Prime Minister Modi Fumbles on Pakistan

[Icarus]

How would you characterize our stance if we invited Baloch separatists to New Delhi?? We can play the same game too...

Why not?

If you want peace, accept LOC as defacto border and move on. Just other day Afghanistan envoy had some nice words about you guys.

We want peace, but not the brand India dishes out to her less fortunate neighbors like Bangladesh and Nepal.
As for the Afghan Govt, they are puppets with alot of hands rammed up their back sides.

Pakistan has no clue about projecting its soft power. If anything Pakistan is perceived more and more has troubled nation with internal strife and turmoil.

Being the centre of a global war doesn't help but we try our best.

yes that is sure what you Pakistan what ist it, weak and frail India. small but triumphant Pakistan, bringer of the light, lords of the sub-Continent.

well guess what not anymore - briyani diplomacy has finished.

Can you try not being incoherent?

Soft terrorism ? I do think world doesn't know much beyond that about pakistan !

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Topic:Nytimes is well known india basher,abused modi throught election :|

They will, in due time, especially if this keeps up.

Well we dont think so.Pakistans soft image in international stage attained its peak when US hunt down their enemy in Abottabad.May you can increase image among Arab nations.But when it consider to whole world ,Pakistan done it once and for all..

Bad press is never permanent, case in point, Golden Temple Massacre.

yeah, you want peace by frequently violating the ceasefire

Indians violate the ceasefire, we are already locked on another front, don't care for wasting some ammo on guys we're not looking to kill, atleast for the moment.

 

[Icarus]

Perceptions aside Pakistan knew full well what would happen if it went ahead with talks with thew Hurriyat leaders as the GoI had informed them explicitly.

Pakistan created a situation where they would win (politically) no matter what India did- India doesn't cancel the talks and Pakistan holds talk with separatists and India looks weak at home (and abroad) and Pakistan looks strong back home, India cancels talks and Pakistan comes off looking like the victim?

Finally, someone talks sense, I might not entirely agree with your assessment but it is definitely the most apt analysis on this matter so far.

I'm sorry sir but I don't buy this nonsense about Pakistan's image being softened abroad, whilst many may not side with India they certainly would never sympathise with Pakistan not after all that has come out regarding your nation.

The operation in NWA.
Lowest attack density in last decade.
Shift of global jihad to Iraq.
And even the latest non-violent demonstrations.

All these points have added to give Pakistan a slightly softer image, albeit still of a country that is quite volatile. The latest spate of cross border shootings that have killed Pakistani civilians exclusively and then the breakdown of talks have also helped our image a bit. Pakistan is at a point in being unpopular that we have nothing to lose and all to gain.

You know the problem is entirely different dont you. PA is only targeting the terrorists who target Pakistan and a free pass is given to those who target India.

This fact has not been unnoticed in India.

This is not true, most former LeT fighters who were upset with Pakistan's change of policy fled to Waziristan and integrated with the Taliban. They are being engaged along with the Taliban.

 

[Vinayak Tiwari]

If anything, Modi's tough line and less than friendly overtures are strengthening Pakistan's soft image abroad, a feat that our own government has repeatedly failed at. For the first time in three decades, Pakistan is being seen as the country that wants peace and India as the instigator of regional tensions.

The last line you said, just reverse it and you will get it all right.

 

[Contrarian]

This is not true, most former LeT fighters who were upset with Pakistan's change of policy fled to Waziristan and integrated with the Taliban. They are being engaged along with the Taliban.

You said it yourself. Those of LeT (and other India focused terrorist groups) who started operations against Pakistan are being engaged.

Those terrorist factions still loyal to Pakistan - even the Afghan focused ones along with India focused ones - are given a blind eye by PA.

And as US withdraws and Taliban comes to power again, GoI is under zero doubt that Pakistan will start its old doctrine again.

 

[Vinayak Tiwari]

We will call Pakistan peaceful when they will withdraw all the forces from Kashmir and when India will occupy every inch of Kashmir because only that will be the time a plebiscite will be held. And this was the treaty. Till then, keep working hard.

 

[Icarus]

You said it yourself. Those of LeT (and other India focused terrorist groups) who started operations against Pakistan are being engaged.

Those terrorist factions still loyal to Pakistan - even the Afghan focused ones along with India focused ones - are given a blind eye by PA.

And as US withdraws and Taliban comes to power again, GoI is under zero doubt that Pakistan will start its old doctrine again.

Pakistan is past the stage of proxy war, its a dead horse and we've had to pay a hefty price for very limited geo-political advantage, which makes it an unsuitable compromise. The new security establishment does not look to continue floating a failed strategy and we've moved on, assets have been disbanded and there has been no active support to militant groups in both Kashmir and Afghanistan since 2004.
I agree though that we have been slightly selective about engaging Afghan Militant groups but that has not been because of any complacency or tacit support, but solely because we can fight so many people at a time and if a particular Afghan group extends a truce to us, we attempt to make it work but that does not mean they are allowed to operate from our soil, we simply stop operating across the Durand Line against each other. There is nothing hidden about such agreements and liaison committees are notified accordingly. The US and ISAF also have such accords with a number of militants in Afghanistan as well. It's not an exclusive act that only Pakistan engages in.

