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Point 5353 in Pakistan's control Drass sector

Pakistani posters who r claiming a false victory..take a look here and understand y he is a TT..:tup:



yes dear....we dont forget u will use the nukes but if given the opportunity to do so.
Now dont start getting to my throats after this.
It is a sad reality of the subcontinent (india to a lesser extent) and (Pak to a greater extent) that wen it comes o nuclear weapons..America hand can be seen.
Even before the finger goes to the button there will be hugely enormous American pressure not to do so and a negotiated settlement will be forced upon us..(US not u alone.)

So It will be a conventional war with a 0.00001% of using nuke weapons.

And then even if u use them not all Indians will be dstroyed cos of our size but Pakistan...::rolleyes::

Karthic.. pakistan may or may not be completely wiped out.. but to assume.. that India will live on is folly too..
I insist that all members.. Pakistani or Indian.. hateful or neutral.. watch this movie

Take the time.. and then think.. even if India did survive.. is this the India you want to live in?
Is this something you are prepared to accept as ok, for your family, for millions of other families in India?
If you are.. then give me :rolleyes:

India is huge.. there is no doubting that.. but like Pakistan, the majority of its populous is moving into urban centers.. 98% of them I assure u are targeted...
anyway.. we are derailing this thread.

The simple conclusion is, whether this peak is in control or not, whether its unimportant or can lead to annexation of Kashmir is irrelevant. The events that preceded it.. the loss of life on both sides of the war was avoidable.. if for the ego of a dictator and his cohorts.
:cheers:
 
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This mine is bigger than yours story line is getting so boring :)
 
Maybe its just a bait..for Pak army to bite on..once it does, Indian army might just want to test their shiny new war doctrine...after all in a war, we would not want to be seen as aggressors..would we!!

boss the bait has been bitten since 1999 but the indian shiny war machines are busy doing Cobra's :rofl: :lol:
 
just try it and believe me thats the last thing you will do. Another Kargil will be the biggest and last mistake that Pakistan makes. The LOC is not a whatever border, its a legitimate line that divides India and Pakistan. You might not recognize it but we do and any stupid tries again from Pakistan or the so called Jihadi's will not go unpunished.

In regards to this peak and point 5353, this is a nice cooked up tale by a couple of misguided Indian media and Pakistani media who still want to prove that Pakistan got something out of the Kargil war except defeat. Let me explain. Point 5353 lies of the north western side of the Kargil valley and is one of the thousands of small peaks that are scattered in this location. Now during the Kargil war, the Indian army identified the major peaks that post a direct threat to the highways and Indian position along the border. Famous ones like Tiger Hill, point 5680 and point 5676 were captured with priority as they gave the Pakistani Army a direct line of sight on the crucial highway that leads to Leh. Now coming back to this point 5353 which has been romanticized by many Pakistani's on this forum, its a minor peak very very close to Pakistani territory and the Indian army did not want to get that close to Pakistan during and after the war. some reasons why -

a) India did not want to cross the International border and give Pakistan a crying point like always

b) This point does not even give the Indian's any significant advantage over this area.

C) The LOC is a very faintly mapped line and there is much confusion still surrounding it. Snow patterns and glacier retreat cycles change the line slightly every year. So what could be in Indian territory could be in Pakistani territory the next season visa versa. Point 5353 is one of those peaks.

d) By the end of the Kargil war India had got back over 95% of the lost territory and had set things back according to the Shimla accord. As I said earlier, this area is subject to constant change and peaks often get interchanged in nationality. Altogether India got back what is lost.

India is very much in control of all major peaks in this region which are higher and better positioned that point 5353 so if we ever have the need to recapture this, it wont take us very long.

Now this info was given to me by a major in the Indian army, who was also part of the Kargil war in his time. So please stop thinking that Kargil was anything else other than a huge defeat for Pakistan, you did not achieve even one strategic goal and only managed to destabilize your own country even further. Sorry I had to write all this but im kinda sick of kids here quoting youtube videos and talking like they know everything.


come on kid :hitwall: :hitwall:

do you have any basic knowledge of this issue??


