Pulwama - From Bluster to a Whimper

[MastanKhan]

Sometimes you need a General Patton!!! All of the IAF aircrafts should have been shot down...

Hi,

I would also like you to read up the war of 1973 and Col Sharon about what he did to the egyptian army---how he ddid not listen to the orders to stop at a very critical juncture of the war and decimated the egyptian military flank---.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

I would also like you to read up the war of 1973 and Col Sharon about what he did to the egyptian army---how he ddid not listen to the orders to stop at a very critical juncture of the war and decimated the egyptian military flank---.

Opportunity knocks but once....

 

[airomerix]

Hi,

It is not simple---it is disturbing---. The 'hit' aircraft is not going to tell where it is going to fall---.

On a larger scale air combat---some aircraft hit on your side will fall way inside the enemy grounds---.

I am not talking about pilot's incompetence here---. The pilot did his job---.

I am talking about the planners who did not take into consideration all the scenarios.

Looks like there were 9 + enemy aircraft in the KILL ZONE of Paf---. With so many aircraft present---confusion developed in the heirarchy of the Paf---and the person incharge did not want to stay the 'person incharge'---he calls his boss---who calls his boss---.

The order came down 'to shoot'---by then the enemy had turned tail---.

Primarily---the enemy aircraft were all in the kill zone arena or the whereabuots---.

Especially in the business of cold war. The idea you're suggesting (of soldiers innovating the doctrine to seize the window of opportunity) is not only suicidal but foolish from a strategic point of view.

You cant possibily imagine the outcome of the Pulwama fiasco had PAF pilots tried to shoot down all the bandits coming from the other side of the border. Regardless of wherever the debris falls.

The chain of command is to be followed without if's and butt's. And this is how even the strongest of military's function.

 

[TheTallGuy]

@MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAF did Swipe the slate clean. 8 kills it is...3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i, 3 x MiG-21bis

This @airomerix guy does have the true info and i can bet on it..he is just distorting as per instructions from above. lets say 2 x serving Grp Cpt. were dead sure JF17 scored the both kills. who is he to say F-16s scored these kills..if he says Vipe driver told him then why Serving Grp Cpts are saying something different altogether..it is purposefully hidden/distorted by PAF and on specific instructions that came of ACM staff.

things will open up with a bang! and rest assured Indians will 1st admit the 8 losses th....then i will ask airomerix what he has to say...

We can always agree to disagree...

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

@MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAF did Swipe the slate clean. 8 kills it is...3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i, 3 x MiG-21bis

This @airomerix guy does have the true info and i can bet on it..he is just distorting as per instructions from above. lets say 2 x serving Grp Cpt. were dead sure JF17 scored the both kills. who is he to say F-16s scored these kills..if he says Vipe driver told him then why Serving Grp Cpts are saying something different altogether..it is purposefully hidden/distorted by PAF and on specific instructions that came of ACM staff.

things will open up with a bang! and rest assured Indians will 1st admit the 8 losses th....then i will ask airomerix what he has to say...

We can always agree to disagree...

Ziada hogaya

@MastanKhan @Hakikat ve Hikmet

PAF did Swipe the slate clean. 8 kills it is...3 x Su-30MKI, 2 x Mirage 2000i, 3 x MiG-21bis

This @airomerix guy does have the true info and i can bet on it..he is just distorting as per instructions from above. lets say 2 x serving Grp Cpt. were dead sure JF17 scored the both kills. who is he to say F-16s scored these kills..if he says Vipe driver told him then why Serving Grp Cpts are saying something different altogether..it is purposefully hidden/distorted by PAF and on specific instructions that came of ACM staff.

things will open up with a bang! and rest assured Indians will 1st admit the 8 losses th....then i will ask airomerix what he has to say...

We can always agree to disagree...

I have a close relative who flies block 52+. He told that both scores are from viper

 

[HawkEye27]

Hi,

I would also like you to read up the war of 1973 and Col Sharon about what he did to the egyptian army---how he ddid not listen to the orders to stop at a very critical juncture of the war and decimated the egyptian military flank---.

SL Hassan was that Col Sharon. He took the shot on his own progative. After that all went away from the PAF package and no one dared come near.

Only Nandu was brave enough but got some good chaparein from locals

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

You cant possibily imagine the outcome of the Pulwama fiasco had PAF pilots tried to shoot down all the bandits coming from the other side of the border. Regardless of wherever the debris falls.

Matlab seedhi zaban me hamari phat gaye thi. Hum unke jawab bardasht nahi karsakte

 

[HawkEye27]

Matlab seedhi zaban me hamari phat gaye thi. Hum unke jawab bardasht nahi karsakte

Nops! It means that you must thrash someone by punching him in the face. There is no need to kick at the balls

 

[airomerix]

Matlab seedhi zaban me hamari phat gaye thi. Hum unke jawab bardasht nahi karsakte

Who knows.

