Point 5353 in Pakistan's control Drass sector

[SQ8]

I can agree with most of your most and this is the kind of reply that I am looking for, sensible and dignified.

Now down to business yes even i can say that the Indian army was caught of guard and you did have us in shock for sometime until more troops were rushed into the area. The tide turned once the Air Force got involved, something that the Pakistani planners did not think would happen. In the frogginging you had the upper hand but by the end it was us who were calling the shots.

The LOC is not the international border but cannot be crossed by either nation as it still signifies the boundaries between India and Pakistan. I have many friends in the Indian Army and as per them the LOC changes almost every year according to glacier patterns. Pakistan did manage to hold onto some peaks near the LOC but those were never among the most crucial and the Indian army never made a serious thrust for them. Crucial points like 4590 or the tiger hill were under Indian control by the end of the war. Those who know point 5353 would also know that there is no real point 5353. Its split by a fork down the middle and as per the last report i heard, these individual peaks are to steep to be controlled by either force. Point 5353 is often mixed up with point 5356 which is on the Pakistani side of the border and is under Pakistan control and yes from here the Pakistan do have a good view of the highway. All in all Kargil is a closed story and bringing it up again is useless.

In regards to another Kargil, hope it never happens and the results will be very damaging to both of us. We rather invest our resources into something more constructive.

Exactly, The LOC isnt a border at all.. And as for the Kargil and 65 for the that matter.. all were wonderful tactical plans.. but massive strategic blunders.
However, the crucial peaks you refer to are those that can be inhabited all year round.. if in severe hardships, there are other points which offer a better position than tiger hill and 4590.. but the main problem was their inaccessibility.. this was overcome by some death-defying drops made by Army Aviation during the conflict.. how they maintained observation posts on those places is beyond me and most likely they were abandoned as things cooled down.
Eventually though, Both of our countries MUST back down from these wonders.. stop trashing them with bullets and shell casings.. and let people enjoy the rooftop of the world.

Funny thing.. in the thick of the war my family took a sightseeing vacation a mere 12km from the LOC.. in a nice hut owned by the army.
Watched DDLJ and then slept with artillery firing away all night...

And toxic_pus.. that is exactly what nukes come in handy for.. making the world nervous... A "keep off" sign if you will.

 

[Awesome]

sorry that day is never coming Asim and im sure even you know that. This same attitude is what still remains prevalent in Pakistan. And they say that Indians dont want peace lol

Ohh India will do everything to stop any misguided trials from Pakistan. What we say we do, im sure our previous wars are a testament to that. Its best we stop this d1ck waving and indulging in some talks, peace is what will benefit us both. India can afford many wars, but I cant say the same about Pakistan.

So who said India will not try to stop us... Look you're getting emotional over nothing - we're enemy nations. We won't be enemies if we didn't have a dispute. You're so concerned about peace, remove the dispute. You're continuing on with the dispute and then complaining about actions we take.

It's like you go ahead and try to strangle somebody and then complain "Why did you say Ow?" Nothing is going to happen to India that it doesn't deserve.

 

[QADRI]

bhaijan we will come to the table when half of you guys stop uttering this rhetoric again and again. Accept what happened in Kargil and stop coming up with dream scenarios. We have nothing against peace in this region but that is only possible when people stop talking about doing another Kargil etc etc.

han yar so why are you telling us these things you must go and tell your Gen Pal, the commander of injun troops during the Kargil war. It would be more nice.

 

[desiman]

Exactly, The LOC isnt a border at all.. And as for the Kargil and 65 for the that matter.. all were wonderful tactical plans.. but massive strategic blunders.
However, the crucial peaks you refer to are those that can be inhabited all year round.. if in severe hardships, there are other points which offer a better position than tiger hill and 4590.. but the main problem was their inaccessibility.. this was overcome by some death-defying drops made by Army Aviation during the conflict.. how they maintained observation posts on those places is beyond me and most likely they were abandoned as things cooled down.
Eventually though, Both of our countries MUST back down from these wonders.. stop trashing them with bullets and shell casings.. and let people enjoy the rooftop of the world.

