Proof of Indian Involvement in Waziristan found: Army

[Naradmuni]

It's not so much the strength of US-India relations as whether Pakistan going public with the evidence is in their interests.

The government is weak, make no bones about that. They pretty much take orders from Washington.

As for your last statement, fair enough, however we feel we have reason to believe in the indian involvement in terrorism.

is due US pressure because it is not in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence nor it is in their interests if they admit the indian involvement.

Why would Washington prohibit Pakistan from highlighting indain involvement in SW? Isnt it an act of encouragement for alleged indian involvement in SW?? Now thats a thinker !!!

Maybe US is only interested in getting real targets for testing its latest drones and new misiiles

 

[SMC]

Can you clarify why it is not in their interest. Why should they bother. You can have you belief and so does Indians have their belief's and we had better evidence.

Even after news channel found evidence of Kasab being Pakistani, GOP did not admit. IMO that is enough to believe either they were involved or they did not want to help. It is not possible after providing address of your citizen a government cannot validate it in 24 hrs. So we have belief's on both sides and apart from Pakistan no one has ever blamed India. For that matter our record is quit clean(on terrorism), minus a little bit here and there.

It is not in their interests because it allows Pakistan to pressurize india to stop terrorism in Pakistan, which means Pakistan has reason to pull out its troops from western borders until india stops sponsering terrorists and perhaps shift the focus of WoT somewhat. You see if terrorist attacks stop in Pakistan, there is very little reason to have these massive operations against taliban. Thus its not so much in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence.

Also news channels are not good enough. They did admit after the proof was handed over formally.

As for your record being clean, you do remember that india was the country that started sponsering militancy dating back to 1971?

 

[SMC]

FYKI,
Consider FBI, CIA, Pentagon, India, UN, world community etc on one hand having the opinion that
TTP is: 1) a group of flushed out pashtun radicals of Afghanistan 2)who have been patronized by the local tribals in pakistan 3)who are mad at pakistan for launching attacks over them at America's insistance, and 4) who are therefore attacking pakistan as a response to its millitary offensive in SW.

And this is a perfect organization for india to use to denuclearize Pakistan. Because its target is Pakistan. You understand now?

What I merely meant by india creating TTP was that without indias help it wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as it is.

Which one makes more sense?? Certainly your version is "interesting" but far away from reality. Unless you back your claim with facts and not hypothetical declarations (TTP attacks only pakistan so it must be funded by Indians, etc)

The proof exists with the army and I know for a fact that reliable people within the ISI and the army have said about the existance of undeniable proof. The main problem is GoP is not going public with this and even ISI is stunned by this as am I. I am not just making hypothetical statements here.

The "reality" you talk about is something every has of their own. Your reality is probably not THE reality. You'll learn in your politics class that what is shown to us in the media is refined, sometimes important pieces taken out or spin added to it to make it appeal to the you. You stick with YOUR reality, I stick with mine.

And your lame excuse that TTP is India created simply because it attacks Pakistani targets does not hold any merit as there are other players too like Israel who are keen to snatch away your nukes. And your argument is based upon a hypothesis that TTP could be a perfect entity for india to use in its aim to denuclearize Pakistan. You need to back this by proof and not by highlighting it in bold fonts

Please, Pakistan's nukes are nowhere near the same threat to Israel as they are to india. It's a ridiculous comparison to make.

---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

Why would Washington prohibit Pakistan from highlighting indain involvement in SW? Isnt it an act of encouragement for alleged indian involvement in SW?? Now thats a thinker !!!

Maybe US is only interested in getting real targets for testing its latest drones and new misiiles

Read #287.

 

[Naradmuni]

Please, TTP is not Pakistan created and in fact indian created. They are different from other Taliban

The obvious interpretation of your claim is :

1)The unfortunate incidence of flogging of a innocent pakistani girl by pakistan taliban was, India sponsored.
2)The illegal radio station of mulla fazalullah was financed and realized by India to broadcast Indian propaganda.
3)Sufi Mohammad was an Indian agent who put forth Indian agenda while negotiating the so called "peace deal" with the government of pakistan.

I would love to add the Kabul embassy bombing by the taliban in the above list, as Indian sponsored activity (as per your claim) but then you would start it all over again, that well, pakistan taliban is different and Afghan taliban is different.

The one who agrres to your hypothetical claim of India creating the TTP, will also have to accept the above interpretations. Now this cannot be wise, can it??

 

[Naradmuni]

What I merely meant by india creating TTP was that without indias help it wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as it is.

I get your point here. But certainly India would not act against US interest in the region. India supporting BLA etc will not bother USA and may be true at some levels but funding Taliban would inevitably invite americas wrath, which would be against Indian interest. So again I find it hard to believe that India may be funding pakistan taliban, as India has a lot to lose than what it could gain by doing this.

 

[SMC]

You're putting words in my mouth here. More importantly, why would RAW care how TTP achieves its ends, as long as its ends help RAW what it wants to achieve? They sponser Taliban, i.e. fund them, them arms, etc. They are only concerned with the ends, not the means. They provide them things to help them achieve those ends, and thats about it. The naitivity is staggering.

And yes the Kabul embassy bombing is not done by TTP. Only a fool would think that.

 

[SMC]

I get your point here. But certainly India would not act against US interest in the region. India supporting BLA etc will not bother USA and may be true at some levels but funding Taliban would inevitably invite americas wrath, which would be against Indian interest. So again I find it hard to believe that India may be funding pakistan taliban, as India has a lot to lose than what it could gain by doing this.

