.c that this would be the case.

And according to the Indian cesus and population projections, the population would be around 180 million for Muslims in India. But in any case, thats not the point really. I don't want to go into details of basics between two countries like security, per capita income, literacy rates, graduates % e.t.c which I have done earlier.

What you need to understand is that there are two different aspects here.
(1) Comparing Indian Muslim status to muslims in other countries including Pakistan and even some other Arab countries (not all), we are doing quite well.
(2) Compared to Indian Muslim status within India we are "on average" not doing well and are below average.

Just because (2) is true doesn't imply that (1) is false. Minorities anywhere in the world are usually are at a disadvantageous position and the same is true in India and hence there is grass roots effort and struggle to improve the socio-economic indicators of backward Muslims. Just like there are efforts and programs to improve the indicators for Dalits, Tribal and Other backward classes groups.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

with reference to the highlighted part I have just one question...Are all muslims in pakistan doing well?

King Kobra,

I think you missed my point altogether.

You could say the same of Israel. After all, not all Jews in Israel are doing well. Some are poor, some are from fringe sects that face ostracism by the majority sects, some are lazy, some are criminal and so on. But that does not change the basic fact that Israel was founded a safe-haven for the Jews scattered around the world who might face discrimination and persecution at the hands of non-jewish majorities in those countries.

So, yes, there are plenty of Muslims who are not doing well in Pakistan. But they are not facing discrimination or marginalization at the hands of non-Muslims. The parallel with Israel (the subject of this post) is exact.

 

[Leader]

If we close our doors to our fellow Indian-Muslims living in India, then why was Pakistan created? Who are we? Aren't we the same Indian-Muslims for whom Quaid-e-Azam said that he was creating Pakistan? About whom was our Quaid-e-Azam speaking when he said "Muslims of India"?

there is this thing called "philosophical history", a perspective invented by Ibn-e-Khaldun which suggests that history be seen in its context and time line, not through mere questions arising in one's mind---

point being Not everything arising in your mind is a valid question, so all what one can do to thread like this is say Biitcch Please !!

 

[kingkobra]

King Kobra,

I think you missed my point altogether.

You could say the same of Israel. After all, not all Jews in Israel are doing well. Some are poor, some are from fringe sects that face ostracism by the majority sects, some are lazy, some are criminal and so on. But that does not change the basic fact that Israel was founded a safe-haven for the Jews scattered around the world who might face discrimination and persecution at the hands of non-jewish majorities in those countries.

So, yes, there are plenty of Muslims who are not doing well in Pakistan. But they are not facing discrimination or marginalization at the hands of non-Muslims. The parallel with Israel (the subject of this post) is exact.

but they are facing discrimination in hands of fellow muslims on the basis of sects or language etc etc...i think post #9 by EjazR sir explains everything that I would not be able to put in words..

 

[Riyadh Haque]

Muslims in Pakistan as a whole are doing much better than Indian Muslims.

Icewolf,

This is my point exactly.

If Muslims in Pakistan are doing better than the Muslims in India, the Jews in Israel are doing better than the Jews in Poland/Ukraine.

The difference is that the Jews of Israel are ready to welcome the Jews of Poland/Ukraine with open arms and open hearts and to share the properity of Israel with them. They do this precisely because they know that Israel was created as a safe-haven for the Jews of the world who might be marginalized as minorities in other countries.

So why don't our properous Pakistani people want to share their prosperity with Indian Muslims who might wish to immigrate to Pakistan? Was it not (similar to Israel) created as a safe-haven for India's Muslims? Why should they be shut out in such a mean fashion? Can you imagine the Jews of Israel behaving in this cold manner to fellow non-Israeli Jews?

The objective of this thread is to ask: If Pakistan was created by the Quaid specifically as a homeland for India's Muslims in 1947, what has changed since then? When did this change happen? Who was responsible for making this change? What was the reasoning or logic behind this change? Did the Quaid (a Gujarati Himself) himself want to shut the door on India's Muslims? Or was it someone else who slammed the door after his death? Who was (or were) this person (or people) who made this decision? Was it debated in the Assembly? Did the Newspapers like the Nawa-i-Waqt run editorials about this decision?

