Power generation through coal gasification by next year: Dr. Samar

[VCheng]

we live in Pakistan not in USA

A device made in Lahore may worth 20,000 rupees and probably cost 500 dollars in USA

We have cheaper employment, can build infrastructure cheaply, can build the whole plant in reduced costs

Coal bhi apna hai - so may believe the scientists...Dr Samar Mubarakmand is too good to be doubted like that.

Samar Mubarakmand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know about Dr. Mubarikmand, and I have no doubt he is a brilliant scientist.

My skepticism should NOT be interpreted as any disrespect.

Even with the local advantages that you mention, the figures still won't match up. Sorry.

 

[Hyde]

I know about Dr. Mubarikmand, and I have no doubt he is a brilliant scientist.

My skepticism should NOT be interpreted as any disrespect.

Even with the local advantages that you mention, the figures still won't match up. Sorry.

What figures aren't matching up?

All i see is at one place by mistake he said KW instead of Watt and in next post I replied by saying that a typical plant by your estimation and his estimation is same if you replace the KW to Watt

We were in verge of signing deals with other korean and chinese companies for coal powered plants that were usually 1000MW for 1.5 - 2 billion dollars....

All deals were scrapped for various reasons (negligence by the GoP)

Now he is saying the samething but relying upon the coal gasification instead of Coal powered plants. So as per him this is a cheaper alternative so the total estimation of capital required must be less

1 billion dollars for 1000MW plant does not seems unrealistic to me. It is possible

The thing is.... we wasted 20 years in the same debate and he is finally doing something for the country. The gas is expected to be extracted by march 2011 (after 4 months so it is no longer unrealistic) and that will generate 100 MW of electricity and as per him thats a pilot project and another 1000MW project will be completed by 2015

Now these are the projects he has been assigned for..... future investors or the government can increase the capacity in future

Here you wouldn't require trains or other kind of stuff you were talking about... its all science here

 

[VCheng]

What figures aren't matching up?

All i see is at one place by mistake he said KW instead of Watt and in next post I replied by saying that a typical plant by your estimation and his estimation is same if you replace the KW to Watt

We were in verge of signing deals with other korean and chinese companies for coal powered plants that were usually 1000MW for 1.5 - 2 billion dollars....

All deals were scrapped for various reasons (negligence by the GoP)

Now he is saying the samething but relying upon the coal gasification instead of Coal powered plants.

1 billion dollars for 1000MW plant does not seems unrealistic to me. It is possible

The thing is.... we wasted 20 years in the same debate and he is finally doing something for the country. The gas is expected to be extracted by march 2011 (after 4 months so it is no longer unrealistic) and that will generate 100 MW of electricity and as per him thats a pilot project and another 1000MW project will be completed by 2015

Now these are the projects he has been assigned for..... future investors or the government can increase the capacity in future

Here you wouldn't require trains or other kind of stuff you were talking about... its all science here

Oh the science is plausible, and Samar is a great man to be in charge of such a project.

The figures that I refer to as not matching up are the eventual costs per unit of energy delivered to the grid, whether as electricity or a combustible gas.

 

[SQ8]

Today I saw Dr AQ Khan and Dr Samar Mubarak in Muhammad Ali Jinnah University Convocation that really was a pleasure to see. These two scientists have proved their worth over the years not in nuclear development but in defence, education, social, medical, industrial and agricultural fields as well. Now is the time that we put all of our best and proven minds on projects of national building like coal gasifiation by pitching them as rivals like KRL and NESCOM.

There is a rivalry between those two..and a bitter one.
since each's organization lays claim to the bomb as their major effort..with the other contributing.

 

[mehboobkz]

and another 1000MW project will be completed by 2015

Its pity to have to wait five years to get just 1000MW.

 

[VCheng]

There is a rivalry between those two..and a bitter one.
since each's organization lays claim to the bomb as their major effort..with the other contributing.

That rivalry was caused by political sycophants, not these two by themselves.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

Its pity to have to wait five years to get just 1000MW.

Large scale power plants take a LOT of time to plan and develop. Five years would be quick for a project of the size proposed.

 

[Hyde]

Its pity to have to wait five years to get just 1000MW.

Its just a beginning of major projects

After the successful completion of these projects we have several 1000MW projects in different blocks of these coal mines (mostly foreign investment)

at least 10,000MW in next 10-15 years when our total energy demands will have been multiplied

 

[alibaz]

There is a rivalry between those two..and a bitter one.
since each's organization lays claim to the bomb as their major effort..with the other contributing.

Both lay claims but we all know that both organizations had great contribution in bomb. In fact Dr Samar came to public notice after the tests and since then there was a great competition between two organization various versions of Shaheens and Ghauries started coming up. I think these great names are source of pride and inspiration for engineers and workers of those organizations to gain an edge over the other. I think its healthy competition.

 

[greatsequence]

There is a rivalry between those two..and a bitter one.
since each's organization lays claim to the bomb as their major effort..with the other contributing.

Competition is always good.

