Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[V. Makarov]

About Metallurgical experts, my aunt did PHD metallurgy back in the 80s from USA ,and spent the rest of her working life teaching at Karachi university. At the time she was the only female Doctor in metallurgy and one of the few in Pakistan . Her PHD was funded by government of Pakistan .
She and many others like her on who's doctorate GOP actually invested, could have been made more useful by actually giving them research project. But no they were left to teach undergraduate students.
Likewise my cousin did PHD in nuclear physics, again a female and all expenses paid by GOP. Came back to Pakistan, all pumped up for doing wonders for the country, and was deputed to some very low level administration work at Pakistan atomic energy commission.
Resigned within an year, paid the government of Pakistan her PhD scholarship expenses and immigrated to USA.
Today holds multiple patents and lives off licence fees on her patents and is a millionaire.
Another example I remember was my physics teacher in F.Sc . GOP sent him abroad for PHD in radiation physics . He completed the doctorate and came back as the first doctorate holder in Pakistan in that field.....and couldn't find any job. The only job he could find was teaching jobs and ended up in our college . He was a rubbish teacher.

Problem is not the available expertise but lack of use , or bad governance as Ex General Raheel Sharif pointed out as the biggest problem of the country.
Despite spending public money on sending doctorate students abroad for studies, when they come back, they are put to no use at all.
Waste of national money and waste of talent.

I would also like to add that 70% of the PAEC administration just sits all day at office to scroll Facebook. The officers wait restlessly for the 12 o'clock tea break and lunch time. They go back to their offices 3 hours after the lunch to get their brief cases so they can go back to their home in the Suzuki Cultus given to them by the PAEC.
The PAEC keeps on inducting people with no plan of keeping them busy.

I personally know at least 4 employees of PAEC who went abroad for a PhD and never came back. All this happened in a period of 7 years. They were not working on classified projects, so their families were not harassed or done away with, but you can imagine how fed up they were from the system.

There are thousand upon thousands of technicians and lab engineers who gossip all day about politics, sitting inside empty laboratories. They do this for years upon years, so they can get financial security later in life in the form of pensions.

Mismanagement has taken hold of all Pakistani institutions. There just seems to be no way out. Where ever you see, there is a disappointing story waiting to unfold.

I still dont get how threads on PDF of an indigenous fifth generation fighter can get so elaborate. Maybe I'm a pessimist or ,I think, ......too close to reality.

 

[GreyHat]

I don't think we have a better opportunity in terms of getting "Freshers experience, While even developing the Infrastructure with than right now.
Ukraine is a proven Engine Manufacturer & China is a Developing Engine Maker.So, you can have a Final Destination Image(through Ukraine infrastructure development) as well as interim image(China's working image). So,to capture Ukraine is atm very important imo.
Interesting would be what weight class/thrust power to start working on it?
You have to specify what weight class is something that not only satisfies present world, but it could be built upon in the future allowing them to have minimum leap with time to match the Western standards.
Ukraine is key. We have to invest according to their wants to get the core technologies

 

[The Raven]

You're right. That said, of the countries that could, hypothetically, reverse engineer the RD-93, it should be Ukraine. Not only do they have the industrial base for engines and experience (enough that even China tried buying into it), but they've operated Klimov engines longer than anyone aside from Russia itself.

We're not even on the trajectory to master crystal blade technology, but I'd rather we at least get to the 80-90% of in-house engine manufacturing, even if we must rely on Ukraine, China or even Europe for the most sensitive tech.

It isn't ideal from a political standpoint (as we'll rely on outsiders), but economically, we could save a lot of money, and potentially make some money exporting the engines. Yes, the outside partner will get a cut because they are supplying the crystal blade tech, but not all hope is lost. Ukraine is economically tenuous, it can't bankroll new R&D projects frequently enough, but we can help with funding and long-term scale. So, we'd need to rely on them, but in truth, they would need to rely on us as well, it's a workable relationship.

Anyways, if Russia won't/can't play ball, then getting a turn-key manufacturing line for an improved RD-93 (via the Ukrainians) or WS-19 should be the next goal. Obviously, we'd still need to import sensitive tech from the Chinese or Ukrainians, but I would rather we cover the accessible 80% than 0%.

The folks who come out of the manufacturing program can later go to crystal blade R&D, which may (or may not) pay off in the next 30-50 years. It sounds abstract and doesn't apply to us today, but our future generations don't need to struggle in a lurch like us today.

