Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[Rafeh]

If someone can talk a lot technical terms does not mean he/she is the smartest..
My two cents.

NO one was trying to incite someone's insecurities. Confident people with healthy self image don’t feel threatened by someone else’s use of technical terms. They understand that someone might have other intentions and not to make someone feel less smart. Those feelings are yours and no need to restore yourself by telling me “I am not smart”. This passive aggression is uncalled for.

The technical terms are necessary as there is no way I can say this can be done in Pakistan without actually stating that technical term. They ensure that the readers who will google them, will be able to verify it and information will be backed up. This adds credibility to the said arguments.

Furthermore there is a limit to what you can simplify in specialists disciplines. Ultimately you leave it to the reader to google and learn more about something.

I don’t need your certificate of smartness. So please stop trying to give me one by force. Stick to the topic instead of trying to define me.

I was simply trying to counter excessively poor image of Pakistan which does not reflects the reality. I had to highlight the good things.

Also when others discuss specific military hardware I don’t a get thing since I am not familiar with them. I don’t go around telling them they are trying to sound smart. I know that’s their area of knowledge and they know it so they state it without much bothering to explain to us. Same happen when people discuss economic policies. I often don’t get them but I trust they know what they are talking about so it must be true.

I often don’t get military operational terms and procedures such as described by Signalian or Foxtrot Alpha among others. I understand and he and Foxtrot Alpha and other know about such stuff so it must be true. I don’t get insecure and accuse them of trying to sound “smart” regarding military operational details and suggestion. I know they know their field and just sharing it.

Also when you spend lot of your life in a certain set of fields, you often forget that other might not get it or you are explaining it poorly. since it makes perfect sense to the writer. We are only humans.

Please don’t start another “I am so insecure” fight on the forum. For God sake discuss project AZM and not me.

I am smart enough to get all that done what my Allah wants to me get done. That’s enough for me. That’s what matters in the end. So let Allah define me.

 

[Rafeh]

I’d say let the delusions be. @Deino has much much better validation of his knowledge and research from verified people rather than self fellatio 1’s and 0’s.

With “assistance “ like that - lets be glad its selling Peterbilt Trucks and not actually involved in actual assistance.

Man, you all really have some big problems that's why Pakistan not progressing.

No one was doing any "self fellatio" (what a filthy term) and don't ever use such term while hiding behind the keyboard.

Some passive aggressive insecure people can never understand someone's sincerity. .

If had yourself any true advanced knowledge you would know one cannot write a single post like me without having the actual knowledge. But that's was not the point. I just just trying to defend a country that lives in extremely poor self image.

Now all of you get back to the topic. Or like certain ethnicities in Pakistan you will spend cowardly back stabbing and discussing me with your passive aggressive tones?

That's why I have NO pakistani friend. Thank God for that. Other muslims are better and way more decent.

You were suppose to discuss the aircraft and NOT me unless I am offending an entire country or a race.

Now you live with your kind. I am longing off and never returning back. I swear to Allah I will never return to this forum.

Here just filthy indirect attack continue one after another by some insecure person. Growing up in a sophisticated educated family I am not used to this kind of behavior. This place is not for me.

This is not a place for any decent person and or a sincere muslim. Yes I am one. Go ask Allah if you believe in him. or let him decide. He will fix you too. I asked Him.

 

[JamD]

Who gets to judge whether their claims to be that are actually so and not just plain loghorrea or self aggrandizing BS?

But then, when we have people who think Khadim Rizvi has greater merit than a true humanitarian such as Edhi.. I’d say let the delusions be. @Deino has much much better validation of his knowledge and research from verified people rather than self fellatio 1’s and 0’s.

Reminds me of a certain amardeepmishra lol.

Also, @Irfan Baloch can we move all this discussion out of this Azm thread into a separate "Who wants to be a millionaire: obscure engineering terms edition"?lol

 

[SQ8]

Man, you all really have some big problems that's why Pakistan not progressing.

No one was doing any "self fellatio" (what a filthy term) and don't ever use such term while hiding behind the keyboard.

Some passive aggressive insecure people can never understand someone's sincerity. .

If had yourself any true advanced knowledge you would know one cannot write a single post like me without having the actual knowledge. But that's was not the point. I just just trying to defend a country that lives in extremely poor self image.

