Featured Project Azm: Pakistan's Ambitious Quest to Develop 5th Generation Military Technologies.

[UKBengali]

Life span do not define class. It is thrust parameters and dimensions which define the class.

Life span depends on the metallurgy, engine design and number of engine cycles.

Western engines use better metallurgy and their engines are well designed to cater high heat stress.

In addition to this they do serialized tracking of every part to determine MTBF of that part. Data collection and its analysis helps them to isolate critical parts and reasons of failure. Upgradation or redesigning is subsequent result. This trend is more obvious in US systems. Other western systems and Russians are not that thorough.

Service life recommended by manufacturer was around 4000 hrs for RD-93, but our engineers at overhauling facility can give life extension to the engine modules, after replacing the damaged critical parts, for another 500 or 1000 hrs. And this process may continue depending on the overall condition of that particular module. After all PAF have so many highly qualified engineers and highly skilled technicians.

I was not implying that lifespan is dependent on different classes.

Just replacing parts will not increase lifespan as manufacturer lifespan takes that into account.

Pakistan has been using JF-17 since 2007 and so that is 13 years. Assuming 200 hours per year, then the oldest JF-17s will have gotten 2600 hours of engine use. There is no way that Pakistan can assume 7000 hours of total engine lifespan when it's most used engines may have only done 1/3rd of this amount and the earliest JF-17s may already have had new engines put in.

Edit - Just checked and it looks like the RD-33 series have 4000 hours service life but the RD-93 has been decreased to 2200 hours as increase in thrust has reduced service life.

As a rule of thumb:

Chinese engine lifespan - 1
Russian engine lifespan - x2
Western engine lifespan - x 4

 

[Marker]

I was not implying that lifespan is dependent on different classes.

Just replacing parts will not increase lifespan as manufacturer lifespan takes that into account.

Pakistan has been using JF-17 since 2007 and so that is 13 years. Assuming 200 hours per year, then the oldest JF-17s will have gotten 2600 hours of engine use. There is no way that Pakistan can assume 7000 hours of total engine lifespan when it's most used engines have only done 1/3rd of this amount.

As for 4000 hours for RD-93 I think this is a bit optimistic when you look at the lifespan of contemporary Russian engines but it is not totally unrealistic as Western engines can do 6000+ hours now.


As a rule of thumb:

Chinese engine lifespan - 1
Russian engine lifespan - x2
Western engine lifespan - x 4

Yes, logical conclusion.

However, Engine hours logging include engine ground runs and test runs and engines rotate from one aircraft to another due to various maintenance reasons.

Our engines did not cross 4000 hrs. But must be undergoing overhaul maintenance.

Then I must be misinterpreting the Air Cdr's statement.

 

[Indos]

I was not implying that lifespan is dependent on different classes.

Just replacing parts will not increase lifespan as manufacturer lifespan takes that into account.

Pakistan has been using JF-17 since 2007 and so that is 13 years. Assuming 200 hours per year, then the oldest JF-17s will have gotten 2600 hours of engine use. There is no way that Pakistan can assume 7000 hours of total engine lifespan when it's most used engines may have only done 1/3rd of this amount and the earliest JF-17s may already have had new engines put in.

Edit - Just checked and it looks like the RD-33 series have 4000 hours service life but the RD-93 has been decreased to 2200 hours as increase in thrust gas reduced service life.

As a rule of thumb:

Chinese engine lifespan - 1
Russian engine lifespan - x2
Western engine lifespan - x 4

Actually none of engine manufacturer put their lifespan information on their official website, it includes Western engine as well. Wikipedia cannot be relied in this matter.

 

[UKBengali]

Actually none of engine manufacturer put their lifespan information on their official website, it includes Western engine as well. Wikipedia cannot be relied in this matter.

RR does for EJ-2000. I took it out from their website.

Chinese State media stated in 2018 that WS-10 engine lifespan had risen from 800 hours to 1500 hours.

You just need to spend some time looking.

 

[Indos]

RR does for EJ-2000. I took it out from their website.