28th 29th ko poori dunya ki phati hui thi including ours. Modi was very much ready with all out SSM strikes. Conventional or non conventional. Doesnt matter.

Similarly Indians ki phat gaye after they saw Shaheen SSM' getting ready. It goes both ways when you are neighbours.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Who knows.

28th 29th ko poori dunya ki phati hui thi including ours. Modi was very much ready with all out SSM strikes. Conventional or non conventional. Doesnt matter.

Similarly Indians ki phat gaye after they saw Shaheen SSM' getting ready. It goes both ways when you are neighbours.

Yeah I know. Karachi me to jahaz urey pe urey jarahe the. Indian Navy ka dar tha yahan sabko

 

[MastanKhan]

Especially in the business of cold war. The idea you're suggesting (of soldiers innovating the doctrine to seize the window of opportunity) is not only suicidal but foolish from a strategic point of view.

You cant possibily imagine the outcome of the Pulwama fiasco had PAF pilots tried to shoot down all the bandits coming from the other side of the border. Regardless of wherever the debris falls.

The chain of command is to be followed without if's and butt's. And this is how even the strongest of military's function.

Hi,

I am listening to what you are saying---.

But this is a different situation---. This strike was planned by Paf in advance---so all contingencies should have been taken into account.

A field commander cannot hold his mamas hand at the base Headquarters---at the time of a critical decision.

You are again putting in words to your liking or for a spin---.

I am not talking about soldiers / pilots---I am talking about that very senior officer who was flying at that time with the strike force---the person who was in charge of the campaign---who chose to be in the air---according to your prior post--- ( must be to take immediate action ).

Your comments in red has NO COMMON SENSE in it---. According to you---when the order to shoot down came---it was 15-16 seconds too late---BUT THE ORDER DID COME---which means that they had already taken " the consequences scenario " into consideration---.

So---the issue of what would happen afterward does not come into consideration at any time after that---.

I don't understand why you posters keep going to " what would have happened "---.

SL Hassan was that Col Sharon. He took the shot on his own progative. After that all went away from the PAF package and no one dared come near.

Only Nandu was brave enough but got some good chaparein from locals

Hi,

Don't talk cheap---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Your comments in red has NO COMMON SENSE in it---. According to you---when the order to shoot down came---it was 15-16 seconds too late---BUT THE ORDER DID COME---which means that they had already taken " the consequences scenario " into consideration---.
---.

thats it. you nailed it.
if the order did come then it was too late.
that order in time would have resulted in Indians grounding their 400 Jets.
that said I am still on the fence here specially if the debris of those 5 migs was going to fall on the other side of LoC.
if they had crossed over to our side then its a crime that they managed to return

 

[airomerix]

Hi,

I am listening to what you are saying---.

But this is a different situation---. This strike was planned by Paf in advance---so all contingencies should have been taken into account.

A field commander cannot hold his mamas hand at the base Headquarters---at the time of a critical decision.

You are again putting in words to your liking or for a spin---.

I am not talking about soldiers / pilots---I am talking about that very senior officer who was flying at that time with the strike force---the person who was in charge of the campaign---who chose to be in the air---according to your prior post--- ( must be to take immediate action ).

Your comments in red has NO COMMON SENSE in it---. According to you---when the order to shoot down came---it was 15-16 seconds too late---BUT THE ORDER DID COME---which means that they had already taken " the consequences scenario " into consideration---.

So---the issue of what would happen afterward does not come into consideration at any time after that---.

I don't understand why you posters keep going to " what would have happened "---.



Hi,

Don't talk cheap---.

I will tell you how it makes sense.

The situation in the air is always changing. It is so fast paced that even if a jet makes a 360, he exits the fight altogether (speaking of dogfights).

The orders for shooting down came when there was a situation X. The bandits were getting close. The probablity of the debris of those jets falling inside Pakistan was certain. The green signal came.

BUT. We now saw the same bandits moving away. The situation has changed now. There is no need to go after them and shoot them down EVEN IF WE CAN. There is a difference.

And you like it or not. The most sensible thing is to take the 'mama' in confidence. Because the MAMA knows what other kids are doing. And where other bad boys are lurking. She knows best. Listen to MAMA.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Similarly Indians ki phat gaye after they saw Shaheen SSM' getting ready. It goes both ways when you are neighbours.

Shaheen me aisa kiya hai jo Ghauri me nahi? Ghauri istimaal nai hoga India ke khilaaf?

 

[NA71]

Matlab seedhi zaban me hamari phat gaye thi. Hum unke jawab bardasht nahi karsakte

phati tu abhi tak hey ...it seems.....why PMIK sent a letter to Modi today? asking for talks talks talks.....