Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Deino]

In my guestimate, the model is a clue to the envisioned look and design of the NGFA of Project Azm. Gifting of a scaled model of TFX by the Turkish brothers and the visit of a Ukrainian delegation, with the alleged NGFA scaled model in the background, all seems to point towards a positioning for a future collaboration and cooperation of sorts between the three. But rest assured Chinese help will be paramount in the actual making of the major subsystems and the making of the first prototype.

by the way, concerning a possible Ukrainian collaboration ... there was once a small fighter project called "LBL" (not sure what does this mean?).

 

[War Historian]

Until we have no concrete evidence that PAF is actually PARTICIPATING in TFX AS A FULL PARTNER, Who in the right kind would erect a small scale model of a foreign Program when you yourself have a program at home which has comoleted preliminary design stage and had been going through further tests since 2017.

Sounds quite the AZM to me, Why would we throw off PAF F-16/JF-17 models in a meeting with Ukraine/Foreign Air force ?
Are we thekaidars of TFX ? The highest form of pride for a nation is it’s own developed item. Let’s say tommorow we buy F-35 or J-20/31, that would still be a “BUY” not a develop. PAF would still proudly keep its thunder model on the table upon official visits because that signifies our worth and capacity. Only thing that can replace that “Self developed” pride from Thunders is none other than AZM, Hence why I think this is not TFX or any other but AZM Fighter

And Please, don’t bring in the usual Ummah or paK-tUrK bhAibHAi.

Think realistically, to the scale of probabilities.

@Trailer23 Kyun bhai ? Aren’t we thaikedars of Turkey and TFX ? Throwing off our national pride Thunder from table model and replacing it with tFx because AZM is a nobody ? I agree with your POV as well about the manufacturer of Scale models although stand colors don’t matter much in this case.

@Dazzler just like me earlier was right to point out the apparent differences of this model in display vs TFX. The nose of TFX seems fatter, AZM’s canopy seems taller, Mid fuselage is quite thinner as compared to TFX.

Plus, Ukraine is no small deal here like Nigeria or Sri Lanka or Azerbaijan. Ukraine is a very important contributor to the world of aviation even post Soviet union. They are manufacturers themselves. Why the hell would we even think of portraying ourselves low by just putting up foreign model when an important delegation visits to us especially from Ukraine ?

My guess is definitely Ukraine is getting involved with AZM or maybe in some sort of industrial complex building for PAC or maybe cooperating just for powerplant.

@aliyusuf @HRK

Sir ,
Few days ago i write the same thing in other thread. But some member said no its impossible for Ukraine to engine development. Mostly people forget Ukraine's history of producing good engines after Kazan in Soviet era. So if we go for a joint development of a new engine with required thrust with help of Ukrainians it will be win win situation for both countries.we can share the expense in 50/50 just like the JFT and after the maturity of the new engine both countries set up their own manufacturing plant and also keep research to make it more efficient and reliable. We can also replace the RD 93 in JFT with that new high thrust engine but all depends on top brass. Did they have enough will power to overcome the difficulties in development and testing phase. Because this engine development will challenge many friends and foe in long term. So they would ask PAF drop this lengthy process i will give you a develope engine on low price. That's a fact. Thanks

 

[Trango Towers]

Did the PAF perform the R&D for avionics and radar? Did the PAF build the engine? Did the PAF design and build the weapon systems? Does the PAF even to this day construct the entire airframe from scratch? No. Once the PAF can show they can design and build the entire value chain, they will always need to rely on collaboration with third parties, most likely the Chinese, as they're our only reliable source of hardware. Even when we diversify, e.g. the T129 deal, we suffer indirectly from Western politics, and then have to go back to the Chinese for alternative solutions.

What a reply

 

[aliyusuf]

by the way, concerning a possible Ukrainian collaboration ... there was once a small fighter project called "LBL" (not sure what does this mean?).

View attachment 619717

Seems somewhat vaguely reminiscent of the two-seater Su-34 design.

Afterthought: Looks a bit like a two-seater MiG-29.

 

[Bilal.]

by the way, concerning a possible Ukrainian collaboration ... there was once a small fighter project called "LBL" (not sure what does this mean?).

View attachment 619717

Looks like SU30 had a baby with Mig29.

 

[Trango Towers]

Do u struggle with the English language? I wrote it in very plain and simple terms so it shouldn't be hard to understand.

Since u r an elite member I will stop here and just say read what I wrote AGAIN and then carefully look at how u responded.

Again...how are you qualified? Clearly you have issues with english as you couldn't answer a simple question. Sitting at home point fingers like daddy's little favourite doesnt make you qualified to judge an organisation that with limited resources now owns 58% of jf17 project and bringing out block 3. The same organisation that has armed its drone with home made mini missiles. The same organisation that's setting up universities to develop the pool of talent required for 5th gen. So please go away

 

[Deino]

Can you sticky the thread?