Commander ordered capture of Point 5353 in Kargil war

By Praveen Swami
NEW DELHI, JUNE 29 . Indian soldiers had attempted to capture Point 5353, a strategically-important peak in the Dras sector, in the first days of the Kargil war. New evidence that such an assault took place blows apart contradictory claims by the former Defence Minister, George Fernandes, and top military officials that the feature does not lie on the Indian side of the Line of Control.

An investigation by The Hindu has gained access to orders issued to Major Navneet Mehra of the 16 Grenadiers Regiment, ordering him to lead an assault on Point 5353, so named for its altitude in metres. It is the highest feature in the Dras sector, and allows the Pakistani troops to observe National Highway 1A, as well as an alternative Dras-Kargil route that is now under construction.

Major Mehra's men were asked to evict the Pakistani intruders on Point 5353 by 6 a.m. on May 18, 1999. The officer's plan was to set up three fire bases along the base of the peak to support the infantry assault by two groups.

Although backed by some artillery, both groups faced a difficult climb, under direct fire from both the Pakistani positions on Point 5353 and Point 5165.

However, Major Mehra's despatches note, his commanding officer, Col. Pushpinder Oberoi, gave specific orders "to go for it at any cost." Col. Oberoi's troops failed to execute his instructions. Ill-equipped for the extreme cold, and not properly acclimatised to the altitude, the troops withdrew after suffering 13 casualties. The attack was finally called off at 3 a.m. on May 19, 1999.


After news broke that the Pakistani troops occupied Point 5353, the Indian Army denied that the peak had ever been held by India, or, indeed, was on its side of the LoC. A press release issued on August 11, 2000, asserted that the "point was never under our control either before or after Operation Vijay in Kargil." Mr. Fernandes seemed to disagree. Asked about the status of Point 5353 at a subsequent press conference, he insisted that "every inch of the land is under our control."

Mr. Fernandes' subsequent statements added to the confusion. Speaking to an audience in Mumbai, he said "Point 5353 is the point over which the LoC goes. Fact is, our troops had never occupied that."

However, on January 1, 2001, the Press Information Bureau issued a photograph of Mr. Fernandes standing on what it claimed was Point 5353. Later, the PIB was forced to sack a junior staffer for "an administrative error."

War-time media reports, based on Army briefings, suggest that further efforts to take the peak were made from July 21, 1999, well after the fighting had officially ended. While these efforts were unsuccessful, the available evidence suggests that then-56 Brigade Commander Amar Aul responded by occupying two heights on the Pakistani side of the LoC, 4875 and 4251.

sSubsequently, the local commanders hammered out a deal, where both agreed to leave points 5353, 5240, 4251 and 4875 unoccupied.

Towards October-end, for reasons still not clear, the 16 Grenadiers were ordered to take Point 5240 and the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles Point 5353. While the 16 Grenadiers' attack proceeded as planned, despite bad weather, the 1-3 Gurkha Rifles, for reasons still not clear, never made their way up to Point 5353. When the Pakistani troops detected the Indian presence on 5240, they promptly reoccupied Point 5353.

Interestingly, however, the 16 Grenadiers' records on the Point 5353 assault refer to Point 5353 as "a minor objective." So too, do entries in Col. Oberoi's confidential service records. This assessment was vindicated during the artillery clashes in 2001-2002, when the Pakistani observation posts on Point 5353 were unable to bring accurate fire to bear on either the highway or nearby Indian positions. The Indian troops were able to tie down the Pakistani position with accurate fire, rendering it near-impossible for its superior altitude to be used to good effect.

Correction

The height of Tiger Hill is 4,660 metres (i.e., Point 4660), not 4,165 metres as reported in these columns on Tuesday.
 
Originally Posted by desiman
b) This point does not even give the Indian's any significant advantage over this area.

for god sake cut this crap, do you really wanna know its imortance??

[
B]Point 5353:[/B]
Manu Pubby
Tags : Line of Control, Tiger Hill, Kargil war, jammu and kashmir

Posted: Mon Jul 13 2009, 02:11 hrs


Standing tall and dominating the famous Tiger Hill on the Line of Control (LoC) is a grim reminder of the Kargil war. Point 5353, the highest peak in the region which has a clear view of the National Highway 1 D, remains occupied by Pakistan even a decade after the battle.


