Potential Weaknesses of PAF and Possible Solutions

[MastanKhan]

One can say, Israel is much smaller than Pakistan, yet it had acquired tankers long before us. PAF planners would have looked into all the eventualities before investing millions. It's a double edge sword, the other side also has them.

Windjammer,

Please speak in technical terms---. This kind of statement must not be acceptable----.


Israel basically has a kind of secure air space---none of its enemies have the capability to enter the air space to be close enough to its refueller assets. The known enemies of israel do not have aircraft and air to air missiles to take out the air tankers from a distance---.

These blanket statements that you kids make are ridiculous---to say the least.

Israel has stuff that all its enemies put together do not have----.

 

[ziaulislam]

Windjammer,

Please speak in technical terms---. This kind of statement must not be acceptable----.


Israel basically has a kind of secure air space---none of its enemies have the capability to enter the air space to be close enough to its refueller assets. The known enemies of israel do not have aircraft and air to air missiles to take out the air tankers from a distance---.

These blanket statements that you kids make are ridiculous---to say the least.

Israel has stuff that all its enemies put together do not have----.

depends whether you put saudis and Turkish as there neighbors or not , if yes then check out saudi arsenal,its equal if not superior.

 

[Mav3rick]

How did you come to the 250 figure? If you are taking about the future then ok. As of now, PAF only has 18 F-16Block52 plus less than 10(?) upgraded MLU F-16, which are confirmed to be BVR capable. Has the BVR been fully integrated into JF-17 and given operational clearance? PAF Mirage-3 and F-7 does not have BVR. Mirage-5 does not even have a radar, let alone a BVR.

Just a little update for you, ROSE updates on Mirages enabled BVR induction. We did not purchase 500 AMRAAM BVR + 1k SD-10C BVR missiles for display.

 

[Mav3rick]

I can only tell you guys, not provide any proof, that if God forbid, any war breaks out b/w India & Pakistan......IAF will have to counter FD-2000/HQ-9B/C Long Range SAM systems along with other SAM systems. Under these defensive umbrellas, PAF will be in an excellent position to defend her airspace against intrusion.

While IAF invests in 5th generation PAK-FA, I'd like PAF to invest in stealth UCAV's that can carry out CAP missions and engage enemies by themselves, 10-15 years of R&D can be very fruitful.

 

[veekysingh]

Well O.K .. Lets cut it down to 250!

So approximately 250 fighter aircrafts loaded with BVRs and supported by AWACS/AEW&C will be facing Indian thrust into Pakistan. In the Pakistani airspace , we will have numerical advantage over IAF fighters. Add medium range SAMs and electronic warfare in the picture. PAF can effectively thwart IAF from gaining any advantage over the battle field. This is the main purpose of the force. PAF's offensive role will be very limited. Pakistan Army's Strategic Missile Command will carry out ballistic and cruise missile strikes all over India , until the cease fire is called !

Don't forget about stand-off weapons like Ra'ad that Pakistan Air Force carries. PAF doesn't need to go deep inside Indian territory. It can devastate Indian forward air bases by using its stand-off weapons effectively. Also , upto 15-20 days , Pakistan can hold full-thrust all out Indian invasion of its land. Remember , there would be thousands of tanks , aircrafts , soldiers , submarines , ships , artillery etc that would be battling out Indian forces in the sea , land, and air ...so we are good. Until then (first 15-20 days) , Pakistan would have inflicted some serious damage on Indian Forces , Indian cities , Indian infrastructure , and specially Indian economy. Indians won't even think of taking the war that far. A week is the MAXIMUM Indians would fight before the cease fire would be called by both sides. Indians won't risk crossing Pakistan's nuclear threshold by taking the war to more than 15 days.

So we are good against Indian aggression ( a thing they won't even dare to do in the first place). The only most-important thing we need is long range effective radar and SAM network....so we can monitor and aim at Indian Air Force well within Indian border. In this way , their "Cold-Start" and "Surgical Strike" initiative will be effectively taken out by Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Army!

Chill ....

when you will be firing missile do you really think we will just sleep and wait u to come? do you ppl not learn anything from history? fogot what happen in 1971 in westren side??

 

[MiG-21]

Just a little update for you, ROSE updates on Mirages enabled BVR induction. We did not purchase 500 AMRAAM BVR + 1k SD-10C BVR missiles for display.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ity-over-indian-air-force-13.html#post2995015

 

[ziaulislam]

when you will be firing missile do you really think we will just sleep and wait u to come? do you ppl not learn anything from history? fogot what happen in 1971 in westren side??

well if you are relying on odds of 1971(when you outnumbered us by 1:10 and had full public support of bengalis) then i may say GOD help you!!!

 

[ziaulislam]

self delete...

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

well if you are relying on odds of 1971(when you outnumbered us by 1:10 and had full public support of bengalis) then i may say GOD help you!!!

