Police join Indians in Persecuting Christians

[Spring Onion]

Thats not the difference I was talking about.

One trump card the church used in TN was the Dravidian thingy, that they were different from the Aryan North Indians...but the same cant be used against the North Indians themselves..as I said they are almost completely sanskritized and the Ayodhya issue also brought in a good deal of religious fervour to them. So the situations in North and south are different..

What the difference between social status in South and North? What is ratio of conversion from Hinduism to Christianity in North?

Tell me is it a free will or last resort to change the religion to feed your family ?
Opportunity ? A Hindu has supposedly, according to you guys, more chances of succeeding than any other minority. Still, its a selfish decision. It was not because of enlightenment but sheer personal benefit.

Caste harassment, there is already caste system in Christians too. So again, nothing better they got.

Indeed its a free will. What is wrong in choosing food and personal benefits over religion here?

those who convert dont see it as forced one or fraud. they find food cloths which is biggest worry for them

 

[Sedqal]

Tell me is it a free will or last resort to change the religion to feed your family ?

Opportunity ? A Hindu has supposedly, according to you guys, more chances of succeeding than any other minority. Still, its a selfish decision. It was not because of enlightenment but sheer personal benefit.

Caste harassment, there is already caste system in Christians too. So again, nothing better they got.

Then blame GOI not Christians. But the point is that many Indians criticize Islam for denying conversion rights to its believers, while supporting India in doing exactly the same.

 

[KS]

No need to get defensive. You didn't get my point at all. The "survival mechanism" is exactly what serves as a catapult for Christianity (demonstrated in China and Russia ). You see, Christians do counter retaliate. But its not in the way you expect.

I was listening to a particular missionary about his experience in the north. Every time they attempted to gather and pray Hindu mobs would come down hard on them. Now you would expect this would deter them...but this is not how Christian groups operate at all. Eventually, they managed to "bring their oppressors into the light" as well...with sheer persistence. Interestingly, it is now a well rooted Christian community area now with their "oppressors" acting as their major benefactors.

Lol I'm not getting defensive...I have been in North, I have got along with the people and I know first hand the attitudes of people there. That is why I'm saying North is a very tough nut to crack for the missionaries. Rest let time tell the answer as there are some things that I cant say here .

And then there always needs to be an "another" for a group to mobilize. If you know what I mean. As I said, lets just hope things dont cross a threshold as it would not be good for eitehr parties and more importantly for the country.

 

[Azazel]

What the difference between social status in South and North? What is ratio of conversion from Hinduism to Christianity in North?

No idea.But I think North has a more patriarchal and conservative society.In such a society conversions are difficult.That's why they target tribals.

 

[KRAIT]

Indeed its a free will. What is wrong in choosing food and personal benefits over religion here?
those who convert dont see it as forced one or fraud. they find food cloths which is biggest worry for them

I already said this. What's the difference for a hungry person, conversion on Gun point or conversion for food. In both case, the survival is the issue for him.

Its about choosing life over death. Survival madam. Come on, you are such an old member, can't you see, hunger is used as a weapon ?

How this is free will ? Free will happens when a person have a good alternate. Where there are choices. A hungry person don't have any alternate but to convert and take the food. Only choice he has is either life or death. And we all know what he will pick.

If you can't understand after so much detailed explanation, I don't know what will.

 

[Azazel]

Then blame GOI not Christians. But the point is that many Indians criticize Islam for denying conversion rights to its believers, while supporting India in doing exactly the same.

Who will be responsible for the social problems created by such mass conversions.Not the missionaries they will go back to US and start to sabre-rattling on religion and human rights.No one denies the right to choose their own religions.The problem is the mass conversions and the mess it leaves behind.

 

[Nair saab]

The fact remains the Same... Evangelist movement who has found political support from Pope Sonia are the biggest Threat to India as a Nation ... & should be Crushed where ever seen ...

Happy to see that the Main people beating &hit out of these Missionaries are Dalit people of North India...

 

[KRAIT]

Then blame GOI not Christians. But the point is that many Indians criticize Islam for denying conversion rights to its believers, while supporting India in doing exactly the same.

I already said GOI is at fault. But using hunger as a weapon is not any religion uses. So GOI, our society, Christian missionaries, Hindu organizations all are at fault because they want a person to choose a religion for food.

I don't mind if a person which has no compulsion, makes a rational decision to convert. Its all about what a person finds more enlightening. Not on basis of fear, pain, misery, threat etc.

Dude, even I joined a certain sect in my life, which is a bit different from traditional Hindu religion, my parents didn't have any problem with that.

 

[Sedqal]

Who will be responsible for the social problems created by such mass conversions.Not the missionaries they will go back to US and start to sabre-rattling on religion and human rights.No one denies the right to choose their own religions.The problem is the mass conversions and the mess it leaves behind.

