What's new

PMLN announce political alliance with Jahangir Tareen party.

Ideological workers?? Hahahaha!!
The only ideological workers remaining in Pakistan are probably in the likes of TLP, TTP and Jamaat e Islami or some other quasi-religious party. The last mainstream, large 'ideological' party was the PPP and it shed its fake 'socialism' after 1986 when Benazir Bhutto returned to Pakistan from her exile.

There is absolutely no difference between PTI and PMLN as far as 'ideology' is concerned--both are Punjab based parties even if Imran, catering to the Taliban/Pashtuns (using Imran's fake Pashtun credentials, mind you) fooled people in the KP to support him. PPP is slightly to the Left of the Center--but only slightly. They all want power for the sake of power!

Pinning too much hopes in PTI was a folly. If the ongoing rapid, spectacular disintegration of PTI doesn't tell you that PTI was never a 'party' but a cult built around a personality then what would it take to convince you? You PDF Imran fanbois blame Sindhi Haaris (peasants) for blindly supporting the PPP-- how are you--the educated lot--any better? You have lost your objectivity. You are also the Sindhi Haaris of Pakistan. You support an obvious idiot, the dumbest politician ever risen to the top in Pakistan. You looked for some 'surprise' or ray of hope in this megalomaniac's every word where none existed.

On the other hand, the two other political parties--the PPP and the PMLN--which destroyed each other's reputations, ably helped by the military, have matured enough to re-asses their responses in light of changing scenarios. They are the true inheritors of Pakistan's politics just like the Democratic and the Republican Parties or the BJP and Congress Parties in India are. The parties in those countries are also corrupt, and into bad things. But they DO deliver in a way. There is continuity and stability. Smooth transfers of power matter a lot. They are not 'revolutionaries' but they are still far better than the fake revolutionary, stupid cult that Imran Khan was.
IK and PTI were a useful stop gap to fill the economic vacuum left by PML. Unfortunately for IK and PTI their idealism and inexperience wasn't the requirement for the power brokers and their direct challenge to the Army didn't end well.
 
.
IK and PTI were a useful stop gap to fill the economic vacuum left by PML. Unfortunately for IK and PTI their idealism and inexperience wasn't the requirement for the power brokers and their direct challenge to the Army didn't end well.

The 'challenge' to the Army happened quite late and only because the Army refused to back Imran Khan back to power after April 2022. Otherwise, there was the 'one page' and Bajwa was the 'Baap' (father). I don't know how people can't go back just a few years ago to see what Imran said then.

Imran's path to power in 2018 was through the Army and Imran's path back to power after April 2022 was through the Army. And when the Army didn't oblige him after April 2022, Imran (stupidly) turned against the Army. By now even the most ardent supporters of Imran like Irshad Bhatti are pointing out Imran's huge blunders which were rooted in the power play. Imran was too impatient to get back to power.

He dug his own political grave and the root cause of his downfall is not some PDF members like me: It was Imran's stupidity and arrogance.
 
.
The 'challenge' to the Army happened quite late and only because the Army refused to back Imran Khan back to power after April 2022. Otherwise, there was the 'one page' and Bajwa was the 'Baap' (father). I don't know how people can't go back just a few years ago to see what Imran said then.

Imran's path to power in 2018 was through the Army and Imran's path back to power after April 2022 was through the Army. And when the Army didn't oblige him after April 2022, Imran (stupidly) turned against the Army. By now even the most ardent supporters of Imran like Irshad Bhatti are pointing out Imran's huge blunders which were rooted in the power play. Imran was too impatient to get back to power.

He dug his own political grave and the root cause of his downfall is not some PDF members like me: It was Imran's stupidity and arrogance.
the dung and manure continues.
 
.
The 'challenge' to the Army happened quite late and only because the Army refused to back Imran Khan back to power after April 2022. Otherwise, there was the 'one page' and Bajwa was the 'Baap' (father). I don't know how people can't go back just a few years ago to see what Imran said then.

Imran's path to power in 2018 was through the Army and Imran's path back to power after April 2022 was through the Army. And when the Army didn't oblige him after April 2022, Imran (stupidly) turned against the Army. By now even the most ardent supporters of Imran like Irshad Bhatti are pointing out Imran's huge blunders which were rooted in the power play. Imran was too impatient to get back to power.

