It was 250 in the beginning, it was cut to150 and now 250 again!? I Think it is a typing error, since the following sentence contradicts it: "An official of the Pakistan Air Force said it would soon start the process of manufacturing the next generation fighter aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra." the same facilities where the JF-17 are made. so to guess it right, the next generation manufacturing will start "soon" after the JF-17 Blk 3 is done with..
Sir,
PAF had an initial requirement of 250 JF-17's, but once sanctions were removed PAF wanted to procure approximately 70 F-16 block 52's. Funds were available till the Earth Quake and Floods, this was the time the orders were cut. Still PAF hoped to procure more F-16 block 15/30 or 40 from the market and upgrade them along with 36 new Block 52's.
Once the chapter of having new Block 52's ended, the interest in older F-16's is also fading away. JF-17 is almost the same price of the old F-16's without the threat of sanctions hence the numbers have been raised once again.
JF-17 Block 3 is still on paper hence what it is capable will only be seen once it is ready.
1) Is feasible (but why reinvent the wheel?) it will be JF-31 based on J-31 v2 and will evolve to v3 and v4 if possible
2) Take Turkey for example, even with its access to the most advanced technologies and no money problems it is still in design stage of a next generation fighter, Pakistan can join in but dreaming about a whole 5th generation fighter, designed and made in Pakistan might need some decades to realize.. the First step in the right direction is point 1) (see above)
Sir,
PAF and now PN both have a requirement to have multi-engine aircraft for deep strike roles. This requirement can be fulfilled by procuring an other 4.5+ /++ solution from China / Russia / Europe / USA. Many threads were posted here as well as on other forums and news papers.
There is an alternate to the above mentioned requirement by not adding an other 4.5+/ ++ fighter aircraft but rather procuring a 5th Gen aircraft. Again there are options available in this regards. PAF can procure the J-31, TFX or KFX directly. USA and Russia would not entertain such a request from PAF for some time and there is no European project regarding 5th Gen aircraft.
Now regarding your comment why reinvent the wheel?
PAF does not have to reinvent any thing only procure different bits and peaces of a puzzle and assemble an entirely new aircraft from scratch within the same costs as required to procure from any country in the world. Take a look at the EFT it is produced all over EUROPE and it has no flaws when it is assembled finally. The same is being done at Airbus and Boeing to limit the costs and to achieve the best available technology.
It is highly likely that PAF would be looking towards a single engine 5th gen aircraft. Now that PAF has got advance engine options this looks very realistic.
Turkey had selected the designs of the TFX but it does not have the relevant expertise to manufacture and assemble. However China has the manufacturing and assembling technologies.
IF PAF along with PAC decided to procure the Turkish design of the single engine TFX and China to provide infrastructure to manufacture and assemble it in Pakistan then this could be produced in less cost and time.
Money factor I guess
Pakistan would love to join as joint venture when China is bearing all cost of planning, R&D and production. All we will do is... Ohhh this is how we do it... ohhh ok this is how it is done... ooohhh okk good that you have taught us in this joint venture and funded the whole project why not give us few squadrons for buy now pay later, cash in 2040
The reality is 5th generation projects are too expensive to participate as joint venture unless the cost is shared by several nations. Pakistan should convince Saudi Arabia and Turkey and start a fresh 5th generation program with technical resources from China and Turkey, funds from Saudis and Made in Pakistan. The only joint venture truly possible for Pakistan is in such a way.
Pakistan should be satisfied with few squadrons from China in coming years and I don't foresee participation in 5th generation program for couple of years
PS: Says the most non technical and non-defence professional person on this forum
Sir,
It is possible that if TFX single engine design that was rejected can be Purchased and then working with China Pakistan could not just help Turkey in this field but also successfully start a new 5th gen program with less cost.
Iam saying that the next acquisition for PAF will be in the 2023- 25 bracket which maybe the j31/ equivalent. This is my analysis and I am happy to be proven wrong. If what I see is true you will only see newer JFTs and possibly older 16s being inducted.
A
Sir you are stating 7-9 years for procuring an aircraft hat is already being tested is not feasible. The cost of this project would have risen exponentially and PAF would not become a 50/50 partner.
In the same amount of time Pakistan could produce an independent program which would be 70-80 % indigenous. More over the cost of this project would also be lower than other available aircraft in the market.
So are you saying that an AESA is what will make JF-17 a 4.5 gen plane? If that is what you are saying i am sorry but i cannot agree with you. There are a lot of other things, lots of them that will need work to actually take the plane to a 4.5 gen designation. A true 4th gen and one of the better ones in that generation is what i am expecting JFT to be if we are only talking about an AESA as you mentioned.
True my friend. However i am not sure if we are getting all that and then some in the Blk-3. As for now there are only a couple of things that are being worked upon. AESA being on of them. I do not see any major structural changes and thus not much additional firepower or range and also not much happening to reduce RCS based on design.
Engine is probable but not a confirmed happening. No TV likely, it is a 50:50 at best. The chances of Super Cruise are even more slim so it will fall short in terms of range, agility and speed as well as on station time with respect ot true 4.5 gen planes. Plus fire power is a source of concern as well.
For EW again, not for sure. Some little upgrades might come but will it be on par with the SPECTRA or the Gripen NG suite or the Euro fighter!!
In short, i feel that Blk-3 will be some excellent 4th gen plane, among the best in that gen but not a true 4.5 gen.
@dsr478
Sir,
You know very well that the JF-17 design is good to a point and without major modifications it can not achieve 4.5++ characteristics.
Realistically JF-17 program would not go beyond block 4 unless and until almost the entire structure is not redesigned some thing that was also done with the F-16 block 52's.
What might be possible till block 4 is to some how develop this aircraft to have CFT and stealth weapons pod capability with good ECM and a better engine. This would no doubt increase its survivability factor which is the only way one can go with the existing design. If this is coupled with some next gen missile and AESA it can still remain quite potent against 5th gen platforms if fielded in numbers.