While the point is clearly on the Indian side of the LoC, it remains in Pakistani control which has fortified it with reinforced bunkers and has even built a special road nearby to carry up supplies for soldiers.



The Indian Army, which made several unsuccessful attempts to occupy the post after the Kargil war, has since given up the post as “untenable” given the geography of the region that makes it fairly easy for Pakistani troops to climb.



What makes Point 5353 so valuable for the two armies is that it has a clear view of the national highway that connects the Kashmir valley with Kargil. The main reason the Army retaliated hard to the Pakistani intrusion in 1999 was that disruption of traffic on the road would cut off supplies to Ladakh and the Siachen glacier
.
 
Pakistan's three Strategic force Commands have already enough weapons to wipe india of the map, but the new Pu warheads under development, that are in the mega tonnes will literally wipe the entity to the east, off the map...

It's horrible to say, but a sad reality that we have computed, a realistic outcome of a full nuclear envelope, which will result in the deaths of hundreds of millions of the adversary's population.
 
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Arundhati Roy
The Guardian, Friday 22 August 2008
Article history

A Kashmiri Muslim shows a victory sign during a march in Srinagar, India. Photograph: Dar Yasin/AP
For the past 60 days or so, since about the end of June, the people of Kashmir have been free. Free in the most profound sense. They have shrugged off the terror of living their lives in the gun-sights of half a million heavily armed soldiers, in the most densely militarised zone in the world.

After 18 years of administering a military occupation, the Indian government's worst nightmare has come true. Having declared that the militant movement has been crushed, it is now faced with a non-violent mass protest, but not the kind it knows how to manage. This one is nourished by people's memory of years of repression in which tens of thousands have been killed, thousands have been "disappeared", hundreds of thousands tortured, injured, and humiliated. That kind of rage, once it finds utterance, cannot easily be tamed, rebottled and sent back to where it came from.

A sudden twist of fate, an ill-conceived move over the transfer of 100 acres of state forest land to the Amarnath Shrine Board (which manages the annual Hindu pilgrimage to a cave deep in the Kashmir Himalayas) suddenly became the equivalent of tossing a lit match into a barrel of petrol. Until 1989 the Amarnath pilgrimage used to attract about 20,000 people who travelled to the Amarnath cave over a period of about two weeks. In 1990, when the overtly Islamist militant uprising in the valley coincided with the spread of virulent Hindu nationalism (Hindutva) in the Indian plains, the number of pilgrims began to increase exponentially. By 2008 more than 500,000 pilgrims visited the Amarnath cave, in large groups, their passage often sponsored by Indian business houses. To many people in the valley this dramatic increase in numbers was seen as an aggressive political statement by an increasingly Hindu-fundamentalist Indian state. Rightly or wrongly, the land transfer was viewed as the thin edge of the wedge. It triggered an apprehension that it was the beginning of an elaborate plan to build Israeli-style settlements, and change the demography of the valley.

Days of massive protest forced the valley to shut down completely. Within hours the protests spread from the cities to villages. Young stone pelters took to the streets and faced armed police who fired straight at them, killing several. For people as well as the government, it resurrected memories of the uprising in the early 90s. Throughout the weeks of protest, hartal (strikes) and police firing, while the Hindutva publicity machine charged Kashmiris with committing every kind of communal excess, the 500,000 Amarnath pilgrims completed their pilgrimage, not just unhurt, but touched by the hospitality they had been shown by local people.

Eventually, taken completely by surprise at the ferocity of the response, the government revoked the land transfer. But by then the land-transfer had become what Syed Ali Shah Geelani, the most senior and also the most overtly Islamist separatist leader, called a "non-issue".

Massive protests against the revocation erupted in Jammu. There, too, the issue snowballed into something much bigger. Hindus began to raise issues of neglect and discrimination by the Indian state. (For some odd reason they blamed Kashmiris for that neglect.) The protests led to the blockading of the Jammu-Srinagar highway, the only functional road-link between Kashmir and India. Truckloads of perishable fresh fruit and valley produce began to rot.