Now all of you get back to the topic. Or like certain ethnicities in Pakistan you will spend cowardly back stabbing and discussing me with your passive aggressive tones?

That's why I have NO pakistani friend. Thank God for that. Other muslims are better and way more decent.

You were suppose to discuss the aircraft and NOT me unless I am offending an entire country or a race.

Now you live with your kind. I am longing off and never returning back. I swear to Allah I will never return to this forum.

Here just filthy indirect attack continue one after another by some insecure person. Growing up in a sophisticated educated family I am not used to this kind of behavior. This place is not for me.

This is not a place for any decent person and or a sincere muslim. Yes I am one. Go ask Allah if you believe in him. or let him decide. He will fix you too. I asked Him.

You do realize that I wasn’t talking about you - although your post is full of self contradictions - apart from painting yourself as the messiah incarnate and possibly racist along with some class based superiority.

We were discussing the key issues impeding R&D in Pakistan - and as for your idea that only you have lived in this field , everytime the standard issue SDR is keyed in Pakistan and someone speaks - its code that I worked on that is responsible for encoding their voice so please do not throw your copy paste references of papers around as some knowledge superiority in all domains.
You may be better qualified to discuss this or many subjects, but your last post to deino reflects this better instead of some quasi-religious racist tirade.

That is exactly what was being ridiculed by us as the idea on members here and their inability to agree to disagree if one doesn’t follow their “wisdom” , which is ironically what they project on and accuse others of so its a seemingly endless case of chicken and egg on who knows more.

I do agree its time to return to the AZM.

 

[The Eagle]

mods

Totally uncalled. No need to chip in your bet on behalf of someone else against Mod(s) call, if there is any. Let the matter be decided between the Mod and relevant member.

 

[CodeforFood]

NO one was trying to incite someone's insecurities. Confident people with healthy self image don’t feel threatened by someone else’s use of technical terms. They understand that someone might have other intentions and not to make someone feel less smart. Those feelings are yours and no need to restore yourself by telling me “I am not smart”. This passive aggression is uncalled for.

The technical terms are necessary as there is no way I can say this can be done in Pakistan without actually stating that technical term. They ensure that the readers who will google them, will be able to verify it and information will be backed up. This adds credibility to the said arguments.

Furthermore there is a limit to what you can simplify in specialists disciplines. Ultimately you leave it to the reader to google and learn more about something.

I don’t need your certificate of smartness. So please stop trying to give me one by force. Stick to the topic instead of trying to define me.

I was simply trying to counter excessively poor image of Pakistan which does not reflects the reality. I had to highlight the good things.

Also when others discuss specific military hardware I don’t a get thing since I am not familiar with them. I don’t go around telling them they are trying to sound smart. I know that’s their area of knowledge and they know it so they state it without much bothering to explain to us. Same happen when people discuss economic policies. I often don’t get them but I trust they know what they are talking about so it must be true.

I often don’t get military operational terms and procedures such as described by Signalian or Foxtrot Alpha among others. I understand and he and Foxtrot Alpha and other know about such stuff so it must be true. I don’t get insecure and accuse them of trying to sound “smart” regarding military operational details and suggestion. I know they know their field and just sharing it.

Also when you spend lot of your life in a certain set of fields, you often forget that other might not get it or you are explaining it poorly. since it makes perfect sense to the writer. We are only humans.

Please don’t start another “I am so insecure” fight on the forum. For God sake discuss project AZM and not me.

I am smart enough to get all that done what my Allah wants to me get done. That’s enough for me. That’s what matters in the end. So let Allah define me.

Bhai I have no stake in this. Based on my experience what I was suggesting is that we should not put boundaries on our selves based on the techno-lingo/terms and technical parameter defined in western world. Encourage a more open thought process specially in initial stage. By no mean, I was trying to suggest 'you' were doing it. I am also technical but, recently I have been more so in a leadership role. In that role what I noticed is that as long as I can connect at the same level with most folk in my team the better the results i get in terms of getting my point across and encouraging teamwork.
Again my two cents

 

[MastanKhan]

Who gets to judge whether their claims to be that are actually so and not just plain loghorrea or self aggrandizing BS?