If conversion is a right then situation on ground does not change it. Hindus can counter the Missionaries on their own game by attracting the converts back or force GOI to do more so Indians don't have to convert for meeting basic needs. Unless Christians use force to convert I don't see how you can blame them.

 

[Infinity]

No No KS. What you said is wiki knowledge. Missionary movement is significantly stronger among the middle class and the upper rungs. Thousands of independent and centralized/decentralized movements exist all over the country. From major universities to IT parks. There, it is more about getting "converts" as opposed to "spreading the good news".

Christian organisations operate a HUGE number of de-addiction centres, counselling centres , suicide helplines , etc (just too many to list) all over the nation. Especially in the metros.

And Mission Hospitals were they treat poor for free...................Here in Jammu the place near i work have one...................

 

[ALOK31]

in my state mostly converts are very poor dalits and tribals.

 

[Infinity]

You Kill Christians ......................attack their Churches they get more motivated..............Did killing of Dr Graham Stanes stop them from working in Orrisa................

in my state mostly converts are very poor dalits .

They are Humans too.......................

 

[Mech]

Please please please dont say caste system does not exist in christianity..Its an insult to my common sense. You are in kerala..hop a bus to Tamil Nadu and see for yourself the casteism among the converts..in most places they even have separate churches, separate graves, separate routes for festival cars etc.

No. It does not exist because even the concept of it is un-acceptable in my faith.

As for the separate churches. It is obvious that they are independent churches opting to operate in particular areas. For example, the salvation army churches are more focused on the dalit communities and operate in those areas where their population density is higher.

But universally, no church can deny an individual membership based on caste, color or creed. When it comes to individual preferences, its really just the recently cut off vestiges coming into play. It will heal over time.

Without doubt.

 

[zaxcolix]

Being a Christian (Not a Pentecostal) , i can tell you what's fundamentally wrong with this approach. Christianity thrives under persecution. "Suffering for the sake of faith and Christ", "Forgiving thy enemy" etc are the central themes of our faith. Whatever the motives of individual organisations may be, persecution will only strengthen their resolve and moreover, it will attract disinterested parties.

At last someone who is bold enough to speak the truth.....present day christianity is a legacy of the Roman Empire. After the empire became christian it mission continued to be conquer new lands and subjugate its people to server Rome. Even today Rome remains central to the narrative and Rome/Vatican remains capital of this empire. Only that in today's modern nation states its conquer 'souls' through religion and subjugate people to serve Rome through religion. The Reach, man power and money power of this empire is Huge and its mission to conquer is relentless. ......There is a reason its called 'Roman Catholics'. Rest of the christians are like the fringe kingdoms are the border of the empire..with variations of the central theme, but designed to serve their respective Holy sees etc.

Though not much evidence of 'forgive thy enemy' is seen P muslims may testify to this), suffering is a central theme to motivate the foot soldiers of this empire along with huge funding. This effort is directly or indirectly backed by all the western nation so its immaterial to worry about attracting 'disinterested parties'. Their resolve is set for the last 2000 years and no action of Hindus is going to make any difference except provide slightly more material for propaganda.

The greatest testament to this resolve is aptly demonstrated in Russia and China....where underground churches and communities held their ground, not with violence but with faith, love and most importantly, hope. Its greatest strength, perhaps is the fact that violence is explicitly prohibited by the faith. Those who do, eventually find themselves losing foothold as they distance themselves from the central theme of Christianity.

India is unique and comparison to Russia and China is irrelevant. Violence by neo converts against Hindus and Tribals in Orissa and North East is on public record.

With caste segregation, child labour and associated violence/suppression being enforced by hardline upper crest Hindus, there shouldn't be any surprise why Pentecostals and now traditional Indian churches now grow from strength to strength.

Reality is in a shrinking world and in a Global context the Christians are the new upper cast (due to ability to win war & Money power & control of global media) followed by Muslims (petro money) and Hindus / Buddhists becomes the Dalit. Hope comes from a resurgent China which recognizes this threat and world order and will certainly fight it.

Caste segregation codified by the Indian constitution, poverty imposed by congress misrule feeds christians missionaries and they are actively supported by majority of christian Indians. Add unlimited funding to this mixture and its clear the Christian Missionary will continue to gain strength in India unless its controlled by the Govt of India. Thankfully, even the lousiest of congressman who's of any Dharmic religion will eventually recognise this reality and will either change party or will join in to bring in legislature to control this foreign flow of fund.

 

[Mech]

You Kill Christians ......................attack their Churches they get more motivated..............Did killing of Dr Graham Stanes stop them from working in Orrisa................

They burned Graham and his little children alive. But instead of calling for just punishment, his wife chose to forgive them all and now even more actively engaged in missionary work.

This is exactly the point i was trying to drive home. Thank you.