Funny thing.. in the thick of the war my family took a sightseeing vacation a mere 12km from the LOC.. in a nice hut owned by the army.
Watched DDLJ and then slept with artillery firing away all night...

And toxic_pus.. that is exactly what nukes come in handy for.. making the world nervous... A "keep off" sign if you will.

exactly arguing over this will lead to no where, i can say something and then you will counter it with something else lol its best we forget all this and focus on maintaining peace, both of our armies dont really enjoy war lol

I acutally have a very funny story also, one of the majors from the war was telling me that they used to listen to Junoon's songs in the bunkers sometimes just to get their blood pumper up lol crazy ehh, fight the same country and then listening to their songs, thats how crazy war is lol

 

[karan.1970]

India Lost Kargil War: General Kishen
Submitted by BZ on June 1, 2010 – 7:36 pm85 Comments
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NEW DELHI—Eleven years after having led troops on the ground during the Kargil war, a retired army general has claimed India had actually lost the war in strategic terms as it failed to consolidate tactical gains. Lt Gen (retd) Kishen Pal, who headed the Srinagar-based 15 Corps during the 1999 conflict, told television channel NDTV in an interview broadcast on Sunday that he had never been convinced that India had won.

“We did gain some tactical victories, we regained back the territories we lost, but we lost 587 precious lives,” he said. “I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated, either politically or diplomatically, it has not been consolidated militarily,” he added.

The Armed Forces Tribunal recently indicted Pal for showing bias against his junior Brigadier Devinder Singh and falsifying accounts during the Kargil war.

Asked if the army was under pressure then to give quick results, Pal admitted it was so. “It was a big embarrassment to everybody. The then vice Chief Lt Gen Chandra Shekhar told me that there is lot of pressure we have to clear this very fast,” he said.—Agencies

Did you even read the article or just the headline.. Let me summarize the key points from the article for you

1. We regained back the territories we lost, but we lost 587 precious lives A similar claim from Pakistan puts 5000 lost Pakistani lives

2. I consider this loss of war because whatever we gained from the war has not been consolidated Implies India won the war but did not consolidate the gains post war

 

[desiman]

han yar so why are you telling us these things you must go and tell your Gen Pal, the commander of injun troops during the Kargil war. It would be more nice.

who is injun ? sry dint get that. Who am i telling again ?

 

[gubbi]

So who said India will not try to stop us... Look you're getting emotional over nothing - we're enemy nations. We won't be enemies if we didn't have a dispute. You're so concerned about peace, remove the dispute. You're continuing on with the dispute and then complaining about actions we take.

Having disputes does not make one enemies. US and Canada have some border disputes, and yet they are not enemies.
Its what you want to believe. Pakistan has historically always wanted India to remain its numero uno enemy - for reasons best known to Pakistani leaders. I can point to one thread on this very forum where this is mentioned as one of the talking points.

It's like you go ahead and try to strangle somebody and then complain "Why did you say Ow?" Nothing is going to happen to India that it doesn't deserve.

Wrong again.
Its some elements in Pakistan - either state actors or non state actors, who want bad things to happen in India. Mumbai 2008 - India and many innocent victims didn't deserve that, and yet it was perpetuated by people coming across the border.

How would you like it if I say -"every time you say "ow", its because you deserve it."?

You point is outrageous and a cheapshot to say the least.

 

[Neither Right Nor Wrong]

han yar so why are you telling us these things you must go and tell your Gen Pal, the commander of injun troops during the Kargil war. It would be more nice.

Don't troll ..or you will get fitting response and new names for your country .

 

[Rafi]

General Pal, has said something courageous, for which he has had to suffer repeated attacks by rabid injuns.

Salute to our brave troops

 

[Rafi]

General Pal did not do semantics, and we should not either, It was a strategic defeat for india

 

[Awesome]

Having disputes does not make one enemies. US and Canada have some border disputes, and yet they are not enemies.
Its what you want to believe. Pakistan has historically always wanted India to remain its numero uno enemy - for reasons best known to Pakistani leaders. I can point to one thread on this very forum where this is mentioned as one of the talking points.

Wrong again.
Its some elements in Pakistan - either state actors or non state actors, who want bad things to happen in India. Mumbai 2008 - India and many innocent victims didn't deserve that, and yet it was perpetuated by people coming across the border.