As you can see, the questions are many-- but the answers are few.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

but they are facing discrimination in hands of fellow muslims on the basis of sects or language etc etc...i think post #9 by EjazR sir explains everything that I would not be able to put in words..

Again, you missed my point.

Israel has the very problems you mention. Ashkenazi Jews look down on Sephardim Jews. Ashenazi+Sephardim look down on Mizrahi Jews. And everybody discriminates against the Ethopian Jews, who disproportionally fill the Jails of Israel. But this does not change the fact that Israel is still a safe-haven for the Jewish minorities of the World and will take Jewish Immigrants freely.

So yes, pakistan also has the problems you mention. Punjabis look down upon Sindhis & Balochis. Sunnis look down upon Shia. And Everybody discriminates against the Ahmadis. But, unlike Israel, Pakistan will NOT accept immigrants from India's Muslim minority even though it was formed as a safe-haven for them.

My question is only this: WHY? Why this difference between Israel's stand on immigration of the World's Jewish minorities and Pakistan's stands on immigration of India's Muslim minority?

Please, I am tired to explaining to you, and so this is the last post in which I try to convey the point.

 

[Riyadh Haque]

there is this thing called "philosophical history", a perspective invented by Ibn-e-Khaldun which suggests that history be seen in its context and time line, not through mere questions arising in one's mind---

point being Not everything arising in your mind is a valid question, so all what one can do to thread like this is say **Jahiliyya Bad-Tamizi** Please !!

Imran,

I am not sure I understand big words like "philosophical history" and I am surely not well-versed in the treatises of Ibn Khaldun (where did that "e" in this Arab name come from?).

Still, if in my own limited sense I have understood your complex point, you are saying that the Quaid's idea of "a homeland for India's Muslims" was only true in the context of the times in the 1940s. In questioning the things that arise in my mind, I assume that you are further saying that the Quaid's original idea of 1940s is no longer true today given that times and contexts have changed.

Am I correct? Is this what you meant?

If so, my questions are as follows:
1) What has changed in terms of the context?
2) When did this change happen in our country's outlook?
3) Who formulated this change in Ideology of Nazariya-e-Pakistan?
4) Was this change ever discussed and debated?
5) What is the raison d'être of Pakistan today?

Is Pakistan now a homeland for only for Punjabi Muslims? Or is it Rehmat Ali's Punjab +Afghania/Pathan+ Kashmir+ BalochiSTAN = Pakistan? Or is Pakistan merely a homeland for the descendents of the ancient people of the Indus Valley Civilization and had to be separted from India, which is the homeland for the descendents of the people of the Gangetic Plains Civilization?

If it is the first, then are the others merely peripheral baggage that accompanies the Punjabis?
If it is the second, then why was this not revealed in to the East Pakistani Bengalees right at the onset? Who fooled them into making sacrifices for Pakistan, when Bengalees did not even figure in Rehmat Ali's writings?
If it is the third, the why are the India Punjabis, Rajasthani, Saurashtris and Gujaratis excluded from IVC-inspired Pakistan? After all, the Indian Punjabis, Rajasthanis and Gujaratis/Saurashtris are civilizationally comparable to the Pakistan Punjabis, Seraikis and Sindhis as children of the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC).
And if India is considered as distinct from Pakistan IVC-culture because India is a Gangetic-Plains Culture, why was East Pakistan (also Gangetic-Plains Culture) included in IVC-Pakistan? Were they lied to? Were they fooled into just supporting the IVC-people knowing full well that they would be mistreated and kicked out later as "Gangetic-Plains Foreign People"?

To summarize, instead of blaming my mind for asking questions which you think are stupid, why don't you be more constructive and try to explain to all of us: What is the current raison d'être for the existence of Pakistan? Who are we? Why was our country created? What does our country represent? Who decides all these things? Where are these things being debated?