Protests flare in Papua as students demand independence referendum

[thetutle]

Dude, since when dividends are counted together with cost of machinery or other operational and overhead costs? Lol.

Dividend is paid out as part of EBITDA, that means operational And overhead costs are already excluded beforehand (hint: E stands for Earning = Revenue - COGS). Furthermore, Dividend sharing is based on ownership of share at the end of the day. Suppose you have 10 as revenue, costs count as 5, then you need to pay out your obligation with all the interests to lenders 2, lets say TDA cost another 1. You are left with 2. Lets say you decide to use 1 to pay out dividends, the 1 will be divided according to the ownership share. So PT Inalum will get 0.51 and the rest goes to other shareholders. These are shareholder profit. The remaining 1 will be company‘s profit.

You see, why would shareholder profit sharing be any different? The whole idea of ownership of a company is to have a clear shareholder profit sharing mechanism once a company makes money.

Dividends are paid (usually) paid out of profits. Profits come after all the expenses have been paid, like Machinery, salaries to all the executives, workers.

most mining companies sell anything they dig up to their subsidiary based in Singapore at a loss. So there are no profits as they sell at a loss. The Singapore subsidiary sells it at a profit. There is no tax in Singapore. So the Singapore subsidiary makes all the money. I would imagine the Indonesians own 51% of the company that makes all the loss. I don't imagine they are given 51% of the Singapore company. Thats for the westerners.

that's called "transfer pricing". Some Indonesians get huge money for allowing this to happen. They keep their money on western banks. All is good as long they allow this to happen and keep most money in western banks. Once they want all their money, there is a corruption allegation and money is frozen for 20 years until there is an investigation.

 

[nufix]

Dividends are paid (usually) paid out of profits. Profits come after all the expenses have been paid, like Machinery, salaries to all the executives, workers.

most mining companies sell anything they dig up to their subsidiary based in Singapore at a loss. So there are no profits as they sell at a loss. The Singapore subsidiary sells it at a profit. There is no tax in Singapore. So the Singapore subsidiary makes all the money. I would imagine the Indonesians own 51% of the company that makes all the loss. I don't imagine they are given 51% of the Singapore company. Thats for the westerners.

that's called "transfer pricing". Some Indonesians get huge money for allowing this to happen. They keep their money on western banks. All is good as long they allow this to happen and keep most money in western banks. Once they want all their money, there is a corruption allegation and money is frozen for 20 years until there is an investigation.

Yeap that’s what I have been saying. Perhaps to be precise Net Profits. What follow is EBITDA. Thats why I said dividends are normally calculated together with EBITDA after all costs have been paid.

Regarding your scenario, that is indeed one possible way to cheat paying out dividends to shareholders as it is illegal to pay out Dividends if it leaves the company without profit. Except in the case of Freeport Indonesia, they do pay dividends when they make profits to PT Inalum (Indonesian mining holding)

Setoran Dividen dari Freeport ke Inalum Naik Lebih dari Lima Kali Lipat

<p>Penerimaan dividen dari Freeport Indonesia pada 2018 lalu belum memperhitungkan kepemilikan Inalum atas 51,24% saham Freeport.</p>

www.google.de

Furthermore, mining operation in Indonesia is heavily monetized beyond dividends. For example, most oil and gas companies would be left with around 20 percent of all net profits after they paid out dividends and other obligations (investing back to the community) to the central and local governments.

 

[powastick]

Dude, since when dividends are counted together with cost of machinery or other operational and overhead costs? Lol.

Dividend is paid out as part of EBITDA, that means operational And overhead costs are already excluded beforehand (hint: E stands for Earning = Revenue - COGS). Furthermore, Dividend sharing is based on ownership of share at the end of the day. Suppose you have 10 as revenue, costs count as 5, then you need to pay out your obligation with all the interests to lenders 2, lets say TDA cost another 1. You are left with 2. Lets say you decide to use 1 to pay out dividends, the 1 will be divided according to the ownership share. So PT Inalum will get 0.51 and the rest goes to other shareholders. These are shareholder profit. The remaining 1 will be company‘s profit.

You see, why would shareholder profit sharing be any different? The whole idea of ownership of a company is to have a clear shareholder profit sharing mechanism once a company makes money.

I'm saying that the machinery cost of Freeport is a way for the US to earn a bigger share of the cut. Another way of transferring wealth are like interest loans and bonds. Indonesia will be always be the junior partner in crime. Otherwise, US will just have to cut a deal with the local Papuan and Indonesia will be the next bad guy like what happen with Timor Leste.

Not only we get 51 % profit from Freeport overall profit, but we are likely to get deep mine technology from them, transfer it to our state owned mining companies and also get one of the lucrative Freeport mine. And dont forget they need to pay tax and royalty as well to the government, so we get much more than 51 % profits.

Freeport also must build smelter to process all of the minerals being taken, including gold, and currently the second Freeport smelter project in Gresik, East Java, is being constructed as we are speaking here.

Is an excuse to stay there longer than it should, I'm not impress at all. Underground mining isn't high tech at all, its still easier than oil drilling, Indonesia could easily solo this. The only thing Indonesia need is to prevent US from "servicing" Indonesia democracy and provide "freedoms" to Papuan.

 

[nufix]

I'm saying that the machinery cost of Freeport is a way for the US to earn a bigger share of the cut. Another way of transferring wealth are like interest loans and bonds. Indonesia will be always be the junior partner in crime. Otherwise, US will just have to cut a deal with the local Papuan and Indonesia will be the next bad guy like what happen with Timor Leste.


Is an excuse to stay there longer than it should, I'm not impress at all. Underground mining isn't high tech at all, its still easier than oil drilling, Indonesia could easily solo this. The only thing Indonesia need is to prevent US from "servicing" Indonesia democracy and provide "freedoms" to Papuan.

cost of machinery, bonds, transferring wealth? How do they exactly apply to Freeport? Do you have any referrence for these? Otherwise, all I can say is that all of your arguments are very assumption based. If we go by your logic, we can just open crime 101 book and apply any corporate fraud scheme to Freeport Case.