Why would Ukraine want to reverse engineer the RD-93? That's not what I insinuated at all. Ukraine has a long history in the aviation sector, mostly during the Soviet era of course, with Lyulka (then becoming Saturn) developing the AL-31, not to mention Ivchenko Progress and Anatov. Despite the lack of capital investments since the fall of the Soviet Union, Ukraine still has the capability to develop and manufacture engines. However, whether that would include contemporary engine technologies, such as ceramic material heat management or single crystal blades is another question. That's where either the Chinese would be a better option, both for a potential upgrade for the RD-93 and a powerplant solution for the FGFA.

 

[War Historian]

I am asking the same question. Because as far as I know we are not even making a Motorcycle engine at present.

Ideally though I’d like us to be producing all sorts of Engines/Power Plants, ranging from Motorcycles to cars to Tanks & AeroPlanes.
But that’s a case of ‘if wishes were horses’.

Off the topic,
If you need new complete engine for your motorcycle,visit the Sundar industrial estate or sheikhupura road you will find there. A to Z all components of engine "Made in Pakistan".These complete engines mostly supply to the local manufacturers, who are giving tough time to Japanese vendors in Pakistan
Car engine components, buses engine components,Ring , piston , cylinders, crank shaft and many others.
And don't underestimate Pakistani will power.
Pakistan is the only country, where illiterate mechanics had fly their home made helicopter with a scrap rickshaw engine for many hours , Untill he was arrested by CAA two decades ago. Just go to YouTube you will find hundreds of these type people.
Imagine if these young folks get the training and equipment what wonders they can do. Thanks.

 

[MIRauf]

Coincidently it was Bhutto’s death anniversary today. ..... but He made one Giant blunder & that was nationalisation.

Pak was paying out of it nose to the UK Firm for the Sui gas, the contract for it was huge blunder for a poor country like Pak.

 

[Kharral]

Pak was paying out of it nose to the UK Firm for the Sui gas, the contract for it was huge blunder for a poor country like Pak.

That might be the case, but even then it was a blunder. Disrupting business & alienating Traders/Industrialists is never a good idea. These people ought to be cultivated & leveraged so they create more wealth & even if they don’t exactly pay their share of taxes, they still ought to be leveraged because they are a source of power. Be it soft or hard.

Off the topic,
If you need new complete engine for your motorcycle,visit the Sundar industrial estate or sheikhupura road you will find there. A to Z all components of engine "Made in Pakistan".These complete engines mostly supply to the local manufacturers, who are giving tough time to Japanese vendors in Pakistan
Car engine components, buses engine components,Ring , piston , cylinders, crank shaft and many others.
And don't underestimate Pakistani will power.
Pakistan is the only country, where illiterate mechanics had fly their home made helicopter with a scrap rickshaw engine for many hours , Untill he was arrested by CAA two decades ago. Just go to YouTube you will find hundreds of these type people.
Imagine if these young folks get the training and equipment what wonders they can do. Thanks.

If true then it’s welcome news & that’s exactly the sort of people who ought to be cultivated & supported.
But are they supported ? That’s my contention.

 

[War Historian]

That might be the case, but even then it was a blunder. Disrupting business & alienating Traders/Industrialists is never a good idea. These people ought to be cultivated & leveraged so they create more wealth & even if they don’t exactly pay their share of taxes, they still ought to be leveraged because they are a source of power. Be it soft or hard.



If true then it’s welcome news & that’s exactly the sort of people who ought to be cultivated & supported.
But are they supported ? That’s my contention.

Support system is the problem. Who knows if we had supported those people, we might more advanced than Korea today.
Our establishment always ready to put red tag on each and every project, which is not giving them any personal interest.
You know how many local automobile companies has been forcefully failed by these civil and military rulers and establishment.from "SkoPak to United" , total 9 companies. If these companies were supported by state from 1966 to today.
Then how far our technology build infrastructure had gone.
Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Sony , Samsung, Thales,Ford not rise in a day.
If Pakistan want to build its own system them govt have to support all types of industry. Specially dual use technology base companies. That's not compulsory for govt to dump money in to these companies directly. But govt give incentives to industrial base large groups to also enter into this sector. Govt will give them tax holiday, heavy machinery import facilities. And govt will buy raw or finished items from them.there is no shortage of capital by the local investors of Pakistan. But the govt has to boost the confidence of investors and large industrial group of Pakistan, that their capital is not invested in sinking ship.
If govt will win the confidence of investors you will see how many hi tech and advance components we can manufacture at locally.
Local industrial groups can also hire specialist from Turkey, Ukraine and eastern Europe with a good salary package for metallurgy , engines electronics, sub systems, 3D printers and other designing stuff.