The blockade demonstrated in no uncertain terms to people in Kashmir that they lived on sufferance, and that if they didn't behave themselves they could be put under siege, starved, deprived of essential commodities and medical supplies.

To expect matters to end there was of course absurd. Hadn't anybody noticed that in Kashmir even minor protests about civic issues like water and electricity inevitably turned into demands for azadi, freedom? To threaten them with mass starvation amounted to committing political suicide.

Not surprisingly, the voice that the government of India has tried so hard to silence in Kashmir has massed into a deafening roar. Raised in a playground of army camps, checkpoints, and bunkers, with screams from torture chambers for a soundtrack, the young generation has suddenly discovered the power of mass protest, and above all, the dignity of being able to straighten their shoulders and speak for themselves, represent themselves. For them it is nothing short of an epiphany. Not even the fear of death seems to hold them back. And once that fear has gone, of what use is the largest or second largest army in the world?

There have been mass rallies in the past, but none in recent memory that have been so sustained and widespread. The mainstream political parties of Kashmir - National Conference and People's Democratic party - appear dutifully for debates in New Delhi's TV studios, but can't muster the courage to appear on the streets of Kashmir. The armed militants who, through the worst years of repression were seen as the only ones carrying the torch of azadi forward, if they are around at all, seem content to take a back seat and let people do the fighting for a change.

The separatist leaders who do appear and speak at the rallies are not leaders so much as followers, being guided by the phenomenal spontaneous energy of a caged, enraged people that has exploded on Kashmir's streets. Day after day, hundreds of thousands of people swarm around places that hold terrible memories for them. They demolish bunkers, break through cordons of concertina wire and stare straight down the barrels of soldiers' machine guns, saying what very few in India want to hear. Hum Kya Chahtey? Azadi! (We want freedom.) And, it has to be said, in equal numbers and with equal intensity: Jeevey jeevey Pakistan. (Long live Pakistan.)

That sound reverberates through the valley like the drumbeat of steady rain on a tin roof, like the roll of thunder during an electric storm.

On August 15, India's independence day, Lal Chowk, the nerve centre of Srinagar, was taken over by thousands of people who hoisted the Pakistani flag and wished each other "happy belated independence day" (Pakistan celebrates independence on August 14) and "happy slavery day". Humour obviously, has survived India's many torture centres and Abu Ghraibs in Kashmir.

On August 16 more than 300,000 people marched to Pampore, to the village of the Hurriyat leader, Sheikh Abdul Aziz, who was shot down in cold blood five days earlier.

On the night of August 17 the police sealed the city. Streets were barricaded, thousands of armed police manned the barriers. The roads leading into Srinagar were blocked. On the morning of August 18, people began pouring into Srinagar from villages and towns across the valley. In trucks, tempos, jeeps, buses and on foot. Once again, barriers were broken and people reclaimed their city. The police were faced with a choice of either stepping aside or executing a massacre. They stepped aside. Not a single bullet was fired.

The city floated on a sea of smiles. There was ecstasy in the air. Everyone had a banner; houseboat owners, traders, students, lawyers, doctors. One said: "We are all prisoners, set us free." Another said: "Democracy without freedom is demon-crazy." Demon-crazy. That was a good one. Perhaps he was referring to the insanity that permits the world's largest democracy to administer the world's largest military occupation and continue to call itself a democracy.

There was a green flag on every lamp post, every roof, every bus stop and on the top of chinar trees. A big one fluttered outside the All India Radio building. Road signs were painted over. Rawalpindi they said. Or simply Pakistan. It would be a mistake to assume that the public expression of affection for Pakistan automatically translates into a desire to accede to Pakistan. Some of it has to do with gratitude for the support - cynical or otherwise - for what Kashmiris see as their freedom struggle, and the Indian state sees as a terrorist campaign. It also has to do with mischief. With saying and doing what galls India most of all. (It's easy to scoff at the idea of a "freedom struggle" that wishes to distance itself from a country that is supposed to be a democracy and align itself with another that has, for the most part been ruled by military dictators. A country whose army has committed genocide in what is now Bangladesh. A country that is even now being torn apart by its own ethnic war. These are important questions, but right now perhaps it's more useful to wonder what this so-called democracy did in Kashmir to make people hate it so?)

