Process of Manufacturing Next Gen Fighter at PAC To Start Soon

[cmpk]

as far as my understanding of the matter goes, next generation means next generation, not the same air craft upgraded to a better version. So, no, it's not the next version of JF-17. You can't have a next gen air craft with the same air-frame & engine, sounds bemusing.

J-31 will certainly show up soon with a better version. My bet is on it, the likely jet that we'd produce here in PAC.

 

[araz]

Sir,






Sir you are stating 7-9 years for procuring an aircraft hat is already being tested is not feasible. The cost of this project would have risen exponentially and PAF would not become a 50/50 partner.

In the same amount of time Pakistan could produce an independent program which would be 70-80 % indigenous. More over the cost of this project would also be lower than other available aircraft in the market.




.

Hello.
Going by what happened at the Zuhai air show and the fact that the J31 was not flown, it is a sign of how complicated things are when you are designing fifth generation fighters. A span of 2 decades is not an unlikely period even with all the help from the chinese. When you go solo you will fall on your face and probably still be there come 2-3 decades.
So in reality there will be nothing happenning till the block3 is well inducted and settled. If you assume the strat date of induction to be 2019 giving a year for inadvertant and unplanned delays and at 20 planes a year you are looking at 2 1/2 yrs for it to be inducted. Newer technology may well mean your hands are fulltuill 2023 -2025 learning newer tecghnology its advantages and limits. So if you buy something it will be off the shelf and with the J31 currently seeming to be going no where that aint happenning. For J20 you will look at fulfillemnt of CHINESE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL SO 2023-25 seems reasonable for induction of J31 equivalent.
A

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hello.
Going by what happened at the Zuhai air show and the fact that the J31 was not flown, it is a sign of how complicated things are when you are designing fifth generation fighters. A span of 2 decades is not an unlikely period even with all the help from the chinese. When you go solo you will fall on your face and probably still be there come 2-3 decades.
So in reality there will be nothing happenning till the block3 is well inducted and settled. If you assume the strat date of induction to be 2019 giving a year for inadvertant and unplanned delays and at 20 planes a year you are looking at 2 1/2 yrs for it to be inducted. Newer technology may well mean your hands are fulltuill 2023 -2025 learning newer tecghnology its advantages and limits. So if you buy something it will be off the shelf and with the J31 currently seeming to be going no where that aint happenning. For J20 you will look at fulfillemnt of CHINESE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL SO 2023-25 seems reasonable for induction of J31 equivalent.
A

Sir,
J-31 is getting major structural changes that is the reason why it was not shown. If the wing designs are available then it becomes easier to mate it to various fuselage with minor changes. Something that is not fully achieved by China where as USA has experimented for many decades to identify the most ideal design.

If J-31 would have been using a similar delta wing the J-20 uses it would have been up and flying. The difference in flight characters could be very different by using the method on how these wings are bonded with the fuselage.
If you compare the F-15 wing with F-35 it is very similar in basic design and the same is the case with F-22.

Check out the YF-23

 

[Hamza913]

Point being?
I mean i cannot understand what was the things in my post that made you say all this? Was i saying any different?
I am beginning to think that this is sort of a habit.

Anyway, YES, JF17 was not meant to be a stealth fighter plane as MANY here try to make it. With the planned upgrades this plane will surely be a formidable 4th gen plane. AESA radar, IRST, HMD and HOBS. That still do not makes it a 4++ gen plane and frankly, we DO NOT want JF17 to be in that category either. For us it will remain as an affordable home grown options that we can and will procure in large numbers. There might be some 4.5 gen option that PAF looks at but personally I feel that the next new procurement will be of a fifth gen. (and I feel that it still won’t close the need of 4.5 gen to work alongside the stealth planes). Lesson learned from the JF17 evolution and also the 5th gen procurement may lead to a 4.5 gen option to work alongside our 5th generation plane.


Now lest see if you can try to agree or disagree with this without saying the same thing and just changing the wording.


I understand sir and that i why i asked you WHAT makes you hopeful? What are the things that you think will come in blk-3 making it a 4++ gen plane.
The improvements that are planned and likely will make it much more potent aircraft remaining in the same category.

http://quwa.org/2015/08/30/jf-17-iii-jf-17-block-3/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder#Prototypes
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/16...-JF-17-Thunder-Mashshaks-says-Saudi-air-chief

The fact that countries like Saudi Arabia are considering it, as well as statements from the PAF itself and the specifications we have so far, cause me to believe it will be 4.5th gen or close to it.

 

[araz]

Sir,
J-31 is getting major structural changes that is the reason why it was not shown. If the wing designs are available then it becomes easier to mate it to various fuselage with minor changes. Something that is not fully achieved by China where as USA has experimented for many decades to identify the most ideal design.

If J-31 would have been using a similar delta wing the J-20 uses it would have been up and flying. The difference in flight characters could be very different by using the method on how these wings are bonded with the fuselage.
If you compare the F-15 wing with F-35 it is very similar in basic design and the same is the case with F-22.