Chinese State media stated in 2018 that WS-10 engine lifespan had risen from 800 hours to 1500 hours.

You just need to spend some time looking.

So where the source of RD 33 engine lifespan coming from ??

 

[UKBengali]

So where the source of RD 33 engine lifespan coming from ??

Wiki I will admit but it makes sense as Russian engines are known to have half the lifespan of Western ones.

Another indirect way to figure it out is that Chinese state media said some years ago that they managed to increase the overhaul time of AL-31F from 900 to 1500 hours.

That is good enough to get a ballpark figure as even manufacturers do not really know for sure for new engines and it is always an estimate with a certain confidence interval.

 

[xyx007]

Military power is widely considered an essential variable in international relations because it functions as a decisive arbiter of disputes when used and shapes relationships among states even when it is not. Military power influences global cooperation patterns, trade policy, economic development, identity construction, and, of course, war causation and termination.
Look at Japan's most robust economy back in 1980 and how the US-controlled Japan trade back in the 1980s. America is trying to turn China into another Japan, but China is also strong military power and can't twist arms as he did with Japan.
This is BD internal defense matters and they know what is best for their country.

 

[nomi007]

The Only Plane That Could Beat The F-22 Raptor

 

[Ali_Baba]

The YF23 was sssooo ahead of its time, that most new designs for 6th gen platforms look like the YF23.

Tempest is a lessons learned from the YF23. It takes it's pedigree from that platform...

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Most Pakistani fanboys have started to imagine Pakistani FGFA to look like YF-23... until another picture is leaked out by the PAF.

The same fanboys will probably start praising LCA Flying Rickshaws if impression was given that's what Pakistani FGFA may look-like.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Most Pakistani fanboys have started to imagine Pakistani FGFA to look like YF-23... until another picture is leaked out by the PAF.

The same fanboys will probably start praising LCA Flying Rickshaws if impression was given that's what Pakistani FGFA may look-like.

we got to live with the limits of our imagination, creativity and abilities to a shape that looks like a rickshaw but it will be our rickshaw after all so some love is justified. just by looking at designs of any engineering you can tell if its Russian, Western, Chinese or rest of the world purely due to aesthetics and outlook that either show quality beauty or emotionless utilitarian blandness or vintage deign used by west many decades ago.

 

[The Raven]

Most Pakistani fanboys have started to imagine Pakistani FGFA to look like YF-23... until another picture is leaked out by the PAF.

The same fanboys will probably start praising LCA Flying Rickshaws if impression was given that's what Pakistani FGFA may look-like.

That's what happens when people are naïve enough to believe that the PAC/PAF will reveal their next gen fighter development programme by painting it on the tail of a C-130 or through video snippets of aerospace engineering students studying CAD design. But clearly PAF's/ISI's misinformation capabilities are working just fine.

 

[Armchair]

Hope PAF is looking at the Loyal Wingman program Australia is pioneering with Boeing. Seems the Aussies have one upped even the USAF.

All PAF has to do is take the template, customize it, make it smaller for the subcontinent, and viola, Pak could have a UCAV that evens out India's numbers advantage.

 

[Deino]

Seems the Aussies have one upped even the USAF.
...
All PAF has to do is take the template, customize it, make it smaller for the subcontinent, and viola, Pak could have a UCAV that evens out India's numbers advantage.

Yes for sure, "the Aussies have one upped even the USAF"! Did you ever notice that this type is being developed not by "Aussies" but by "Boeings Airpower Teaming System", a subsidiary of Boeing fully dependent to its US mother company.

As such, there is no way "PAF has to do is take the template, customize it, make it smaller for the subcontinent, and viola, Pak could have a UCAV that evens out India's numbers advantage."

Since Yes for sure, just like adding a new app to your mobile or "simply developing a stretched twin-engined J-10 alone". That all is plug & play.

Oh come on man ... such posts are exactly the reason why no-one but certain very young and very grumpy old men take you seriously.

 

[FuturePAF]

Interesting new design/patent filed by China

https://twitter.com/x/status/1320962300057133056