But then, when we have people who think Khadim Rizvi has greater merit than a true humanitarian such as Edhi.. I’d say let the delusions be. @Deino has much much better validation of his knowledge and research from verified people rather than self fellatio 1’s and 0’s.

With “assistance “ like that - lets be glad its selling Peterbilt Trucks and not actually involved in actual assistance.

Hi,

Actually a general manager---sonny boy.

I remember your days when you did not have the ballz to write an article and would play on the side of "shaky ground" trying desperately hard to use "hearsay" as your own input---.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Hi,

Actually a general manager---sonny boy.

I remember your days when you did not have the ballz to write an article and would play on the side of "shaky ground" trying desperately hard to use "hearsay" as your own input---.

Banday bun jao dono

and give this idea a thought.

J-31 design and concept adapted and then given Pakistani flavour in the shape of AZM hence the ambitious timeline given?

 

[CodeforFood]

Bhai I have no stake in this. Based on my experience what I was suggesting is that we should not put boundaries on our selves based on the techno-lingo/terms and technical parameter defined in western world. Encourage a more open thought process specially in initial stage. By no mean, I was trying to suggest 'you' were doing it. I am also technical but, recently I have been more so in a leadership role. In that role what I noticed is that as long as I can connect at the same level with most folk in my team the better the results i get in terms of getting my point across and encouraging teamwork.
Again my two cents
I wasn't specifically targetting you. My thought was more so in the spirit and topic of this thread. Project AZM seems to be all about extending our boundaries and my point are directly related to them.

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

Actually a general manager---sonny boy.

I remember your days when you did not have the ballz to write an article and would play on the side of "shaky ground" trying desperately hard to use "hearsay" as your own input---.

Whatever Donald.

 

[Sayfullah]

Banday bun jao dono

and give this idea a thought.

J-31 design and concept adapted and then given Pakistani flavour in the shape of AZM hence the ambitious timeline given?

When is project azm flying prototype gonna be built by?

Banday bun jao dono

and give this idea a thought.

J-31 design and concept adapted and then given Pakistani flavour in the shape of AZM hence the ambitious timeline given?

Also is project azm 5th gen fighter jet gonna be twin engine or not?

 

[Indos]

Pakistani brother, please dont get easily make a sworn to Allah, it will make your life difficult some day, please dont burden yourselves with unnecessary thing like that since breaking that kind of promise can get severe consequence. There is a verse about the punishment in Quran for breaking a promise to Allah. I dont quote him since I dont want to make him look the forum once more as he has already made that promise.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

When is project azm flying prototype gonna be built by?

Also is project azm 5th gen fighter jet gonna be twin engine or not?

the concept is twin engine and based on purely the discussion on this forum I have seen dates from 2023 to 2025.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

IMHO... this project will go in 1 of 3 ways.

It'll either be the new nuclear program in as far as a long-term effort to genuinely develop and build an indigenous fighter. IMO we won't see the fruits of this vision until 2040, if not later.

Or...

It'll be a front to get a certain long-range, deep-strike capability into Pakistan via China without the US blaming China for destabilizing the region via proliferation. Yes, everyone would know it draws on Chinese technology to a significant degree, but the Chinese can say, 'Pakistan still did most of the heavy lifting, albeit with our bricks and mortar.'

Or...

Both of the above, which would be the best scenario all things considered, but unlikely. If the PAF is dead-set on getting a next-gen fighter before 2040, it's going to be No. 2.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

IMHO... this project will go in 1 of 3 ways.

It'll either be the new nuclear program in as far as a long-term effort to genuinely develop and build an indigenous fighter. IMO we won't see the fruits of this vision until 2040, if not later.

Or...

It'll be a front to get a certain long-range, deep-strike capability into Pakistan via China without the US blaming China for destabilizing the region via proliferation. Yes, everyone would know it draws on Chinese technology to a significant degree, but the Chinese can say, 'Pakistan still did most of the heavy lifting, albeit with our bricks and mortar.'

Or...

Both of the above, which would be the best scenario all things considered, but unlikely. If the PAF is dead-set on getting a next-gen fighter before 2040, it's going to be No. 2.

But 2040 is way too far bahi atleast 2030 should be the target... if we are looking at 2040 why not start 6th gen too ?