Check out the YF-23

It still does not contradict what I have been saying. If you take another year to fly the next prototype, and PAF likes it then negotiations will start. In the mean while it will progress on to weapons integration and low rate production. Even if it is as simple as JFT you will look at another 2-3 years.This could well take us into 2021-22. At this stage if you make an order and it takes 3 yrs to deliver your first plane and another 2 yrs to complete the order. Meanwhile you will be training on the plane and learning tactics on it.Another 2-3 yrs pass. So where are you now? If you have the likely delays of a new generation fighter you will become proficient on it in 2030. This is not my new car that I buy today and am comfortable on it in a weeks time.
A

 

[Riz]

Hello.
Going by what happened at the Zuhai air show and the fact that the J31 was not flown, it is a sign of how complicated things are when you are designing fifth generation fighters. A span of 2 decades is not an unlikely period even with all the help from the chinese. When you go solo you will fall on your face and probably still be there come 2-3 decades.
So in reality there will be nothing happenning till the block3 is well inducted and settled. If you assume the strat date of induction to be 2019 giving a year for inadvertant and unplanned delays and at 20 planes a year you are looking at 2 1/2 yrs for it to be inducted. Newer technology may well mean your hands are fulltuill 2023 -2025 learning newer tecghnology its advantages and limits. So if you buy something it will be off the shelf and with the J31 currently seeming to be going no where that aint happenning. For J20 you will look at fulfillemnt of CHINESE REQUIREMENTS AS WELL SO 2023-25 seems reasonable for induction of J31 equivalent.
A

Maybe chines are too smart they did not flown j.31 because they were flying j.20 first time officially in there airshow, so might be they want all world to focus only on Mr.j-20

 

[araz]

Maybe chines are too smart they did not flown j.31 because they were flying j.20 first time officially in there airshow, so might be they want all world to focus only on Mr.j-20

The news regarding j31 was that the project is facing serious delays due to lack of committment from PLAAF and the Chinese government and consequent cash injection. Unless that happens we wont see it in the air.
Interestingly the last interview by a retd.Air Marshal of PAF repeatedly mentioned J20 rather than j31.
A

 

[SQ8]

The news regarding j31 was that the project is facing serious delays due to lack of committment from PLAAF and the Chinese government and consequent cash injection. Unless that happens we wont see it in the air.
Interestingly the last interview by a retd.Air Marshal of PAF repeatedly mentioned J20 rather than j31.
A

The J-31 and J-20 are not the only Chinese 5th gen designs and many are pretty much sitting ready to be put into prototype form. However, there are both tangible and non-tangible interests to take the approach taken by the JF-17 team to this project as well. Except now there may be more aerospace engineers available(if of OK quality) from places like air university and so on.

Besides keeping the technology development within the country, the other advantage is to those people and collaborative entities who have put their stakes on lining their own pockets with the JF-17 project; and those pockets are always hungry.

 

[Tank131]

With the fact that PLAAF has not committed funds to the J31, the way PAC will be "developing its own next gen fighter" is contracting the j31 design team to shift work to PAC. IF chinese govt allowed this, PAC would fund the project, design would be done in house by SAC engineers contracted to PAC, while PAC engineers learn/work alongside them to develop the local industry a d knowledge base as well as contribute their own experience /expertise (most of China's for export products come through Pakistan military because of its experience with world class tech/equipment both in house and through exercises with western powers).

 

[Maxpane]

I think paf is looking for six generation aircraft and they has started work . just my view

 

[Syed Taha Wajahat]

Dont forget TAI-TFX, we can work with turkey too.

 

[araz]

With the fact that PLAAF has not committed funds to the J31, the way PAC will be "developing its own next gen fighter" is contracting the j31 design team to shift work to PAC. IF chinese govt allowed this, PAC would fund the project, design would be done in house by SAC engineers contracted to PAC, while PAC engineers learn/work alongside them to develop the local industry a d knowledge base as well as contribute their own experience /expertise (most of China's for export products come through Pakistan military because of its experience with world class tech/equipment both in house and through exercises with western powers).

Personally I think we lack the expertise to take on such a big project by ourselves. The financial outlay will soon become unmanageable for us.Dont get me wrong; I would be very happy to see a fifth generation project coming to fruition in Pakistan but on the face of it it looks improbable. The other thing is our need for such fighters would not exceed 60-80 at the most. So what advantage do we get by investing for limited returns.
A

 

[Falcon26]

Personally I think we lack the expertise to take on such a big project by ourselves. The financial outlay will soon become unmanageable for us.Dont get me wrong; I would be very happy to see a fifth generation project coming to fruition in Pakistan but on the face of it it looks improbable. The other thing is our need for such fighters would not exceed 60-80 at the most. So what advantage do we get by investing for limited returns.
A

Will be another Agosta-90B situation in which Pakistan pays more for TOT but then doesn't order more than 3 platforms. Spending billions building 5th generation technology when you seriously lack in 4.5 generation catogery is foolhardy initiative. Better to work with the Turks or China and join their existing programs rather than start from scratch.

 

[jamal18]

One aspect nobody is considering is that it has to be produced in enough numbers for it to be financially viable.
A reason for having partners is that each country guarantees to buy a certain amount.

One country working on its own, unless a super power, wouldn't be able to buy enough for the financial figures to add up.

 

[Tank131]

All of that is true, but a chinese designed stealth fighter and made under Pakistan flag (as long as its systems are 1st class) would be the ideal next generation fighter for GCC countries and south east asia.