Putin Looks to Pakistan as Cold War Friend India Buys U.S. Arms

[Cheetah786]

You can win a new partner, and I am all for it because its good for you. But in our case we are not loosing a partner too. And you know what they say in international relations no friend or foe is permanent, we Indians know this game very well and we have mastered it long back.

Clearly, you have.

If Putin is looking for some hard cash, only disappointment would be there for him in Pakistan. Not sure if he has enough for soft/hard loans/aid in this testing times.

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And 10000s of other comments like this from indians shows you guys are in control and in-charge.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

You're very limited in your thinking. There is always more to a relationship than just the military aspect. Pakistan offers access to trade routes, deep sea ports and much more. Russian firms are very eager to promote trade and take part in multimillion energy projects linking Iran, Pakistan and Central Asia. That in itself is a huge incentive for the Russians.

Whether it is purchasing weapons or doing trade in other goods or attracting investments
or joint ventures ; everything requires money

It all depends on a country's GDP ie size and composition of GDP
the composition of its exports and above all the forex reserves

These factors determine how strong a relationship can be

Words alone don t matter

 

[Dash]

Clearly, you have.

Please elaborate, I am not able to understand the intent here.

 

[illusion8]

U are being naive in suggesting russia should not compensate for the loss of potential sales to india based on our buying their weapons.Thats not gonna happen.

What will happen is that they won't supply stuff that directly rivals our weapons for instance mi-28ne,ka-52 or any flanker.
But they may be open to other things to compensate loss of revenues to india and the sanctions.

They fully know we have no other credible option in 5 th gen aircraft apart from pakfa where we can participate as partners(maybe not as equals due to lack of sufficient tech but nevertheless) ,,,neither have we got any backup to modernize the flanker flet,mig-29 fleet,t-90 fleet on our own not to forget the aircraft carrier we ordered from them and numerous other subsystems they provide.

They are not as helpless as u are making them out to be.

Don't be stupid,

i never said Russia shouldn't sell.

I never mentioned PAKFA, neither did I mention Pakistani weapon sales as a counter to the loss from India sales.

What i did mention is that it makes no strategic, Geo political or economic sense.

 

[Hyperion]

It's just a bunch of helicopters that the Ruskies are selling us (that too without any venom - just teeth), let's not celebrate yet. I'll celebrate the day where Russia grows the balls to sell us reactors without us signing NPT, CTBT and FMCT.

We Pakistani's have the habit of making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Secur]

RD-93 deal was through chinese.

Thats a convienient excuse, it isn't however a valid reason. For all intents and purposes, the engines were to be used by PAF and PAF only, the Chinese weren't using those RD-93's. Moscow knew it better than us. The Indians objected though, regardless of the direct link part or not, back then, I do not need to tell you what happened next. The same is true for II-78 where the Russians didn't bother to pressure Ukranians from making the sell to Islamabad and for Mil Mi17 where a direct sale was made. Maybe its time to let go of the idea of supreme Indian influence on Kremlin, the present policies and attitudes seem to contradict the long held and 'even valid for quite a time' idea. Russians are looking for new partners and despite the fact that money will be a large factor, it wont be the only factor as most of the Indians seem to think and hopelessly cling to.

 

[he-man]

What it represents is more. It might just be a bunch of helicopters, the precedent it sets will be quite difficult to digest for some people, for a very long time. Dont believe the "we aren't worried" or "we calculated it all" or "all is happening as intended", the Kremlin has stirred the Indian nest profoundly. Let the teeth grow, the venom will be there next.

Thank god we changed our nest before they started shaking it

 

[he-man]

Don't be stupid,

i never said Russia shouldn't sell.

I never mentioned PAKFA, neither did I mention Pakistani weapon sales as a counter to the loss from India sales.

What i did mention is that it makes no strategic, Geo political or economic sense.

Please let me be

 

[Secur]

Please point out if you object rather than asking the authority..

I asked for a debate, thats what a forum is for...

What is it that you want to clean in this thread???

I believe I explained it to you, but it appears that some TT's now would rather try to troll than have any meaningful discussion at all. Maybe, the number of posts isn't representative of quality.

Thank god we changed our nest before they started shaking it

If the deal is no problem and well it isn't for what it appears to be, why exactly are you people consoling each other and adopting a apologetic posture? Last time, it was limited to Russian equipment is junk and hence we aren't buying it any longer

What i did mention is that it makes no strategic, Geo political or economic sense.

Maybe, it does to the country making the sale. Why should everything make sense to you?

It's just a bunch of helicopters that the Ruskies are selling us (that too without any venom - just teeth), let's not celebrate yet. I'll celebrate the day where Russia grows the balls to sell us reactors without us signing NPT, CTBT and FMCT.

We Pakistani's have the habit of making a mountain out of a molehill.

What it represents is more. It might just be a bunch of helicopters, the precedent it sets will be quite difficult to digest for some people, for a very long time. Dont believe the "we aren't worried" or "we calculated it all" or "all is happening as intended", the Kremlin has stirred the Indian nest profoundly. Let the teeth grow, the venom will be there next.

 

[illusion8]

Please let me be

ok.

 

[Hyperion]

I don't think so. They just want a bigger share of........... wait............. wait.............. Indian arms market........ they don't give two hoots about ours. It's just the way Russians do business, you'll see that in no time the Indians will buckle and will agree to all Russian demands on PAKFA and will settle for ToT only on paper and the money will start flowing again. Russians are just good gangsters, nothing more.

What it represents is more. It might just be a bunch of helicopters, the precedent it sets will be quite difficult to digest for some people, for a very long time. Dont believe the "we aren't worried" or "we calculated it all" or "all is happening as intended", the Kremlin has stirred the Indian nest profoundly. Let the teeth grow, the venom will be there next.

 

[illusion8]

Maybe, it does to the country making the sale. Why should everything make sense to you?

Maybe it does.


I am intrigued as to what makes sense, if it does that is.

 

[SpArK]

I believe I explained it to you, but it appears that some TT's now would rather try to troll than have any meaningful discussion at all. Maybe, the number of posts isn't representative of quality.

.

Last three posts have been requests on debate. But again the same song of trolling without pointing out what was the term which can be classified as troll. most of it has been explained to A rafay.

"It appears", "quality approvals , trolling accusations... stop the usual jibes..been reading that for almost 5 years...

 

[he-man]

I believe I explained it to you, but it appears that some TT's now would rather try to troll than have any meaningful discussion at all. Maybe, the number of posts isn't representative of quality.


If the deal is no problem and well it isn't for what it appears to be, why exactly are you people consoling each other and adopting a apologetic posture? Last time, it was limited to Russian equipment is junk and hence we aren't buying it any longer


Maybe, it does to the country making the sale. Why should everything make sense to you?



What it represents is more. It might just be a bunch of helicopters, the precedent it sets will be quite difficult to digest for some people, for a very long time. Dont believe the "we aren't worried" or "we calculated it all" or "all is happening as intended", the Kremlin has stirred the Indian nest profoundly. Let the teeth grow, the venom will be there next.

Russian equipment is not junk,period.
As for commenting on this purchase,,its bound to attract lot of eyeballs from indian establishment and russians have managed to send out a strong signal that they value their businesses and if not india then there are plenty of others for their equipment.

Perfectly reasonable.

 

[xyxmt]

@Horus with this fragile economy we can not build any strong ties with any country @Horus sir what do you say about this, in my opinion game is shifting but due to monetary problems we are still frozen or in other words still tied in a bond with WEST.

nothing stays the same