Everywhere there were Pakistani flags, everywhere the cry Pakistan se rishta kya? La illaha illallah. (What is our bond with Pakistan? There is no god but Allah.) Azadi ka matlab kya? La illaha illallah. (What does freedom mean? There is no god but Allah.)

For somebody like myself, who is not Muslim, that interpretation of freedom is hard - if not impossible - to understand. I asked a young woman whether freedom for Kashmir would not mean less freedom for her, as a woman. She shrugged and said "What kind of freedom do we have now? The freedom to be raped by Indian soldiers?" Her reply silenced me.

Surrounded by a sea of green flags, it was impossible to doubt or ignore the deeply Islamic fervour of the uprising taking place around me. It was equally impossible to label it a vicious, terrorist jihad. For Kashmiris it was a catharsis. A historical moment in a long and complicated struggle for freedom with all the imperfections, cruelties and confusions that freedom struggles have. This one cannot by any means call itself pristine, and will always be stigmatised by, and will some day, I hope, have to account for, among other things, the brutal killings of Kashmiri Pandits in the early years of the uprising, culminating in the exodus of almost the entire Hindu community from the Kashmir valley.

As the crowd continued to swell I listened carefully to the slogans, because rhetoric often holds the key to all kinds of understanding. There were plenty of insults and humiliation for India: Ay jabiron ay zalimon, Kashmir hamara chhod do (Oh oppressors, Oh wicked ones, Get out of our Kashmir.) The slogan that cut through me like a knife and clean broke my heart was this one: Nanga bhookha Hindustan, jaan se pyaara Pakistan. (Naked, starving India, More precious than life itself - Pakistan.)

Why was it so galling, so painful to listen to this? I tried to work it out and settled on three reasons. First, because we all know that the first part of the slogan is the embarrassing and unadorned truth about India, the emerging superpower. Second, because all Indians who are not nanga or bhooka are and have been complicit in complex and historical ways with the elaborate cultural and economic systems that make Indian society so cruel, so vulgarly unequal. And third, because it was painful to listen to people who have suffered so much themselves mock others who suffer, in different ways, but no less intensely, under the same oppressor. In that slogan I saw the seeds of how easily victims can become perpetrators.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani began his address with a recitation from the Qur'an. He then said what he has said before, on hundreds of occasions. The only way for the struggle to succeed, he said, was to turn to the Qur'an for guidance. He said Islam would guide the struggle and that it was a complete social and moral code that would govern the people of a free Kashmir. He said Pakistan had been created as the home of Islam, and that that goal should never be subverted. He said just as Pakistan belonged to Kashmir, Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. He said minority communities would have full rights and their places of worship would be safe. Each point he made was applauded.

I imagined myself standing in the heart of a Hindu nationalist rally being addressed by the Bharatiya Janata party's (BJP) LK Advani. Replace the word Islam with the word Hindutva, replace the word Pakistan with Hindustan, replace the green flags with saffron ones and we would have the BJP's nightmare vision of an ideal India.

Is that what we should accept as our future? Monolithic religious states handing down a complete social and moral code, "a complete way of life"? Millions of us in India reject the Hindutva project. Our rejection springs from love, from passion, from a kind of idealism, from having enormous emotional stakes in the society in which we live. What our neighbours do, how they choose to handle their affairs does not affect our argument, it only strengthens it.

