Poland bringing Wolverine APC (Patria AMV) at defexpo 2012

[Capt.Popeye]

Hey guys during last Defexpo BDL or OFB tied up with a Polish company. What happened to that JV ????

That was BEML.

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
Yeah that one, but what happened to it ???

 

[sancho]

300 Light tanks are also required and i think for that Anders i good.

Yes that's another requirement for tracked IFV and „light tanks“ as well and Jha is a big fan of the Anders, but it depends on it's weight imo. Some sources puts it around 40ts with some add on armor, but that's equal to our T72 MBTs, while they have way better protection. So the Anders might not really be light, nor fully a tank.
For commonality reasons I prefer the Swedish CV90-120T, which can use the same mortar turrets that the Patria AMV uses too:

CV90120-T Light Tank | Military-Today.com

Especially when we could get a hand on this version:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg68...lename=cv90120adaptivearmour02.jpg&res=medium

i dont see anything special in this stupid machine that cant be made in india. all i am waiting at this defence expo is the final design of amca . phuck everything else

Really? Please google for DRDO Abhay IFV or the light tank prototypes they offered and compare it to these, to see what's reality and what's wishful thinking about indigenous developments.
Btw, there is no final design for AMCA, since it's development is only about to start and not to finish. Not to mention that it would be strange that HAL can't show an FGFA design, which should be ready by 2017, but an AMCA that might be ready in beyond 2020.

more private less DRDO.

I am often critical when it comes to DRDO, but Germany is actually a good example that privatisation and the requirements of the forces could be 2 different things! The German part of EADS mainly looked for exporting products and making business, while the French side with influence of their government has a higher focus on the requirements of it's forces too. Best example are the UAV field, where German EADS wanted the Talarion surveillance UAV with 2 jet engines, while Spanish and French EADS parts joint the nEUROn Stealth UCAV development. And now that French government opened the way for Dassault and BAE rto compete the Talarion with their Telemos (armed twin prop drone), the chances for Talarion are close to Zero. Privat companies wants to develop high end stuff to impress export customers, while forces often have different unique requirements. If Dhruv would have been developed with exports in mind from the start, they wouldn't have focused to operate it at such high altitudes for example.
We need privat companies to take parts of the developments, or to compete with goverment companies, but at the end a higher control of the government is better for the forces.
A different example, India was often critizised for too much government control in the financial and bank sectors, but when the banks all over the world got bankrupt, because there wasn't any control at all, it was this government control that prevented us from similar trouble!

 

[karan21]

CV90120-T Light Tank | Military-Today.com

Especially when we could get a hand on this version:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg68...lename=cv90120adaptivearmour02.jpg&res=medium




Really? Please google for DRDO Abhay IFV or the light tank prototypes they offered and compare it to these, to see what's reality and what's wishful thinking about indigenous developments.
Btw, there is no final design for AMCA, since it's development is only about to start and not to finish. Not to mention that it would be strange that HAL can't show an FGFA design, which should be ready by 2017, but an AMCA that might be ready in beyond 2020.

the abhay is underdevelopment and when the final version is out i am sure it will be no less than this. the prototype ur talking abt is not the final design.

about amca ur wrong the work on amca has been going on since 2003. but at that time plane was not a stealthy and called mca. but after 2008 plans changed and plane was converted to stealthy design and renamed amca by request of iaf. i assure u the design of the plane is ready and i can say that bcoz some cad designs are already out and first plane will be flown by using all proven tejas avionics as said by project director. tejas was kept grounded for 7 yrs(1995-2001) after roll out dude to bad avionics. wont happen for amca. the project is secret only 15 scientists are working on it currently.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Some sources puts it around 40ts with some add on armor, but that's equal to our T72 MBTs

No i think you must be mistaken, i think it will be will be a little bit more than IFVs. CV120 and Anders are what suitable for that.

Also anybody knows about t72 modernization ? Defence Minister said 70-90 % have night vision but i doubt because it looked more like when someone would say something to calm things down knowing that the topic won't be raised in the near future.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No i think you must be mistaken, i think it will be will be a little bit more than IFVs. CV120 and Anders are what suitable for that.