Unfortunately not, I can only moderate in the China section

 

[Indos]

The mystery will be solved on high resolution zoom on the tail part where the name of plane is written. If it is TFX, it means high possibility for Pakistan considering joining TFX program. So the time of when the photo is taken is also important.

@StormBreaker analysis that it is unlikely for Pakistani official to put other country fighter model on a meeting with a foreign official also makes sense. Any way, AZM program has already been made official so making the model of it is also important, so it could be AZM model as well.

The plane after being zoom with poor resolution

TFX Model

 

[LKJ86]

Source:https://oxibuzz.com/blog/tech/why-d...of-european-aircraft-project-completely-fail/

 

[Path-Finder]

by the way, concerning a possible Ukrainian collaboration ... there was once a small fighter project called "LBL" (not sure what does this mean?).

IMO Ukraine might be involved for its turbofan know how.

 

[StormBreaker]

Did the PAF perform the R&D for avionics and radar? Did the PAF build the engine? Did the PAF design and build the weapon systems? Does the PAF even to this day construct the entire airframe from scratch? No. Once the PAF can show they can design and build the entire value chain, they will always need to rely on collaboration with third parties, most likely the Chinese, as they're our only reliable source of hardware. Even when we diversify, e.g. the T129 deal, we suffer indirectly from Western politics, and then have to go back to the Chinese for alternative solutions.

Don’t want to hurt your sentiments but just because PAF is extremely secret about its home grown development in the work, doesn’t mean we are far from producing our own systems, at the present, we aren’t mass producing but surprise is in for all.

Stay tuned
PAF won’t disappoint. And dont think that i am just throwing a lie or something, You will see soon enough

 

[Trailer23]

@Trailer23 Kyun bhai ? Aren’t we thaikedars of Turkey and TFX ? Throwing off our national pride Thunder from table model and replacing it with tFx because AZM is a nobody ? I agree with your POV as well about the manufacturer of Scale models although stand colors don’t matter much in this case.

I think some of you guys are attempting to dig to deep into this whole model. It may be something and it could be nothing. I recall last year there was a lot of talk when a design was pointed on the tail of a PAF C-130 (Hercules) at RIAT '19.

I sense there are some Members who may have strolled down those corridors at PAC and know exactly what that Model is, but are keeping a tight lip. As I said, it might not be anything.

If TAI/PAC/AVIC wanted, they could accelerate the whole 5th Gen Jet process. Everyone would benefit from it.

 

[HRK]

Until we have no concrete evidence that PAF is actually PARTICIPATING in TFX AS A FULL PARTNER, Who in the right kind would erect a small scale model of a foreign Program when you yourself have a program at home which has comoleted preliminary design stage and had been going through further tests since 2017.

Sounds quite the AZM to me, Why would we throw off PAF F-16/JF-17 models in a meeting with Ukraine/Foreign Air force ?
Are we thekaidars of TFX ? The highest form of pride for a nation is it’s own developed item. Let’s say tommorow we buy F-35 or J-20/31, that would still be a “BUY” not a develop. PAF would still proudly keep its thunder model on the table upon official visits because that signifies our worth and capacity. Only thing that can replace that “Self developed” pride from Thunders is none other than AZM, Hence why I think this is not TFX or any other but AZM Fighter

And Please, don’t bring in the usual Ummah or paK-tUrK bhAibHAi.

Think realistically, to the scale of probabilities.

@Trailer23 Kyun bhai ? Aren’t we thaikedars of Turkey and TFX ? Throwing off our national pride Thunder from table model and replacing it with tFx because AZM is a nobody ? I agree with your POV as well about the manufacturer of Scale models although stand colors don’t matter much in this case.

@Dazzler just like me earlier was right to point out the apparent differences of this model in display vs TFX. The nose of TFX seems fatter, AZM’s canopy seems taller, Mid fuselage is quite thinner as compared to TFX.

Plus, Ukraine is no small deal here like Nigeria or Sri Lanka or Azerbaijan. Ukraine is a very important contributor to the world of aviation even post Soviet union. They are manufacturers themselves. Why the hell would we even think of portraying ourselves low by just putting up foreign model when an important delegation visits to us especially from Ukraine ?

My guess is definitely Ukraine is getting involved with AZM or maybe in some sort of industrial complex building for PAC or maybe cooperating just for powerplant.

@aliyusuf @HRK

plz read 1

 

[maverick1977]

Seriously?! You're comparing uranium enrichment centrifuges to directed energy weapons? That's because the US, Chinese and Russians had far more sophisticated methods of enriching uranium, at a greater scale. The centrifuge method is the 'poor mans' approach. I'd also like to remind you that the centrifuge design we used was stolen from the Europeans, so not quite sure what's so great about this achievement.

you sir have no idea what you are talking about..

 

[HRK]

by the way, concerning a possible Ukrainian collaboration ... there was once a small fighter project called "LBL" (not sure what does this mean?).

View attachment 619717

Ukraine will collaborate in the fields of repair and overhaul and modernization