Police join Indians in Persecuting Christians

[Srinivas]

agree on bold part. as far as your other comments, if india can afford then why it isnt doing so ? why to ban Christian missionaries ? ( am talking about general demand by your members)

There are laws in Indian constitution, which prohibit religious conversions in certain contexts and are related to religious freedom, Those who cross those laws should be banned.

 

[zaxcolix]

Interesting you should bring that up ,even if i am not at the moment; able to verify the claim. So what are you implying ? I am thoroughly interested....although quite limited in free time.

..that some folks will never get it. Incidents like the ones mentioned are not isolated. It happens everywhere, all over the world.

 

[jbond197]

Since this is a South Asian discussion on treatment of Christianity. Let me add a new dimension with reports emanating from Pakistan.

A dark Christmas for Pakistani Christians | Asia | DW.DE | 25.12.2012

Christians celebrate Christmas amid growing fear of persecution and rampant economic and social discrimination in Muslim-majority Pakistan. The year 2012 was one of the worst years for them in the country.

Pakistan's non-government human rights commission, HRCP (Human Rights Commission of Pakistan), reported that the year 2012 was one of the worst years for Pakistani Christians; a number of them were charged with blasphemy, their churches were burnt and houses looted in many parts of the country.

Before the rise of Islamic extremism and religious intolerance in Pakistan, Christians celebrated Christmas with much enthusiasm. They would put stars on their houses and decorate their towns with lights and flags. But many now worry about the risk of being conspicuous.
"We are scared. We are frightened. We cannot sit together, we cannot speak loudly, we cannot celebrate openly. We receive threats," Ashraf Masih, a street sweeper, told AFP. "If we sit together and talk, all of a sudden the Muslim owner of the house will come and ask 'Why are you here, what are you talking about?'"

Well that was not a surprise at all as that is the case of all the minorities in Pakistan.

and more here

Christians, Hindus Persecuted By Islamic Extremists In Pakistan

Any attack on follower of any religion any where in world is highly deplorable. There can be no justification for such rowdy extremist behavior.

 

[Mech]

.....The same thing against "oppressors" will not work in Saudia Arabia or Pakistan

It works in India because the law permits it. Hindu societies awareness of this will eventually bring about a law that prevents missionary conversion.

US has already tried to stop 'Modi' for the said reasons ....but Hindus still vote for him and leaders like him are the end result of what you have mentioned.

Says who ? I do not know about pakistan; but as for saudi--bibles get smuggled across in parts or by some other means. Christians hold gatherings and prayers in closed apartments with lookouts and informers. Conversions, counselling....the works.

Christians are pretty active in Pakistan as well. Although much more organized and "out there" than in Saudi.

Its like i said, Christianity is not about the retaliation game. Its just sheer persistence.

..that some folks will never get it. Incidents like the ones mentioned are not isolated. It happens everywhere, all over the world.

whatever you just told me is quite "isolated". A rape/kidnap victim showing physical affection to their oppressor is indicative of "Stockholm syndrome" and certainly...very isolated.

 

[Sashan]

No. It does not exist because even the concept of it is un-acceptable in my faith.

As for the separate churches. It is obvious that they are independent churches opting to operate in particular areas. For example, the salvation army churches are more focused on the dalit communities and operate in those areas where their population density is higher.

But universally, no church can deny an individual membership based on caste, color or creed. When it comes to individual preferences, its really just the recently cut off vestiges coming into play. It will heal over time.

Without doubt.

Now dude you are insulting everyone's commonsense here denying that casteism does not exist within Indian Christians. Either you are in denial or you do not want to accept the truth. Check this matrimonial site - Wanted Christian nadar groom


Nadar Brides - Grooms Christian Matrimony - Christian Matrimonials

And check this news about Christian dalits mistreated by fellow Christians


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits

 

[zaxcolix]

What man does in the name of religion is hardly worth justifying if it cannot be legitimized by the religion he claims to follow. Unlike Islam or Hinduism, our religion explicitly forbids violence even in the name of self preservation. It was Christ who said "those who live by the sword, die by the sword"....among other things.

The thing is, Christ reformed what used to be Judaism. Every act of violence that were once permissible became prohibited. During the dark ages and medieval periods, the church attempted to circumvent those directives but eventually found themselves distancing from the original gospel and the texts compiled in nicene. Which obviously, brought about its inevitable reformation.

In addition, Roman catholicism or Vatican is the last thing you should be latching on to.

You are not knowledgeable enough in Hinduism to state if it allows for violence.

The reality is Christianity as an extension of Roman empire is the largest killer religion in the WORLD. ....the amount of physical violence done in its name is called 'History of the World'. You can distance yourself from it ....but like Narendra Modi's past ...it will always come back to haunt you.

Current missionary has now replace that physical violence with violence of a different kind with equally devastating effect.

Rape of choir boys by the 'upper caste' priests are often tried pushed under the carpet. Its only after internet and media became invasive, these realities are exposed and there is some correction being made.

I have no problem with christ preaching non violence or Buddha preaching non violence 300 years before him. I have a problem with present day christians missionary soldiers who are spreading intolerance and violence in his name with the active support of christian Indians.