Arguments that spring from love are also fraught with danger. It is for the people of Kashmir to agree or disagree with the Islamist project (which is as contested, in equally complex ways, all over the world by Muslims, as Hindutva is contested by Hindus). Perhaps now that the threat of violence has receded and there is some space in which to debate views and air ideas, it is time for those who are part of the struggle to outline a vision for what kind of society they are fighting for. Perhaps it is time to offer people something more than martyrs, slogans and vague generalisations. Those who wish to turn to the Qur'an for guidance will no doubt find guidance there. But what of those who do not wish to do that, or for whom the Qur'an does not make place? Do the Hindus of Jammu and other minorities also have the right to self-determination? Will the hundreds of thousands of Kashmiri Pandits living in exile, many of them in terrible poverty, have the right to return? Will they be paid reparations for the terrible losses they have suffered? Or will a free Kashmir do to its minorities what India has done to Kashmiris for 61 years? What will happen to homosexuals and adulterers and blasphemers? What of thieves and lafangas and writers who do not agree with the "complete social and moral code"? Will we be put to death as we are in Saudi Arabia? Will the cycle of death, repression and bloodshed continue? History offers many models for Kashmir's thinkers and intellectuals and politicians to study. What will the Kashmir of their dreams look like? Algeria? Iran? South Africa? Switzerland? Pakistan?

At a crucial time like this, few things are more important than dreams. A lazy utopia and a flawed sense of justice will have consequences that do not bear thinking about. This is not the time for intellectual sloth or a reluctance to assess a situation clearly and honestly.

Already the spectre of partition has reared its head. Hindutva networks are alive with rumours about Hindus in the valley being attacked and forced to flee. In response, phone calls from Jammu reported that an armed Hindu militia was threatening a massacre and that Muslims from the two Hindu majority districts were preparing to flee. Memories of the bloodbath that ensued and claimed the lives of more than a million people when India and Pakistan were partitioned have come flooding back. That nightmare will haunt all of us forever.

However, none of these fears of what the future holds can justify the continued military occupation of a nation and a people. No more than the old colonial argument about how the natives were not ready for freedom justified the colonial project.

Of course there are many ways for the Indian state to continue to hold on to Kashmir. It could do what it does best. Wait. And hope the people's energy will dissipate in the absence of a concrete plan. It could try and fracture the fragile coalition that is emerging. It could extinguish this non-violent uprising and re-invite armed militancy. It could increase the number of troops from half a million to a whole million. A few strategic massacres, a couple of targeted assassinations, some disappearances and a massive round of arrests should do the trick for a few more years.

The unimaginable sums of public money that are needed to keep the military occupation of Kashmir going is money that ought by right to be spent on schools and hospitals and food for an impoverished, malnutritioned population in India. What kind of government can possibly believe that it has the right to spend it on more weapons, more concertina wire and more prisons in Kashmir?

The Indian military occupation of Kashmir makes monsters of us all. It allows Hindu chauvinists to target and victimise Muslims in India by holding them hostage to the freedom struggle being waged by Muslims in Kashmir.

India needs azadi from Kashmir just as much as - if not more than - Kashmir needs azadi from India.

Arundhati Roy asks what would independence mean to the people of Kashmir? | World news | The Guardian
 
We had just cause, India was moving in troops to Kashmir.


According to India, but Pakistan believes India was already moving its troops into Kashmir and moreover, Kashmiri population wanted Pakistan.


Yeah you didn't let us take the rest of Kashmir, so that sucks. But you know what they say, try try again.


You went to the UN, you called for a ceasefire. We immediately accepted. You said we'll do it peacefully, we accepted.

Now the fight was over - thats what ceasefire and accepting peaceful means - means. Now there are two choices, do the peaceful way or do it the violent way. So India has chosen the violent way.

AA, I have enough heard of this flawed logic by many fellow Pakistanis. Do you really have hand written letters of Kashmiris asking for help from Pakistam. Are you really sure if IA is moving there then you can even get your part of Kashmir?

Boundary commission for India Pakistan has worked in a manner to divide only Bengal and Punjab where Hindus and Muslim were mingled highly in a region. Rest lines are drawn basis on that, Hence Muslim majority land to go to Pakistan and Hindu or India preferred area will go to India, even that is flawed. If that would be the case then there would be plenty of India in Pakistan and Plenty of Pakistan in India. Hence another flawed logic for Junagadh, Hyderabad and Kashmir from India or say Kalat (Balochistan) or NWFP ( Frontier Gandhi wants to join India) is again flawed.

And lastly, if you want to try fight on Kashmir by providing moral supports by sending PA, Afghani, Tajiks, Uzbeki as Kashmiris then please carry on but if you try to send troops directly to fight with IA then be prepared to fight on other frontiers as well (Remember '65).
 