 

[Khanivore]

Apologies if this has been posted here already, I thought it's an interesting read...

Project Azm: Pakistan’s Fifth Gen Stealth Fighter Jet Program

By Mati | March 3, 2020 | DND

Pakistan has announced its plans to develop and produce the 5th generation fighter jet, according to media reports. It’s a part of Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) highly ambitious Project Azm that includes the building of Kamra Aviation City dedicated to education, research and development and manufacturing of advanced fighter jets, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and weapon systems.

The PAF showcased the conceptual design of its future stealth aircraft on the tail of the PAF C-130 at the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) 2019.

As per the yearbook of the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) for the year 2017-2018, the Aviation Research, Innovation and Development (AvRID) Secretariat has finalized the first of the four conceptual design stage cycles for the development of the Pakistan Air Force’s Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program.

Know About Project Azm: Fifth Gen Fighter Aircraft

The MoDP yearbook stated that the AvRID Secretariat has completed the first cycle of the conceptual design. It stated, “The first cycle of the conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”

The Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is the highlight of the much-anticipated Project Azm, which outlines the PAF’s ambition for developing a state of the art aviation industrial base within the country. This aviation industrial complex will support the defense capabilities of the country, alongside fulfilling civilian and commercial aviation needs.

Project Azm was formally initiated by the PAF back in July 2017, and its agenda is to develop an FGFA, a medium-altitude, and long-endurance (MALE), new munitions, unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), and multiple other projects.

Upon announcing the initiation of Project Azm, the then Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman had informed that the design phase of the Male Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) has reached its “final stages”.

According to the MoDP’s 2017-2018 yearbook, the scheduled deadline for the first flight of the MALE UAV was June 2019. The yearbooks of the MoDP are intended to reveal projects that are completed during a period of 12-18 months before the publication, which indicates that the MALE UAV has either flown or has been delayed, while the FGFA is well into the design phase of the project.

Air Chief Marshal’ Words About the Project

A recently conducted interview with the Pakistan Air Force Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan revealed that he does not expect the 5th generation fighter aircraft to make its maiden flight for “another decade”.

The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”

What More to Expect?

The FGFA is expected to be designed as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance fighter aircraft with a clean-sheet jet. The new design configuration reveals that the PAF intends to design a fighter aircraft that is equipped to carry heavier payloads and boosts a greater range than the JF-17.

Analysts believe that the PAF intends to design a platform that is optimized for offensive counter-air (OCA), maritime, and deep-strike platforms, making it next-in line of the F-16A/B Block 15s and the Mirage III/5.

Defence analyst Shahid Raza observed, “If my calculations are correct, the aircraft we’ll see being developed under Project Azm 2030 will be a clean sheet design, built around a SINGLE advanced derivative of the WS-15 class engine. It’ll have low observable characteristics and PAF defined specifications.”

JF-17 Thunder Block III

The Pakistan Air Force showcased its lightweight JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, which Pakistan began constructing ten years ago in collaboration with China. The PAF announced its plans to procure around fifty of the JF-17 Thunder’s improved Block III variant by 2024.

The aircrafts are being constructed with a 58/42 percent split, as the airframes are being jointly manufactured by China and Pakistan. The PAF also announced its decision to procure 26 two-seat JF-17Bs with additional fuel storage in a dorsal fin and improved training application for potential strike missions.

A report by National Interest stated that the new Block III is expected to cost around $32 million each. The new version boosts a helmet-mounted display system that is designed to allow enhanced flexibility in the targeting of short-range missiles in close dogfights.

The report stated, “The jet intakes are widened to improve airflow, and the Russian RD-93 engine may eventually be replaced by a Chinese manufactured WS-13 turbofan. Additional thrust, combined with lightweight composite materials could potentially boost the type’s speed and range.”

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Apologies if this has been posted here already, I thought it's an interesting read...

Project Azm: Pakistan’s Fifth Gen Stealth Fighter Jet Program

By Mati | March 3, 2020 | DND

Pakistan has announced its plans to develop and produce the 5th generation fighter jet, according to media reports. It’s a part of Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) highly ambitious Project Azm that includes the building of Kamra Aviation City dedicated to education, research and development and manufacturing of advanced fighter jets, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and weapon systems.