He dug his own political grave and the root cause of his downfall is not some PDF members like me: It was Imran's stupidity and arrogance.
1686521178763.png
 
.
.,.,
What I’m most scared of….
PPP coming back even in Punjab with the army’s blessings
They turned Karachi into a wasteland what will they do to every other part of the country?

Imagine them bringing PPP in Punjab. The only somewhat liveable province in the country & it will turn into another disaster zone.

Plus the idea of Bilawal as PM? We will actually be a banana republic.

Its not going to happen for now, IPP is created for this reason, PPP must be furious as all ex PTI members should have joined PPP according to them, this would have given them 30+ seats in Punjab + 50 from Sindh and other areas. The establishment will try to make IPP in to a modern party like PTI, targeting the youth, calling for reforms and better policies, just like PTI did. Keep in mind, before PTI came to power, IK always talked about reforms, free and fair elections, action against the corrupt, accountability, making Pakistan better for investment for overseas Pakistanis etc. If the establishment didn't want this then PTI would never have been allowed to rise. Unless ofcourse IPP flops like PSP 😆
 
.
You and I tend to agree on most things here. But here we differ.
My basic point is Imran was a power hungry stupid arrogant person not suitable to rule a complex country like Pakistan. Sincerity and financial proprietary without a brain just doesn't cut it. There are tens of millions of well-meaning Pakistanis who are absolutely not corrupt. Probably the Moulvi of the mosque near my home in Karachi would qualify as 'Sadiq and Amin', as would the greats like Sattar Edhi. But were they the 'material' to rule a country like Pakistan?? No.

Also, I am sad to see even otherwise smart people like you and @PakFactor can't see that Imran made HUGE blunders and the roots of his blunders were in his stupid, arrogant brain. He is too stupid to lead Pakistan. I am resisting accusing him of corruption or manhandling of opponents and of his other faults because I don't have any proof of those and I am a very careful person in forming my opinion. But I have formed my opinion and I don't see anything in Imran Khan's behavior to make me change that opinion.
He is the 'Nadaan Dost' of Pakistan, at best.

PS. You are likely to see in coming weeks that the recent changes have the blessings of Pakistan's foreign friends, starting from China. There were already hints about that before the May 9 events. One of my favorite Chinese PDF Members said months ago that Imran's agitation was not good for Pakistan. Often people not too deep into the fanboism in Pakistan have the perspective to make objective analysis.

It’s not that I found him the best or even decently capable of running the country, but he was trying and learning on the job. I for one had hoped he would have had the courage to keep on Atif Mian, for instance, but I did call him out when he made disappointing decisions, but gave him the benefit of the doubt consider the alternative choices we have.

I didn’t find him corrupt but just over his head with the task in front of him. A skilled political actor with decades of expertise, domestically and internationally would have known better what faux pas and downright undiplomatic things not to say. It’s not that I didn’t mention it over the years, but had hoped his team would help him along. As they say, you dance with the one who brung ya, so the blame also has to fall on his team from all institutions and backgrounds. He was a Kennedy figure, but even Kennedy had some experience and a decent team with decades of experience, and a foundation laid by Eisenhower.

At this point, the nation needs a thought out narrative along with a political and economic off-ramp, which is why IMHO, IK needs to be brought back in, but as a one term President, akin to Zardari in 2008-2013. Ayesha Siddiqi, an expert on the army, in a recent blog with Wajahat Khan said IK only came to parliament 3 times in his tenure, so I think at best he’s himself would be better off as the president and a fundraiser for the country (especially amongst investors and the diaspora), but this time kept on an agreed upon message, for the sake of the country and for him to ride into the sunset with dignity.

The political and economic changes, under an IK presidency, could also allow the state to craft a more appealing situation with regards to our efforts vis a vi Kashmir. Equally. IN could be instrumental in crafting a better understanding with the Afghans, and speed up the realization of our geopolitical and economic interests in Central Asia, and by that globally.

Let someone else, possibly SMQ, take over as PM and have a team of actual experts craft a diplomatic and economic plan to see the country through the next 5 years, balancing east and west.

The issue is that people’s expectations have been raised for decent governance for over ten years now; especially since PTI won a decent number of seats in 2013. So it’s been building for well over a decade. In fact expectations have been growing for decades now. Before this turn of events, People have been hoping the nation would turn the corner when Zia’s plane crashed and the Cold War ended.