Mate, its the job of the leadership to make a fight as one sided as possible in their favor.. And thats the area Pakistan fails miserably in every single conflict its had in last 65 years..

 

[Mav3rick]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ity-over-indian-air-force-13.html#post2995015

? Is the link supposed to mean something?

 

[sancho]

Okay Since this is a kind of general thread too so I have some questions about 4th generation and 4.5 generation fighters and where could one put JF-17. Before I ask my question I want to humbly declare that I don't have science or engineering back ground like most of participants of PDF. I never took physics or math as my subjects either in Pakistan or in US while I was attending the schools. Now I remember that I did try once and failed miserably. Though I do have a craze about model trains and RC model planes and do fly (model Planes) over here in Houston. Therefore when I started reading JF-17 information pool most rather all the material bounced right over my head. Having said that I hope most of you would not mind me asking basic questions.

Anyway as per my limited reading and knowledge the US govt recognize the 4th generation fighters the one with having "fly by wire" system and places the fighters equipped with both "fly by wire" system and "AESA" radars as 4.5 generation fighters. I remember reading about JF-17 is equipped with "fly by wire" system but only in the pitch axis (have no idea what it means but was happy to read that it has FBW system).

Now my first question is it a complete FBW system?

My second question is I also read that JF-17 block II will be equipped with AESA radar. Is it correct? It means JF-17 block II with both systems FBW and AESA will correctly be called a 4.5 generation aircraft. Please tell me that I am right. I would appreciate an un-biased answer. If JF-17 Block II will indeed be a 4.5 generation fighter air craft then surely we have made a great progress and it would take care of some of the potential weaknesses of PAF.

The classification into generations is not that clear, because you have new fighters with certain capabilities on the one side, but also older upgraded fighters with similar capabilities too. Fly by wire, glass cockpit, BVR capability, multi mode radars, certain sensors counts for 4th generation fighters. 4.5 gen fighters often has PESA or AESA radars, IRST, increased sensor capabilities or even TVC / SC features.
In case of JF 17 you can say, Block 1 is propper 4th generation, Block 2 depending on what upgrades really comes will be higher 4th or 4.5 gen, Block 3 will have AESA and increased capabilities for sure and will be propper 4.5 gen. However, imo not the generation is the important change, but the multi role capability!
With F16 MLU/ B52 and JF 17 PAF will have more capable fighters in good numbers and in all roles. JF 17 as explained in my earlier post will clearly push PAFs capability and that at the base, eventhough if it is not the most capable fighter of it's class. With later upgrades the fighter and PAFs base will be even better, while it can add some more advanced fighters on the higher level.

 

[Farooqi1]

I hope my this post will help answer your questions.

Its too early to say anything about AESA in Block-II, most probably it will be the same KLJ-7 with some upgrade. Block-III will be the real "state-of-the-art" machine with goodies like IRST, AESA, powerful engine etc.

Thanks Appreciate it. Yarr Najam sahib I have one concern. Aren't we are disclosing too much information about our baby?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

the minimum deterrence doctrine is and will be the main limiting factor

 

[Farooqi1]

the minimum deterrence doctrine is and will be the main limiting factor

See the problem is our economy and hold of PA on major part of the defense budget. Economy can't get better unless until we get educated and we can't get educated unless until we get rid of the corrupts, feudal and insincere political leadership. And I mean "get rid of' in an historical and radical way. Also I just can't believe that how our leadership and powers to be have neglected PAF.

 

[AUz]

when you will be firing missile do you really think we will just sleep and wait u to come? do you ppl not learn anything from history? fogot what happen in 1971 in westren side??

You are a new member here and hence need alot of education. Indians on this forum come and get educated about history because back in India , you kids are brainwashed into believing that Indian "won" all wars and that India is this and that--Where as the world laugh at you guys. We have our share of such people. So no worries.

By the way , India (even with its 3 times larger military , 8 times larger land area , 9 times larger population base) couldn't pull-out a single decisive victory, in any war , against 10x smaller Pakistan (Western front). East Pakistan wasn't even an Indian victory. It was a Pakistani political defeat in East Pakistan. Civil war broke out and Army didn't even have any supply lines. Anyways , all these things have been discussed in this forum again and again. There is a reason a clear "balance of power" exists in the region.

India can't do jack against Pakistan and Pakistan can't do anything against India = stalemate !

Chances of an all-out war are very low. In 2002 , Pakistan was at its weakest against India but even then , Indians didn't dare to step into Pakistani territory. Today , Pakistan is fully entrenched and ready to face any Indian aggression. What makes you think that you'll dare to invade Pakistan now? Unlike in 2002 , today Pakistan has ballistic missiles that can strike anywhere in India , cruise missiles , Nasr , Ra'ad , thousands of tanks , hundreds of fighters loaded with BVRs , naval ships and submarines etc etc. So stop being naive.

Welcome to the forum though ...