Why would US create wrath on india? If anything, india sponsering terrorism works in their favor because it makes Pakistan have its troops on western border and take care of Taliban. India is not acting against US interest in the region, you have to realize. US only wants to deal with Afghan Taliban, thats about it. India doesn't have much to lose here in fact, and if it gets it way, Pakistan becomes denuclearized which will be like christmas for india.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

It is not in their interests because it allows Pakistan to pressurize india to stop terrorism in Pakistan, which means Pakistan has reason to pull out its troops from western borders until india stops sponsering terrorists and perhaps shift the focus of WoT somewhat. You see if terrorist attacks stop in Pakistan, there is very little reason to have these massive operations against taliban. Thus its not so much in US interests if Pakistan goes public with the evidence.

Also news channels are not good enough. They did admit after the proof was handed over formally.
1971?

i agree with your analysis

Media should do more to highlight these developments. Furthermore, we must do more to invest in international lobbying groups. Look at israelis, they've done fantastic job.

We have a new US-based Pakistani Lobby Group called Pak-Pac.

http://www.pakpac.net/



Learn about them, and spread the word. They are doing great things. Pakistan Permanent Representative to the UN (H.E. Ambassador Haroon Saab) is also doing wonderful things for awareness of Pakistan's position and interests.


Strong lobby....unity....and action. Important things. We have a large population of young talented individuals and we should take advantage of this.

 

[EjazR]

What a load of confusion on TTP and unfortunately the PA/ISI is not explaining very well to the public either when it is crucial to sustain public support and confusing them further.

Check out this video about TTP origins which is quite revealing and has well infromed people discussing TTP
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/37342-jirga-episode-ttp-origins-retired-officers.html

 

[HAIDER]

Taliban say India is not enemy...India say Taliban is India enemy....outcome is so simple...all India wants reason to stay or get involve in Afghanistan....now India is looking for strategic depth in Afghanistan....taste the medicine....

 

[toxic_pus]

conclusive of what?

Conclusive of the fact that the Mumbai carnage was the handiwork of Pakistani citizens, that these Pakistani citizens received training in Pakistan, that the handlers of these Pakistani citizens were also Pakistani citizens and were in Pakistan during the entire operation, that these Pakistani handlers guided these Pakistani scumbags during the entire operation, and last but not the least, that the operation began from the shores of Pakistan.

Why do you think your county did avolte face and accepted that Ajmal 'Amar Singh' Qasab is a Pakistani and that the at least some parts of the planning were made in Pakistan? Because of some packets of pickels and toothpaste?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Conclusive of the fact that the Mumbai carnage was the handiwork of Pakistani citizens, that these Pakistani citizens received training in Pakistan, that the handlers of these Pakistani citizens were also Pakistani citizens and were in Pakistan during the entire operation, that these Pakistani handlers guided these Pakistani scumbags during the entire operation, and last but not the least, that the operation began from the shores of Pakistan.

Why do you think your county did avolte face and accepted that Ajmal 'Amar Singh' Qasab is a Pakistani and that the at least some parts of the planning were made in Pakistan? Because of some packets of pickels and toothpaste?

Not conclusive of State involvement however, which is what the major argument is over.

 

[vnomad]

no shortage of weapons sir! Alas!

I'm wondering --- would ISI or "State Apparatus" (as indians claimed) be so stupid to send meth-addict gunmen to mumbai on boats filled with "Pak soap" "Pak toothpaste" and "Nestle Milk Pak"

It does puzzle me yes. But, then I don't know whether that stuff was recovered on the bodies of the men or elsewhere. I've read(unconfirmed) that the stuff was obtained from the hijacked ship that they came across in. They were originally supposed to cross over in a Pakistani ship, but because of increased patrolling by the Indian Navy and Coastguard they plan was scrapped. Maybe there was a fumble up in the instructions somewhere in the confusion. I guess those in the loop would know. I don't.

i also wonder why Kasab/Qasav (however you spell it) didn't commit suicide, knowing he was about to be caught.....he shot many civilians and then suddenly decided to surrender?

He didn't surrender. He was shot then wrested down by a policeman(who was quickly helped by others). The policeman was shot multiple times in the melee and lost his life.

sorry to lead this in another direction...........but South Asia is full of questions and oh-so-few answers!

True. For me the BBC documentary Terror in Mumbai was truly enlightening. I didn't even know that Kasab had been interviewed. Its all there in documentary which honest speaking is very chilling.

Dispatches Terror In Mumbai WS PDTV XviD PBoy : TV Shows > Other - Mininova

You can download it from there. Try it.

 

[vnomad]

The proof exists with the army and I know for a fact that reliable people within the ISI and the army have said about the existance of undeniable proof. The main problem is GoP is not going public with this and even ISI is stunned by this as am I. I am not just making hypothetical statements here.

What stops them from sharing the proof(or if not proof even evidence) of Indian involvement with their own press(the UN, US and India can wait). Because, so far we've only seen one picture that's been easily discredited and nothing else.

 

[vnomad]

Not conclusive of State involvement however, which is what the major argument is over.

That's the point isn't it. The Indian state for all its failings can prevent the RSS, VHP, Shiv Sena et al i.e. Pakistani hating radicals from unilaterally engaging in terrorism on Pakistani soil. Can you blame India for stalling talks with Pakistan? Negotiation is only possible if the Pakistani government's writ can be enforced in its territory.