Bring it on dude :) and stop doing a chaka dance on the border ;)
 
Karthic.. pakistan may or may not be completely wiped out.. but to assume.. that India will live on is folly too..
I insist that all members.. Pakistani or Indian.. hateful or neutral.. watch this movie
YouTube - The Day After, Part I

Im not saying that India will be unscathed in an almost "improbable" nuke attack.But wat im trying to say is there will be Indians and not some but millions left to carry on.

Percentage wise India can annihilate more Pakistanis than the reverse cos of ur size.

Lets take for example:In a first attack Pakistan targets Bombay,Delhi,Amristar,Chandigarh,Surat,Ahmedabad,Kolkata,Chennai,Bangalore (not sure of the last 3 )cos of our developing ABM capability and for arguments sake manages to destroy all of them.
How much population will be killed 100 or 150 million
But them we have Mysore,Rajkot,Nagpur,Coimbatore,Trivandrum,Vijaywada,Pune etc etc to carry on.

But in retaliatory strike If India takes down Lahore,faisalabad,Hyderabad,Islamabad,Peshawar,Karachi,Multan,Pindi,Quetta wat cities of worth will be remaining in Pakistan and wat will be population remaining..?

this is wat i meant to say,


Take the time.. and then think.. even if India did survive.. is this the India you want to live in?
Is this something you are prepared to accept as ok, for your family, for millions of other families in India?
If you are.. then give me :rolleyes:

yes..It will not be the India I want to live in...But if push comes to shove..Im ready to live in it.After all can u recognise Hiroshima and Nagasaki today and before 65 years.?

India is huge.. there is no doubting that.. but like Pakistan, the majority of its populous is moving into urban centers.. 98% of them I assure u are targeted...
anyway.. we are derailing this thread.

And regarding ur percentage of population in cities...according to the latest census 65% of Indians were in villages,,,not cities

The simple conclusion is, whether this peak is in control or not, whether its unimportant or can lead to annexation of Kashmir is irrelevant. The events that preceded it.. the loss of life on both sides of the war was avoidable.. if for the ego of a dictator and his cohorts.
:cheers:

True words..

p.s: I stand by my post by sayng Nuke war is not happening in the sub-continent.If at all war happens..it will still remain a conventional war.
The world has too much to loose in allowing another nuke conflict and Im sure Pakistani Generals and Indian PMs are way way more responsible than some fanboi's out here.
 
lol, barathis say they won kargil war when they cannot even recapture the highest point 5353. Pathetic to say the least. :lol: :hitwall:
 
the cities you have exempted are not exempted from strikes, the number of nukes.. the actual number.. is much higher than reported .. so are the delivery systems.
Also.. cities aren't the only thing that are planned to be hit.. That too is one assurance I can give... the whole concept of our policy IS to have an equal capacity in nuclear weapons to deal similar scaled damage to India.
But regardless of the above, Hiroshima and Nagasaki may be going on.. but that was due to japan's surrender, and most of our weapons.. are much much more effective than fat man or little boy.

Irradiated cites, river systems, glaciers and atmosphere.. somehow, i dont think I would want to survive and then live on.
I would not like to see my friends and family die next to me from radiation while I hope to survive.

However, most likely a war wont go nuclear, and most likely wont last beyond a week.
 
the cities you have exempted are not exempted from strikes, the number of nukes.. the actual number.. is much higher than reported .. so are the delivery systems.
Also.. cities aren't the only thing that are planned to be hit.. That too is one assurance I can give... the whole concept of our policy IS to have an equal capacity in nuclear weapons to deal similar scaled damage to India.
But regardless of the above, Hiroshima and Nagasaki may be going on.. but that was due to japan's surrender, and most of our weapons.. are much much more effective than fat man or little boy.

Irradiated cites, river systems, glaciers and atmosphere.. somehow, i dont think I would want to survive and then live on.
I would not like to see my friends and family die next to me from radiation while I hope to survive.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::cry:....Then I ll go to NE india and start living there or go to Kerala or TN.

However, most likely a war wont go nuclear, and most likely wont last beyond a week.

True true true
 

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