The PAF showcased the conceptual design of its future stealth aircraft on the tail of the PAF C-130 at the Royal International Air Tattoo (RIAT) 2019.

As per the yearbook of the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) for the year 2017-2018, the Aviation Research, Innovation and Development (AvRID) Secretariat has finalized the first of the four conceptual design stage cycles for the development of the Pakistan Air Force’s Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program.

Know About Project Azm: Fifth Gen Fighter Aircraft

The MoDP yearbook stated that the AvRID Secretariat has completed the first cycle of the conceptual design. It stated, “The first cycle of the conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of PAF will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes.”

The Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) is the highlight of the much-anticipated Project Azm, which outlines the PAF’s ambition for developing a state of the art aviation industrial base within the country. This aviation industrial complex will support the defense capabilities of the country, alongside fulfilling civilian and commercial aviation needs.

Project Azm was formally initiated by the PAF back in July 2017, and its agenda is to develop an FGFA, a medium-altitude, and long-endurance (MALE), new munitions, unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), and multiple other projects.

Upon announcing the initiation of Project Azm, the then Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman had informed that the design phase of the Male Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) has reached its “final stages”.

According to the MoDP’s 2017-2018 yearbook, the scheduled deadline for the first flight of the MALE UAV was June 2019. The yearbooks of the MoDP are intended to reveal projects that are completed during a period of 12-18 months before the publication, which indicates that the MALE UAV has either flown or has been delayed, while the FGFA is well into the design phase of the project.

Air Chief Marshal’ Words About the Project

A recently conducted interview with the Pakistan Air Force Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan revealed that he does not expect the 5th generation fighter aircraft to make its maiden flight for “another decade”.

The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”

What More to Expect?

The FGFA is expected to be designed as a medium-to-heavyweight, high-performance fighter aircraft with a clean-sheet jet. The new design configuration reveals that the PAF intends to design a fighter aircraft that is equipped to carry heavier payloads and boosts a greater range than the JF-17.

Analysts believe that the PAF intends to design a platform that is optimized for offensive counter-air (OCA), maritime, and deep-strike platforms, making it next-in line of the F-16A/B Block 15s and the Mirage III/5.

Defence analyst Shahid Raza observed, “If my calculations are correct, the aircraft we’ll see being developed under Project Azm 2030 will be a clean sheet design, built around a SINGLE advanced derivative of the WS-15 class engine. It’ll have low observable characteristics and PAF defined specifications.”

JF-17 Thunder Block III

The Pakistan Air Force showcased its lightweight JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, which Pakistan began constructing ten years ago in collaboration with China. The PAF announced its plans to procure around fifty of the JF-17 Thunder’s improved Block III variant by 2024.

The aircrafts are being constructed with a 58/42 percent split, as the airframes are being jointly manufactured by China and Pakistan. The PAF also announced its decision to procure 26 two-seat JF-17Bs with additional fuel storage in a dorsal fin and improved training application for potential strike missions.

A report by National Interest stated that the new Block III is expected to cost around $32 million each. The new version boosts a helmet-mounted display system that is designed to allow enhanced flexibility in the targeting of short-range missiles in close dogfights.

The report stated, “The jet intakes are widened to improve airflow, and the Russian RD-93 engine may eventually be replaced by a Chinese manufactured WS-13 turbofan. Additional thrust, combined with lightweight composite materials could potentially boost the type’s speed and range.”

Have any design offices been built for Azm?

 

[HRK]

Have any design offices been built for Azm?

click here

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Have any design offices been built for Azm?

just in paf fanboys dreams.
In reality its a Chinese export variant of J-31, however Turkey will have huge contribution in customizing the plane.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

just in paf fanboys dreams.
In reality its a Chinese export variant of J-31, however Turkey will have huge contribution in customizing the plane.

I think that is the real plan.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

It is interesting that such an important project was launched and still not a mock up for the public. Why don't politicians use that a project for themselves? However, the people of pakistan seem excited for such things.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

It is interesting that such an important project was launched and still not a mock up for the public. Why don't politicians use that a project for themselves? However, the people of pakistan seem excited for such things.

People of Pakistan don't even know about it. This is a defence forum that's why members here know about it. Majority of people were selling F-16s a week ago to buy ventilators.

 

[HRK]

It is interesting that such an important project was launched and still not a mock up for the public. Why don't politicians use that a project for themselves? However, the people of pakistan seem excited for such things.

one cycle of design is already completed 2 more to go then might be final design selected for prototype would be revealed