How would you like it if I say -"every time you say "ow", its because you deserve it."?

You point is outrageous and a cheapshot to say the least.

I'm not talking about Mumbai like incidents neither did I advocated for it. I want to attack your illegal forces in Kashmir and kick you out of there and free the Kashmiris.

I don't support Musharraf's Kargil plan, because he hadn't factored in everything and went ahead despite the warnings of many branches of the military. However no one in Pakistan disagrees with the goal. Anything that results in evicting India out, either through the gun or by tickling their soldiers with feathers. They are all means to the same end. Freedom of Kashmiris and its all good work.

India did slip up in Kargil, it may do so again. We can be patient about it.

 

[desiman]

So who said India will not try to stop us... Look you're getting emotional over nothing - we're enemy nations. We won't be enemies if we didn't have a dispute. You're so concerned about peace, remove the dispute. You're continuing on with the dispute and then complaining about actions we take.

It's like you go ahead and try to strangle somebody and then complain "Why did you say Ow?" Nothing is going to happen to India that it doesn't deserve.

when you say resolve the dispute then that basically means give up Kashmir, if we tell you to give up Baluschistan would you do that ? As you said I think India and Pakistan are bound to be enemies forever, maybe its just meant to be that way. As you said nothing is happening to India that it does not deserve then i guess nothing is happening to Pakistan that it also does not deserve.

 

[karan.1970]

Dude, what's the point in trying to convince us? We're going to attack the Indian army and take Kashmir the day we can. Till we can't we won't.

India can't do anything about it just like it's never been able to make good on any of its empty threats so many times.

One heck of an honset post if I ever saw one.. No hiding behind pseudo peacenik BS..

Lets see if Pakistan gets in a postition to attack and take Kashmir first or gets carved up again before that...May we all live in interesting times...

 

[Awesome]

when you say resolve the dispute then that basically means give up Kashmir, if we tell you to give up Baluschistan would you do that ? As you said I think India and Pakistan are bound to be enemies forever, maybe its just meant to be that way. As you said nothing is happening to India that it does not deserve then i guess nothing is happening to Pakistan that it also does not deserve.

Why don't you let it go free? Why don't you let the Kashmiris choose? It's not a selfish demand since I'm not asking for Kashmir for myself, but for Kashmiris.

You see from where I'm looking, you people are horrible. The treatment you're giving to the Kashmiris, the fake encounters, the scores of rapes and mass graves - it makes the Indian army look sub-human. Truly and utterly horrible people that need to be killed so that good people like the Kashmiris can live freely.

I just want bad and horrible people who inflict violence and oppress good people to die. Nothing wrong with it.

So there will be no end to the freedom struggle, peaceful or violent that just depends upon the opportunity and what works. It's a freedom struggle, not a give Kashmir to me struggle. We're right, you're wrong.

 

[gubbi]

I'm not talking about Mumbai like incidents neither did I advocated for it. I want to attack your illegal forces in Kashmir and kick you out of there and free the Kashmiris.

I don't support Musharraf's Kargil plan, because he hadn't factored in everything and went ahead despite the warnings of many branches of the military. However no one in Pakistan disagrees with the goal. Anything that results in evicting India out, either through the gun or by tickling their soldiers with feathers. They are all means to the same end. Freedom of Kashmiris and its all good work.

Havent you read UN resolution no. 47, filed under chapter VI (non-binding and no mandatory enforceability as opposed to Chapter VII - binding resolution)? You chose to ignore the resolution setting a precedent for future dealings with UN resolutions in Kashmir. So stop complaining. Anyway its not mandatory and is non-binding. Its Pakistan's choice.

Stop interfering in Kashmir, withdraw all your illegal intruders from all of Kashmir and then India will decide what to do next. The onus is on you, not India. Is Kashmir the raison d'etre for Pakistan's existence? Nyet! And hope not.

Geez, apna ghar sambhala nahin jata, doosre ke khidki mein jhakne chale!

India did slip up in Kargil, it may do so again. We can be patient about it.

And yet managed to kick the mighty Pakistan Army arse, without letting things go out of control. If only you could appreciate or understand the importance of such a control being exercised.