 

[paranoiarocks]

They will, in due time, especially if this keeps up.

No they wont.nothing substantial on ground that makes world believe pakistan is becoming normal nation.

Establishment still in control ,proxies are still part of the strategic game of asymmetrical warfare (sexy term for LET,haqqani like groups).

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan is past the stage of proxy war, its a dead horse and we've had to pay a hefty price for very limited geo-political advantage, which makes it an unsuitable compromise. The new security establishment does not look to continue floating a failed strategy and we've moved on, assets have been disbanded and there has been no active support to militant groups in both Kashmir and Afghanistan since 2004.

You and I seem to be talking on a tangent.
GoI agrees that Pakistan currently(and has not been for a while) is not actively supporting the terrorist groups in Kashmir like in the past. It is however turning a blind eye to them - which is very different from the past when Pakistan did everything from fund to arm to train these people. But it is also not removing these people. The reasons for this may vary from:

' PA does not want to make more terrorists hostile to it to PA feels that they have a role later as passive assets to mount pressure on India.'

However, it is also GoI's understanding that this policy will continue for a while and should Taliban take over Afghanistan, this blind eye(ie Neutral outlook) to India focused groups will cause increasing harm as the terrorists will funnel from Afghanistan and KPK to Kashmir. And Pakistan will be happy that the terrorist energies have a distraction in the name of India rather than having them fight Pakistan.

 

[Icarus]

No they wont.nothing substantial on ground that makes world believe pakistan is becoming normal nation.

I would disagree but you are entitled to your opinion.

Establishment still in control ,proxies are still part of the strategic game of asymmetrical warfare (sexy term for LET,haqqani like groups).

No, just convenient patsies for whatever goes wrong in the otherwise flawless society that is India and Afghanistan *sarcasm*.

You and I seem to be talking on a tangent.
GoI agrees that Pakistan currently(and has not been for a while) is not actively supporting the terrorist groups in Kashmir like in the past. It is however turning a blind eye to them - which is very different from the past when Pakistan did everything from fund to arm to train these people. But it is also not removing these people. The reasons for this may vary from:

' PA does not want to make more terrorists hostile to it to PA feels that they have a role later as passive assets to mount pressure on India.'

Depends on what you mean by turning a blind eye, whereas we are not actively pursuing Kashmiri Freedom Fighters as we would do with the Taliban, that does not mean that we shirk from our responsibility and let militants carry out their activities. Any Kashmiri militants picked up are dealt with in accordance with protocol and their network is dismantled.
Why they are not pursued actively is simply because of two reasons:

1. They don't present a priority threat to our interests.
2. Our entire resources are funneled towards fighting the Taliban, I being one of those resources as I started my career from desks that deal with India and was subsequently moved to counter-insurgency along with much of my branch.

However, it is also GoI's understanding that this policy will continue for a while and should Taliban take over Afghanistan, this blind eye(ie Neutral outlook) to India focused groups will cause increasing harm as the terrorists will funnel from Afghanistan and KPK to Kashmir. And Pakistan will be happy that the terrorist energies have a distraction in the name of India rather than having them fight Pakistan.

I would disagree with that assessment, the Taliban are not a single body, they are a loose collection of groups. Many of whom have fought with PA and see Pakistan as a country that panders to the interests of the 'Kuffar', if the Taliban do come to power, rest assured that the majority will dictate policy and their energies will be focused towards Pakistan. Which has now become the real prize for all Islamist Militants across the world.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Then why are crying when we have cancelled the talks .

are you mentally retarded or something have you even read my posts? I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm celebrating that our Foreign Office made a right policy decision.

if anything - the only regrets ive seen are from indian anal-ysts

PM's Pakistan Outreach Ends in Predictable Whimper

 

[kurup]

are you mentally retarded or something have you even read my posts? I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm celebrating that our Foreign Office made a right policy decision.

if anything - the only regrets ive seen are from indian anal-ysts

PM's Pakistan Outreach Ends in Predictable Whimper

You should ask the same question yourself .

Majority Indian members in the forum have supported this move .

Can't say the same about Pakistani members majority of whom are complaining and whining .

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You should ask the same question yourself .

Majority Indian members in the forum have supported this move .

Can't say the same about Pakistani members majority of whom are complaining and whining .

who is complaining??

nobody in Pakistan even knew about these waste of time "talks" anyways nor do we care

 

[nair]

who is complaining??

nobody in Pakistan even knew about these waste of time "talks" anyways nor do we care

Even in India no one knew until it was called off......

 

[GURU DUTT]

Even in India no one knew until it was called off......

do you realli beleave in what you just said sir or should i say are you sure about it

 

[Indrani]

do you realli beleave in what you just said sir or should i say are you sure about it

You said something about the flight of the secular folks from Delhi, that they are moving abroad. Can you elaborate some more please.