Benazir, for example, was also very well spoke and charismatic, the first female leader of a Muslim majority country, I grew up in New York where the Pakistani community was largely “liberal leaning” and not politically focused. We could have remade our image back then, we still had somewhat of a decent economy and the goodwill in the world, the effects of Zia’s rule had only been felt by the country for 12 years at that point. But it seems that wasn’t to be.

Benazir could have led, in the 90s towards the same reforms being done at the time in India, and we could have been in a better political and economic state. But the back and forth with PMLN turned the politics and economic landscape into a circus, with many in the community here happy to see Musharraf take over.

IK came into power because electables joined his party, by whatever means that happened. So the cycle continued. But why do we have to live with a cycle? Also the kabuki theater that is Punjab politics, doesn’t allow the best to rise from the bottom on purely merit.

The crux of my argument is why is the public being toyed with. Very few years the nation pivots and only in 2013 could the PPP hand over power to the PMLN, the first time a government completed its term. No stability and no true development. We need a Deng Xioping figure; “I don’t care if the cat is white or tabby, as long as it catches mice”. IK tried to be a cat, the others don’t seem to even be trying.
 
Last edited:
.
Few weeks ago I was at the Mosque for Friday prayer and there were these traditional budday babay. Again talking nonce nonsense like @Meengla does. some of their dire garbage heap was what do young people know? these budday harami and their generation know best apparently that's why Pakistan is in the s#it.

While those budday were talking claptrap some youngsters sitting opposite were laughing at their conversation. the budday babay were again praising the junta and talking s#it against Khan.

The problem is where these budday reside i.e The UK. The UK prioritises the young generation to take UK forward and so does the world at large.

But in Pakistan these khabees budday keep Pakistan in the dark ages and supress the young. That's where the junta has lapsed after keeping Pakistani quom hungry and ignorant. because educated people can get the better of people like the junta.

That's why the junta needs to restrict internet to keep their narrative on top but no longer managing it.

God willing the junta will fall either from within or externally. how the junta falls one day will be beyond their control.

I spent years of my life arguing with Bengali's on 1971. Today does anyone doubt that these harami junta were the reason why Pakistan was broken into two? Not anymore.

But @Meengla can easily blame Khan for that too.

What you mentioned is correct to an extent. The older generations don't like to let things go, they don't understand the modern methods etc. I worked in Masjid/school committes, and its exactly like that, they can hardly speak English, don't like outsiders, love urdu speeches and hate english ones, will not hire educated imams, instead will bring Pakistani imams for peanuts, will not accept reforms in education system. The only reason I believe is because their power will be gone, and they won't allow others to do it because otherwise they will be sidelined as they dont understand the education system, reforms, health and safety, child protection etc.

But the older generation too have qualities, such as they work hard and give alot of money to the masjid, give alot of money to poor back home, are loyal to the masjid etc. The younger generation are good at many things but bad at others, most are westernised. Lastly you will not believe this but the biggest trouble was caused by educated British boys in the committe, unbelievable amount of dirty politics.

I would say the same problems is in most mosques in Pakistan, same problem in PIA, judiciary, government, police, establishment, we have the old guards who are not willing to change for a better Pakistan, they don't like to listen to others, they all work to get credit, if someone gives a good idea, they will just ignore it or will try their best to not implement it because its not their idea. You see noone will never hire you in police if your not their man, they always hire their own connections so later on they can benefit, the same problem is all over Pakistan. I am sure the Pakistani business elite must think twice before making reforms where foreign investors are protected, this is because they will have competition.

My relative and his pal (not Pakistani) have a big company in India, at first they went to Pakistan because my relative dad said invest in your own land, his pal went and he said Pakistan is 30+ years behind India, he will not invest where mafia has power, where your investment is not protected, where anyone can make false cases on you, charge you tax but then say you didn't pay by hiding papers, he straight away clicked. PTI leader Ali Muhammad Khan met them, took photos with them, they liked him etc, we Pakistanis will fall for it but the business people want guarantees of investment protection, they want the country to be accommodating among other things.
 
.
What you mentioned is correct to an extent. The older generations don't like to let things go, they don't understand the modern methods etc. I worked in Masjid/school committes, and its exactly like that, they can hardly speak English, don't like outsiders, love urdu speeches and hate english ones, will not hire educated imams, instead will bring Pakistani imams for peanuts, will not accept reforms in education system. The only reason I believe is because their power will be gone, and they won't allow others to do it because otherwise they will be sidelined as they dont understand the education system, reforms, health and safety, child protection etc.

