Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[python-000]

American engine is for test only. They are working with royals Royce on their on engine

Ok & witch Country this royce royal company belong...

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Ok & witch Country this royce royal company belong...

It's a JV b/w a Turkish company (most probably Kale Group) and RR. They'll be working on developing a completely new engine especially suited for NGFs. The IPs and manufacturing know-how will be equally owned by both companies. Kale Group will manufacture the engines inside Turkey with 100% ownership. Initial block 0, earmarked to be delivered in 2028 to the TurAF, will have F16 engines from GE. Later blocks will have the indigenous engines...

Note that RR currently has a very small presence in the military aero-engine domain...

Thanks to Putin, the USA, UK, Canada and Germany are removing the defense related sanctions on Turkey one by one....

And, Putin is in no mood to end this war any time soon. He has smelt blood like the way his predecessors did during the Napoleonic wars and WW2......

 

[CSAW]

My bro, the Best option for PAF to move forward for J-35 whit the coopration of China just like we already done in JF-17 project, the project AZM will take time to become reality & Turkish TFX is just a mockup & it already attached westren strings witch can creat hurdels sa we are witness what happend with T-129 accusetion & Turkey already selected American engine & its TFX program...

Interesting thoughts.

From my side Stay blessed. Stay Safe.

Would like to have your views taking the subject forward a bit.

If J-35 is the likely & only route , and similarities are with Thunder approach - Couple of questions do pop up.

1- Since onset , The Joint Fighter JF-17 Thunder was NOT meant for PLAAF use - Specific PAF Product -Neither it was TOP of line advanced product for China [Not taking anything away from How Block 3 has turned out]- Its Assembly / rights & line being installed in Pakistan -

Do one see all that happening with J-35 as a forecast ?

2- JF-17 was meant for exports - Same for J-35 ?

3- J-35 is at a very advanced stage - Would Chinese need any JV ?

4- Or J-35 will be an 'off the shelf induction' of sorts ?

5- Incase it being the off the shelf induction -
Project approach , Clean sheet designs etc made for Azm -
Is there any future for that work [be it that there might be conflicting views on amount of work & that Azm is a HUGE Technical / Financial undertaking]

6- Would that limit entire PAF Fleet to practically one single source Tech - China in say 2035 - 2045 ?

7 - PAF would be satisfied with scenario no 6.?

8a - Or is it possible that Azm would continue as a PAF Project with sub systems and inspirations from Turkiye [Turkish indigenous ones only ] , China , Italy , South Africa etc ? That could preserve Learning's from Thunder Project.

8b - And J-35 remains as a ready option - ONLY to induct or Practice with few units ,
if IAF gets their hands on 5.0th Gen imported Platform or
somehow develop AMCA in next 7 - 8 years ,
to keep parity or balance intact ?

[Looking at Tejas development cycle - Chances are slim]

Some serious issues before drawing a line.

-Thanks in advance from my side.

 

[python-000]

I have 1 view point the engine that Turkey is creating will take time to meture & then going into the production it seem like wasting of time but on the other side J-35 is flying & China already make it advancment & changes & it is getting meture day by day, Turkey & China both are relable & Best friend But J-35 is the Best option for PAF...

 

[Scorpiooo]

Pakistan cant materialize Azm alone we need JV with turks or Chinese (this is the hard reality which we have to accept)

 

[Al_Muhannad]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa), @JamD

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519362897150980106

 

[JamD]

Former head of flight dynamics and control for Project Azm (who has since left PAC) has started his own UAV company called Woot Tech (https://www.woot-tech.com/):
View attachment 750722

They are making small UAVs:
View attachment 750723

These are nothing fancy and made from COTS parts but the important thing is the list of clients:
View attachment 750724
which is NOT military - so I feel they have a better chance of actually surviving and making a profit so that they can grow.

Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.

Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.

 

[Bratva]

Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.

https://www.ppra.org.pk/elv_org.asp?orgid=1206&orgname=National%20Aerospace%20Science%20and%20Technology%20Park%20(NASTP)

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[Readerdefence]

Hi for my friends who have knowledge
then me hope @Hakikat ve Hikmet my knowledgeable friend won’t bash me on this post
at the end if USA want to put hurdles in between the two countries doing business they can easily
Allison Engine Company/Rolls-Royce Corporation
On 21 November 1994, Rolls-Royce announced its intention to acquire the Allison Engine Company, an
American manufacturer of gas turbines and components for aviation, industrial and marine engines.[25] The two companies had a technical association dating back to the Second World War. Rolls-Royce had previously tried to buy the company when General Motors sold it in 1993, but GM opted for a management buyout instead for $370 million. Owing to Allison's involvement in classified and export restricted technology, the 1994 acquisition was subject to investigation to determine the national security implications.[26] On 27 March 1995, the US Department of Defense announced that the "deal between Allison Engine Co. and Rolls-Royce does not endanger national security."[27] Rolls-Royce was, however, obliged to set up a proxy board to manage Allison and had also to set up a separate company, Allison Advanced Development Company, Inc., to manage classified programmes "that involve leading-edge technologies" such as the Joint Strike Fighter programme.
[27] In 2000, this restriction was replaced by a more flexible Special Security Arrangement.[28] In 2001, Rolls-Royce and its LiftSystem was among the group that won the JSF contract for the F-35.[29]