 

[Xestan]

Guys I heard Dr. Saab saying that Thar reserves can produce 50,000 Megawatt electricity/year for next 500 years and can produce 500 Million Barrel Diesel/year also for next 500 years

Shukkar Alhumdulillah!!

 

[VCheng]

To stay ON TOPIC:

A large scale power project such as that based on UCG technology will need accurate surveying of the layout of coal seams, plus robotic and chemical knowhow for large scale gasification, with safeguards for avoiding large-scale pollution of underground water resources.

Then, the gas so produced, must be either utilized in a power generating unit(s) or a liquefaction plant, both of which must be financed, installed and then reliably operated, without generating a large operating loss.

I wish the team every success, but I remain skeptical (for good reasons, I might add).

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

Guys I heard Dr. Saab saying that Thar reserves can produce 50,000 Megawatt electricity/year for next 500 years and can produce 500 Million Barrel Diesel/year also for next 500 years

Shukkar Alhumdulillah!!

Just because he said it does not mean it will actually be realised.

(I do not mean any disrespect.)

 

[Hyde]

To stay ON TOPIC:

A large scale power project such as that based on UCG technology will need accurate surveying of the layout of coal seams, plus robotic and chemical knowhow for large scale gasification, with safeguards for avoiding large-scale pollution of underground water resources.

Then, the gas so produced, must be either utilized in a power generating unit(s) or a liquefaction plant, both of which must be financed, installed and then reliably operated, without generating a large operating loss.

I wish the team every success, but I remain skeptical (for good reasons, I might add).

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------



Just because he said it does not mean it will actually be realised.

(I do not mean any disrespect.)

I think almost 6-10 months ago I was having an argument with one of the Indian guy here who was saying Coal Gasification is not feasible and will never happen in Pakistan. Dr Samar has been working on this project since past at least 2 years now and those days it was only rumoured about Coal-gasifcation plants and I was saying to him ke bhai mujhe is ka itna nahi pata

but i can assure you... after few months you will find the results as he is the top notch scientist and not an idiot. He knows what he is talking about and if he is saying the gas will start to flow by year 2014 (those days he was saying it will happen in 2014/15) then take it as it is.

See the project rather than being postponed is now on the verge of completion. The gas production is about to start

So I would request you to please either enlighten us with the minimum amount you think would require for such a massive project or just take it as his words... I could agree with you but I know these scientists are evil genius.

PS: I heard the technology of Coal-gasification was introduced in 1920s but I heard him saying that the technology they are using was only introduced recently. It was introduced only 5-6 years ago and thats what attracted him to take initiatives for this project so I am sure the nature of this technology would be different to 90 years old technology you guyz are talking about.

 

[VCheng]

^^^ I wish Samar and his team every success, and hope to congratulate you here on PDF when gas starts flowing to benefit Pakistan's economy!

 

[niaz]

South Africa (Sasol) was pioneers in coal gasification in the modern era. Since 1980, China has been in the forefront of coal gasification.

Shell Oil Company has made lot of advances in the coal gasification technology. University of North Dakota is also famous for pioneering research into conversion of lignite coal (same as Thar coal) into syngas. Based on experience in China, it roughly costs 1-billion dollars to produce 1-TCF of syngas.

However, I would guess that in this particular case ‘Underground coal gasification’ process is being used. Basically you burn coal in situ by drilling bore holes and injecting air and steam. What comes out is a mixture of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, carbon monoxide, methane & hydrogen sulphide. The syngas can be subsequently burnt in a gas turbine for power generation.

This process was pioneered in USSR and has also been tested in the US, UK and in Spain. Understand UG coal gasification plants are already in operation in Russia and Uzbekistan.

Finally, we should not ignore our erstwhile neighbor. Don’t know the latest situation but ONGC of India was setting up a pilot project in Surat. Something of similar nature is also supposed to be happening in Rajasthan.

Next step is conversion of syngas into liquid fuel. Sasol of South Africa are one of successful commercial producers of petroleum fuels from syngas in modern times.

 

[alibaz]

Pakistan can generate 50,000 MW power soon: Dr Samar

Nuclear Scientist and a renowned nuclear physicist Dr Samar Mubarak has said that work on the Thar Coal Power Project is underway and added that within 3-4 months Pakistan would be able to generate 50,000MW energy from gas. Dr Samar further said that the Recodak copper and gold reserves were bigger than the Saindak project and were also superior than Saindak and Pakistan does have the technology to separate both the metals. . “We don’t need any foreign company to do this, we have the technology to separate these two metals on our own”, Dr Samar asserted. The nuclear scientist said that, “the protection of atomic arsenal is hard than its making; conspiracies against Pakistan is on since we have become an atomic power”. Dr Samar Mubarak is the founding Chairman of Pakistan's National Engineering and Scientific Commission where he initiated the Missile Integration Programme in 1987. Currently, Dr. Samarkand Mubarakmand is supervising coal mining practiced on scientific lines, for the Thar Coal Power Project.
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