Pullout From Siachen

[muhammad ali ehsan]

This is with reference to the statement by Mr Nawaz Sharif that ‘Pakistan should take lead in pulling out of Siachen’ . Like most other statements by our politicians this statement also comes as a reaction to an event. But does it merit serious consideration? Will taking lead in pulling out our forces from Siachen compel India to do the same?
Its three decades since both countries signed Simla Agreement. Has that helped Pakistan? Which dispute/issue have we been able to ‘solve bilaterally’ let alone take the lead in pulling out our forces and leave an open invitation to the Indians to take away further ‘what is left for us to hold in Siachen’. Militarily we can never depend upon the good intentions of the enemy. It is only its capability or lack of it that continues to draw our appropriate response. Lets not forget that India is the aggressor in Siachen, we only stopped the advancing Indian military that has occupied two third of Siachen Glacier. If anyone has to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen it is the Indians.

As a young captain when I served at the glacier occupying a post at 22000 feet the greatest motivational force or inspiration was to defend the borderline against any Indian aggression. Strong snow blizzards did not allow the evacuation of sick men from the post (pulmonary edema, cerebral edema) and men died without us being able to do anything.Many such brave men have died on so many posts over the years just because they loved their country and cherished the oppurtunity to guard the national border irrespective of the harshness of the terrain.They could not accept Indians to take away an inch of land that was now held with us.

Today when 138 sons of this land have sacrificed their lives why do we focus only on the tragedy and forget the cause for which they died? Why do we forget those unsung heroes in thousands who have died since last 28 years this war in Siachen is being fought? Why didn’t we take lead in withdrawing our forces in the years went by? If guarding and protecting our borders through our armed forces is not a national responsibility then why have borders at all? Why keep and maintain the defence forces?

Yes we are faced with many challenges and threats. One big reason that we face these threats is to compel us to falter in our will and resolve that guides us to stay together as one nation. Force us to ultimately chose the only weapon that our enemies want us to pick and fight- ‘compromise-the weapon of weak’. On vital national interests we should never unilaterally compromise because thats what our enemies want us to do.

The best tribute that Mr Nawaz Sharif could have given to the martyrs of the Siachen was to salute the cause, believing in which the soldiers sacrificed their lives. To all the politicians who rule us today and who will rise to rule the people of this country in future I wish to convey a message. ‘Don’t send soldiers to wars as all wars are bad. But when you have chosen to send them don’t ever say the war you send them to fight is not worth fighting for'.

All wars must eventually end. The only wars without ends are the wars that the politicians perpetuate by failing to stop them from being fought on the negotiating tables.

Muhammad Ali Ehsan

 

[Alphacharlie]

This is with reference to the statement by Mr Nawaz Sharif that ‘Pakistan should take lead in pulling out of Siachen’ . Like most other statements by our politicians this statement also comes as a reaction to an event. But does it merit serious consideration? Will taking lead in pulling out our forces from Siachen compel India to do the same?
Its three decades since both countries signed Simla Agreement. Has that helped Pakistan? Which dispute/issue have we been able to ‘solve bilaterally’ let alone take the lead in pulling out our forces and leave an open invitation to the Indians to take away further ‘what is left for us to hold in Siachen’. Militarily we can never depend upon the good intentions of the enemy. It is only its capability or lack of it that continues to draw our appropriate response. Lets not forget that India is the aggressor in Siachen, we only stopped the advancing Indian military that has occupied two third of Siachen Glacier. If anyone has to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen it is the Indians.

As a young captain when I served at the glacier occupying a post at 22000 feet the greatest motivational force or inspiration was to defend the borderline against any Indian aggression. Strong snow blizzards did not allow the evacuation of sick men from the post (pulmonary edema, cerebral edema) and men died without us being able to do anything.Many such brave men have died on so many posts over the years just because they loved their country and cherished the oppurtunity to guard the national border irrespective of the harshness of the terrain.They could not accept Indians to take away an inch of land that was now held with us.

Today when 138 sons of this land have sacrificed their lives why do we focus only on the tragedy and forget the cause for which they died? Why do we forget those unsung heroes in thousands who have died since last 28 years this war in Siachen is being fought? Why didn’t we take lead in withdrawing our forces in the years went by? If guarding and protecting our borders through our armed forces is not a national responsibility then why have borders at all? Why keep and maintain the defence forces?

Yes we are faced with many challenges and threats. One big reason that we face these threats is to compel us to falter in our will and resolve that guides us to stay together as one nation. Force us to ultimately chose the only weapon that our enemies want us to pick and fight- ‘compromise-the weapon of weak’. On vital national interests we should never unilaterally compromise because thats what our enemies want us to do.