Also anybody knows about t72 modernization ? Defence Minister said 70-90 % have night vision but i doubt because it looked more like when someone would say something to calm things down knowing that the topic won't be raised in the near future.

No I think this was pretty accurate as the IA some time back begun the T-72 UPG which included updating the engine, new ERA tiles, panoramic commanders sight, night/thermal vision for driver and gunner, APS and other such goodies. T-90s will be similar but quite a bit more advanced.

 

[sancho]

No i think you must be mistaken, i think it will be will be a little bit more than IFVs.

With a combat weight of 26 tonnes this gives the CV90120-T a high power-to-weight ratio

BAE Systems Hagglunds CV90120-T Tank (Sweden) - Jane's Armour and Artillery

Anders light tank

Weight 33 t
Weight (with add-on armor) ~ 45 t
Main gun 22 rounds


CV90120-T

Weight 26 - 35 t
Main gun 45 rounds


T72

Weight 41 t
Main gun 39 rounds

Anders Prototype Light Tank | Military-Today.com

CV90120-T Light Tank | Military-Today.com

T-72 Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

Anders IFV

25 ~ 30 t


CV90 IFV

Weight 22.4 t

Anders Prototype Infantry Fighting Vehicle | Military-Today.com

CV 90 Infantry Fighting Vehicle | Military-Today


Polish forces evaluated the CV 90 - 120T and then the Anders was developed most likely based on the swedish version. But although the Anders might be more cost-effective, it is also less capable than the swedish tank. Coupled with the Patria AMV, the CV 90-120 would offer IA a formidable light strike corp, with a lot of fire power, but fast and easy to be transported (2 x CV90-120T fit in a C17, instead of only 1 x Anders).

 

[angeldemon_007]

No I think this was pretty accurate as the IA some time back begun the T-72 UPG which included updating the engine, new ERA tiles, panoramic commanders sight, night/thermal vision for driver and gunner, APS and other such goodies. T-90s will be similar but quite a bit more advanced.

Anders light tank

Weight 33 t
Weight (with add-on armor) ~ 45 t
Main gun 22 rounds


CV90120-T

Weight 26 - 35 t
Main gun 45 rounds


T72

Weight 41 t
Main gun 39 rounds

No thing is guys we need tanks only for weight upto 30t for the new armored division that is being raised in the NE. Why so light because they could be easily transported, may be even flown to remote areas. The M777 is also likely to be part of this division.(I could be wrong but this is what i have heard. T72 and T90 are not going in the NE for that we are purchasing light tanks and tank destroyers). T72 and T90 as we can say comes under the category of medium tanks and thats why some they can be considered as a main battle tank.

As far as t72 modernization is concerned, dude most of them have even crossed their maximum life and they are getting unsafe for the operators and so they are required to be upgraded because in some twisted mindset upgraded t72 will be better than tank- ex and arjun mk1. I really don't get why IA cancelled tank-ex. It was the perfect modernization of t72. IA could have added NV, new sight and APS on tank-ex and its ready to go.

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Does anybody knows its Wolverine APC thats on offer not Patria. Patria is actually Finnish while Wolverine is the Polish version of Patria AMV.

 

[sancho]

No thing is guys we need tanks only for weight upto 30t for the new armored division that is being raised in the NE. Why so light because they could be easily transported, may be even flown to remote areas.

I saw that report too, but not sure how reliable it is, because that would mean only wheeled tank destroyers and light tanks like BMP with 105mm guns would fit the bill. And since even these vehicles are too big and heavy for Mi 26 or C130, the IL 76 and C17 will be the only aircrafts to transport them, but the same could carry CV90 or Anders as well, so there would be no advantage in taking less heavy vehicles.

T72 and T90 as we can say comes under the category of medium tanks and thats why some they can be considered as a main battle tank.

I don't want to replace the T72s with CV90 or Anders, just wanted to point out, that an upgraded T72 would be as heavy but more capable than the Anders, while the CV90-120 would fit the bill as a light tank below the T72.

 

[C130]

Patria/KTO Rosomak got to be my favorite APC/IFV.

the Patria platform is very versatile just like Stryker.