 

[Mech]

Now dude you are insulting everyone's commonsense here denying that casteism does not exist within Indian Christians. Either you are in denial or you do not want to accept the truth. Check this matrimonial site - Wanted Christian nadar groom


Nadar Brides - Grooms Christian Matrimony - Christian Matrimonials

And check this news about Christian dalits mistreated by fellow Christians


BBC NEWS | South Asia | Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits

Did you read my entire post ? Glossing over and being reactionary is such a cliche. Quite frankly, its not a very novel approach especially in this forum.

 

[zaxcolix]

....actually Mech's preaching is something similar to Muslims preaching that Islam is religion of peace.

 

[Sashan]

Did you read my entire post ? Glossing over and being reactionary is such a cliche. Quite frankly, its not a very novel approach especially in this forum.

I am not contradicting all your arguments. I picked up one of your flawed arguments and highlighting it for you. So you see I am not glossing over.

 

[Mech]

You are not knowledgeable enough in Hinduism to state if it allows for violence.

The reality is Christianity as an extension of Roman empire is the largest killer religion in the WORLD. ....the amount of physical violence done in its name is called 'History of the World'. You can distance yourself from it ....but like Narendra Modi's past ...it will always come back to haunt you.

Unlike modi, the churches accept their mistakes and apologize for it on almost every tract they issue. There is a huge difference. You cannot erase the past, what you can do, is to make amends which is exactly what's happening.

Current missionary has now replace that physical violence with violence of a different kind with equally devastating effect.

Rape of choir boys by the 'upper caste' priests are often tried pushed under the carpet. Its only after internet and media became invasive, these realities are exposed and there is some correction being made.

Again, actions of individuals with no support by the scriptures or any associated texts. If you expect me to list out every instance of slavery, child labour, rape, incest and murder by individuals across the years, then I will have to decline. From what i know, any priest/preacher guilty of misconduct as usually immediately expelled and put under trail by the administration.

I have no problem with christ preaching non violence or Buddha preaching non violence 300 years before him. I have a problem with present day christians missionary soldiers who are spreading intolerance and violence in his name with the active support of christian Indians.

They cannot support violence because its explicitly condemned in the scriptures. If they do, there are not even any off verses to legitimize their actions and must be treated as something independent from Christianity......as is usually the case.

 

[KRAIT]

@Sashan You know the greatest problem India right now facing is that we are not actually looking at our problems created by failure of our society and government. We are on wrong way of learning that our major problems are created by some external factor.

Thing is that they are using our own indifference towards the desperate and oppressed people as a weapon to make them against our own people. Any enemy of our country has an added advantage as for them problems are already there all they have to do is utilize for their own purpose to weaken our country.

 

[zaxcolix]

....
Its like i said, Christianity is not about the retaliation game. Its just sheer persistence.

I have already acknowledged the persistence of the new Roman empire over the last 2000 years. That you an Indian practice that religion is direct evidence of its persistance. Is that the news you are trying to spread? I think you are a couple of centuries late

whatever you just told me is quite "isolated". A rape/kidnap victim showing physical affection to their oppressor is indicative of "Stockholm syndrome" and certainly...very isolated.

You mean 'Killing' is more common than 'Rape' ? if you say so.

 

[Mech]

....actually Mech's preaching is something similar to Muslims preaching that Islam is religion of peace.

Im not preaching at all. All im doing here is presenting my side of the issue.

There really is no need to publish "off" comments when you lose your grip on the plot. Its quite fine and understandable to collect your thoughts and confront me later as you please.

And just so its out there, it is "peace". As for your assertions on my experience with Hinduism, i grew up reading exclusively Hindu material for entertaining stories and epics.

From Ramayana to mahabharat...all the way over to the entire bhagavad gita (all translations ofcourse).

I can even quote from certain vedas like the adharva Veda.

 

[Mech]

I have already acknowledged the persistence of the new Roman empire over the last 2000 years. That you an Indian practice that religion is direct evidence of its persistance. Is that the news you are trying to spread? I think you are a couple of centuries late



You mean 'Killing' is more common than 'Rape' ? if you say so.

Alright sir, please take some time off to collect your thoughts just so you dont slip into an infinite loop. Its quite boring and already addressed.

PS: Last line makes no sense.

 

[Sashan]

@Mech - it is as simple as this - It is Christian preachers' persistence vs Hindu religious tolerance. Let me explain this.

My mom is a conservative Hindu lady - She would visit Astha Lakshmi temple in Besant Nagar, Chennai every other week and would take me with her. On the way to the temple which is right on the beach there is a Church called Velankanni Church(different from what is there in South Tamilnadu) - She would buy two garlands and would pray at the church and at the temple and make me do so.

For certain sicknesses, she would take me to the local masjid as there is a belief that Muslims who go for early morning prayers can heal the sick people.


So you see I was brought up to respect and tolerate other religions - If you watch Life of Pi the first 15 minutes will showcase how the tolerance is there in a hindu family for other religions.


So when you preach that "Your Way" is the only way and rest like idol worshipping is evil - maybe gullible people who have their needs will fall for it(that is the reason 70% Christians are dalits) - But for the rest of the Hindus, you will find it difficult to convince them. Else India would have been entirely Christian country for the work done by preachers over centuries.


Beyond that I am done with these discussions for today.