The best tribute that Mr Nawaz Sharif could have given to the martyrs of the Siachen was to salute the cause, believing in which the soldiers sacrificed their lives. To all the politicians who rule us today and who will rise to rule the people of this country in future I wish to convey a message. ‘Don’t send soldiers to wars as all wars are bad. But when you have chosen to send them don’t ever say the war you send them to fight is not worth fighting for'.

All wars must eventually end. The only wars without ends are the wars that the politicians perpetuate by failing to stop them from being fought on the negotiating tables.

Muhammad Ali Ehsan

CORRECTION -
1) INDIA was not the AGGRESSOR on Siachin "Spring Valley".
2) SIACHIN was out of purview of Shimla Agreement
3)If RAW didnt get the whiff of Artic equipment being ordered, we sensed the Preluding Fiasco and Hosted TIRANGA on the Glacier. Brigadier General Musharaff is known for 4 unsucessful attempts to regain, with undisclosed number of SSG Losses.
4) Bilafond La or Saltoro Rigde if occupied by China after Troop Withdrawl would lead to them Getting access to Karakoram Highway.
Leh Highway can also be shelled by Garad /Excaliber or Krasnopol Sheels if "Thoise is also vacated which is the basecamp for Glacier.NEVER Acceptable to INDIA. Skardu is about 40km from Sia La

5) Annual Indian Army expense USD 550m -Peanuts.
6) Pakistan wants unilatral withdrawl with no plotting on Maps.
7) Indian Position to point 6 NO.

The Himalayas War at the Top Of the World - TIME

Bottomline - Spending on Siachin or Troops being there will have no impact on us.
Pakistan must be spending about 500m this being 1/10th of their Defence Budget.

Sunny Jim - Lets paint the picture correctly, we are not that BAD.

 

[ziaulislam]

@above
india always twist facts and tell their people its peaceful loving country

thats why india has never been a aggressive force not even in events like 1971 or saichen!

 

[Alphacharlie]

@above
india always twist facts and tell their people its peaceful loving country

thats why india has never been a aggressive force not even in events like 1971 or saichen!

Interesting...........

 

[surya kiran]

Some 'facts'

1. You are not on Siachen. In fact you are not even on Saltoro.
2. Authenticate the ground position, all problems solved. Till then we won't withdraw.
3. Even if we authenticate, why should we withdraw? It's Indian territory. We can deploy when we want,where we want.
4. If authentication is done, tomorrow, if we cross over you can always claim that Indian troops have been aggressive.
5. We are not worried about the defense expenses. We can manage the same.

The main reasons for no unilateral withdrawal by Pak will be
1. Political party will lose face and lose the elections.
2. If India, does not withdraw, but the PA does, it will lose face. After all its all about honour here.
3. Somebody somewhere will link it to how vacating the post, is a way of submission in Kashmir.

So status quo will be maintained for a long long time. And MMS can kiss his shitty nobel prize good bye.

 

[Ark-Angel]

Some 'facts'

1. You are not on Siachen. In fact you are not even on Saltoro.
2. Authenticate the ground position, all problems solved. Till then we won't withdraw.
3. Even if we authenticate, why should we withdraw? It's Indian territory. We can deploy when we want,where we want.
4. If authentication is done, tomorrow, if we cross over you can always claim that Indian troops have been aggressive.
5. We are not worried about the defense expenses. We can manage the same.

The main reasons for no unilateral withdrawal by Pak will be
1. Political party will lose face and lose the elections.
2. If India, does not withdraw, but the PA does, it will lose face. After all its all about honour here.
3. Somebody somewhere will link it to how vacating the post, is a way of submission in Kashmir.

So status quo will be maintained for a long long time. And MMS can kiss his shitty nobel prize good bye.

You can stay in Siachen. We are ready, motivated and capable to defend our territories militarily. The above written article was forPakistani's who want Pakistan to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen.

 

[meranaamankurhai]

You can stay in Siachen. We are ready, motivated and capable to defend our territories militarily. The above written article was forPakistani's who want Pakistan to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen.

Well i do agree this ... except for few instances in past ... like 1971 and Siachen ... Pakistanis do have defended their territories successfully. Salute from an Indian.

 

[livingdead]

You can stay in Siachen. We are ready, motivated and capable to defend our territories militarily. The above written article was forPakistani's who want Pakistan to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen.