The Allison acquisition, at $525 million (equivalent to £328 million),[25] brought four new engine types into the Rolls-Royce civil engine portfolio on seven platforms and several light aircraft applications. Allison is now known as Rolls-Royce Corporation, part of Rolls-Royce North America.[30]
thank you

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi for my friends who have knowledge
then me hope @Hakikat ve Hikmet my knowledgeable friend won’t bash me on this post
at the end if USA want to put hurdles in between the two countries doing business they can easily
Allison Engine Company/Rolls-Royce Corporation
On 21 November 1994, Rolls-Royce announced its intention to acquire the Allison Engine Company, an
American manufacturer of gas turbines and components for aviation, industrial and marine engines.[25] The two companies had a technical association dating back to the Second World War. Rolls-Royce had previously tried to buy the company when General Motors sold it in 1993, but GM opted for a management buyout instead for $370 million. Owing to Allison's involvement in classified and export restricted technology, the 1994 acquisition was subject to investigation to determine the national security implications.[26] On 27 March 1995, the US Department of Defense announced that the "deal between Allison Engine Co. and Rolls-Royce does not endanger national security."[27] Rolls-Royce was, however, obliged to set up a proxy board to manage Allison and had also to set up a separate company, Allison Advanced Development Company, Inc., to manage classified programmes "that involve leading-edge technologies" such as the Joint Strike Fighter programme.
[27] In 2000, this restriction was replaced by a more flexible Special Security Arrangement.[28] In 2001, Rolls-Royce and its LiftSystem was among the group that won the JSF contract for the F-35.[29]

The Allison acquisition, at $525 million (equivalent to £328 million),[25] brought four new engine types into the Rolls-Royce civil engine portfolio on seven platforms and several light aircraft applications. Allison is now known as Rolls-Royce Corporation, part of Rolls-Royce North America.[30]
thank you

According to Turkey's bosses of the military industrial complex, plan B, C, D etc. are all ready. And, some are in execution phases too. As per the TEI boss, all the technological know-hows and manufacturing capabilities are available to them to start working on F-22 class turbo-fan engines with the super-cruise capabilities.....

 

[Ra'ad]

Much can be learned from China.

 

[PakFactor]

Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.

I can only shake my head, we lack vision and foresight within our leadership who always feel threatened by someone else a pathetic and unprofessional mindset.

 

[Readerdefence]

According to Turkey's bosses of the military industrial complex, plan B, C, D etc. are all ready. And, some are in execution phases too. As per the TEI boss, all the technological know-hows and manufacturing capabilities are available to them to start working on F-22 class turbo-fan engines with the super-cruise capabilities.....

Hi that’s a suitable strategy my friend what im thinking at the moment it would have been better to do some with Chinese or Russian engine manufacturers as western always at the end have strings & delayed tactics to stall programs of the concerned country
as I might be wrong but before Ukrainian crisis and specific to S400 deal Turkish should start some immediate manufacturing or license built something for in between a more suitable options
hopefully this time TAI and concerned departments won’t repeat ATAK mistake again
thank you

 

[JamD]

https://www.ppra.org.pk/elv_org.asp?orgid=1206&orgname=National%20Aerospace%20Science%20and%20Technology%20Park%20(NASTP)

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I can only shake my head, we lack vision and foresight within our leadership who always feel threatened by someone else a pathetic and unprofessional mindset.

I am more afraid because of our economy. Our economy cannot support Azm, NASTP, anything. It needs to be put on track for us to even discuss these things.

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Now this is becoming a trend. The former lead of Azm FGFA program has been removed from the program (I hear due to office politics where his superiors felt threatened by him) and has now started his own private company as well - not sure if he has left the PAF or not - probably has.
View attachment 842942
View attachment 842940
View attachment 842939




Some updates on Project Azm and pakistani aerospace in general. The FGFA program is in effect dead in the water because of several reasons:
1. Most importantly - lack of technological capacity
2. Lack of funds needed for a project of this scale
3. HR mismanagement - PAC has introduced a 5 year bond that has scared away a lot of talent and a lot of people left. All thanks to a new DG I hear - this thinned out an already scarce workforce.
4. Project bit off way more than it could chew


However, this doesn't mean work has stopped. The much talked about NASTP is set to absorb A LOT of disparate aerospace and aerospace adjacent setups. In particular, AvRID, AvDI, CENTAIC, and a private company venture that is a collaboration between NESCOM-AWC-TAI. These are just the important ones off the top of my head, there are certainly more. So essentially in a year or two everything will be NASTP and that's the name you'd hear - not PAC, AvRID, AvDI etc.

So PAC and co are now only repair workshops and NASTP type organizations can't be supported economically.
Now we can only hope and pray for something from NESCOM only.Others are lost cause and are repair factories only.