Both sides need to sit together and accept the positions on ground. Why would India vacate siachen especially after kargil. It will be very expensive in man and material to capture it back if some of your 'volunteers' decide to encroach it.
I dont think Indian army is there just for fun.

 

[MastanKhan]

This is with reference to the statement by Mr Nawaz Sharif that ‘Pakistan should take lead in pulling out of Siachen’ . Like most other statements by our politicians this statement also comes as a reaction to an event. But does it merit serious consideration? Will taking lead in pulling out our forces from Siachen compel India to do the same?
Its three decades since both countries signed Simla Agreement. Has that helped Pakistan? Which dispute/issue have we been able to ‘solve bilaterally’ let alone take the lead in pulling out our forces and leave an open invitation to the Indians to take away further ‘what is left for us to hold in Siachen’. Militarily we can never depend upon the good intentions of the enemy. It is only its capability or lack of it that continues to draw our appropriate response. Lets not forget that India is the aggressor in Siachen, we only stopped the advancing Indian military that has occupied two third of Siachen Glacier. If anyone has to take lead in withdrawing forces from Siachen it is the Indians.

As a young captain when I served at the glacier occupying a post at 22000 feet the greatest motivational force or inspiration was to defend the borderline against any Indian aggression. Strong snow blizzards did not allow the evacuation of sick men from the post (pulmonary edema, cerebral edema) and men died without us being able to do anything.Many such brave men have died on so many posts over the years just because they loved their country and cherished the oppurtunity to guard the national border irrespective of the harshness of the terrain.They could not accept Indians to take away an inch of land that was now held with us.

Today when 138 sons of this land have sacrificed their lives why do we focus only on the tragedy and forget the cause for which they died? Why do we forget those unsung heroes in thousands who have died since last 28 years this war in Siachen is being fought? Why didn’t we take lead in withdrawing our forces in the years went by? If guarding and protecting our borders through our armed forces is not a national responsibility then why have borders at all? Why keep and maintain the defence forces?

Yes we are faced with many challenges and threats. One big reason that we face these threats is to compel us to falter in our will and resolve that guides us to stay together as one nation. Force us to ultimately chose the only weapon that our enemies want us to pick and fight- ‘compromise-the weapon of weak’. On vital national interests we should never unilaterally compromise because thats what our enemies want us to do.

The best tribute that Mr Nawaz Sharif could have given to the martyrs of the Siachen was to salute the cause, believing in which the soldiers sacrificed their lives. To all the politicians who rule us today and who will rise to rule the people of this country in future I wish to convey a message. ‘Don’t send soldiers to wars as all wars are bad. But when you have chosen to send them don’t ever say the war you send them to fight is not worth fighting for'.

All wars must eventually end. The only wars without ends are the wars that the politicians perpetuate by failing to stop them from being fought on the negotiating tables.

Muhammad Ali Ehsan

Muhammad Ali Ehsan,

Welcome to the forum. Nawaz Sharif was and is a gutless coward.The only thing he loves is his image. The soldiers will always do the bidding of the politicians and the politicians will always be throwing them into the meat grinder.

 

[Nishan_101]

I think now Pak Army should look more in to Siachen and try to build better facilities there like helicopter storage area and better camps and secret bases there and create a better air defence system along with reconassance system there with 24/7 UAVs.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I believe that the military has sacrificed enough for that piece of real estate---. We should resolve this issue.

 

[third eye]

Hi,

I believe that the military has sacrificed enough for that piece of real estate---. We should resolve this issue.

Abs correct, it must be resolved.

The resoloution is simple..Validate the locations, sign and pull out.

This is something Pak does not want to do.

 

[MastanKhan]

Abs correct, it must be resolved.

The resoloution is simple..Validate the locations, sign and pull out.

This is something Pak does not want to do.

Sir,

Enough of it---your sh-it stinks as bad as ours---

 

[angeldust]

Sir,

Enough of it---your sh-it stinks as bad as ours---

Yes, but its our sh-it that's on Siachen everyday.

 

[AUz]

Well i do agree this ... except for few instances in past ... like 1971 and Siachen ... Pakistanis do have defended their territories successfully. Salute from an Indian.

Siachen wasn't a "defense" bhai jaan... It was an EMPTY barren land where Indian Army entered...and we , yet again defending our land successfully , occupied Gyong La pass hence blocking Indians on the top of that freezing hell hole.

So all in all ---Siachen was an utter failure and India got absolutely NO strategic advantage over Pakistan due to Siachen episode...

You are new...welcome! You will learn alot from this forum...just like many other Indians...