But the older generation too have qualities, such as they work hard and give alot of money to the masjid, give alot of money to poor back home, are loyal to the masjid etc. The younger generation are good at many things but bad at others, most are westernised. Lastly you will not believe this but the biggest trouble was caused by educated British boys in the committe, unbelievable amount of dirty politics.

I would say the same problems is in most mosques in Pakistan, same problem in PIA, judiciary, government, police, establishment, we have the old guards who are not willing to change for a better Pakistan, they don't like to listen to others, they all work to get credit, if someone gives a good idea, they will just ignore it or will try their best to not implement it because its not their idea. You see noone will never hire you in police if your not their man, they always hire their own connections so later on they can benefit, the same problem is all over Pakistan. I am sure the Pakistani business elite must think twice before making reforms where foreign investors are protected, this is because they will have competition.

My relative and his pal (not Pakistani) have a big company in India, at first they went to Pakistan because my relative dad said invest in your own land, his pal went and he said Pakistan is 30+ years behind India, he will not invest where mafia has power, where your investment is not protected, where anyone can make false cases on you, charge you tax but then say you didn't pay by hiding papers, he straight away clicked. PTI leader Ali Muhammad Khan met them, took photos with them, they liked him etc, we Pakistanis will fall for it but the business people want guarantees of investment protection, they want the country to be accommodating among other things.
with everything you have described. Can you tell me who and what the reason behind it is? The junta ofcourse. PTI and IK only had 3 years in central gov and 10+ years in one province.

However the harami junta has been controlling the nation since the birth of the country.

We know what their conduct is and what its about. BUT @Meengla has an amazing grasp on reality. amazingly advocates for the junta that even ISPR cannot manage.

The people of Pakistan are another problem and their attitudes to life. Where most of the world prioritises things like what the future will be. Pakistanis mindset revolves around being the head honcho. Tribal mindset even those in the UK display it.

Third world Africa is getting its act together hell even North Korea too. BUT Pakistan wants to become north korea so never again will the Pharaohs of Pakistan get challenged and questioned.
 
.
with everything you have described. Can you tell me who and what the reason behind it is? The junta ofcourse. PTI and IK only had 3 years in central gov and 10+ years in one province.

However the harami junta has been controlling the nation since the birth of the country.

We know what their conduct is and what its about. BUT @Meengla has an amazing grasp on reality. amazingly advocates for the junta that even ISPR cannot manage.

The people of Pakistan are another problem and their attitudes to life. Where most of the world prioritises things like what the future will be. Pakistanis mindset revolves around being the head honcho. Tribal mindset even those in the UK display it.

Third world Africa is getting its act together hell even North Korea too. BUT Pakistan wants to become north korea so never again will the Pharaohs of Pakistan get challenged and questioned.

The elite/establishment is definitely responsible, counting after 1990. Pmln/PPP have been ruling since decades, they are tried and failed, military ruled for 8 years during Mushraff time, also failed. India made good policies whilst Pakistan was still stuck in the 1990s. Pakistan never made any major reforms, updated the system, atleast hold free and fair elections, give rights to overseas Pakistanis for votes, bring in EVM. What's so difficult? They don't do it on purpose because they think they will not be able to influence them.

We had alot of hope for PTI and IK, a reformist development party. Brother @Meengla was a big Pti supporter but he is just disappointed with what happened, i can understand where he is coming from, he wanted PTI leadership to make good decisions, protect the party, protect the hardwork, dont allow lotas (look what happened now), try to make decisions in benefit of the party and Pakistan but the anti establishment narrative destroyed Pti, the NCM, not listening to SMQ, Pervez Ellahi, Sheikh Rasheed caused destruction to the party. He is correct though.

We should all accept this and move on. PTI needs to first try to make peace with the establishment, release all workers, get rid of all the fake cases, then come to some kind of agreement with the establishment regarding foreign policy, relations, internal security, regarding appointments of generals etc. So no issue arise afterwards, but also agree to bring major reforms, update the system, make institutes strong and independent, rule of law. If the junta doesn't agree then what can PTI or IK do? Imran Khan is a legend, he doesn't deserve to be treated like a war criminal. His own party leaders deserted him, in Oct 2023 elections we will witness the people are also the same, brother @Meengla knows this.
 
.
Its not going to happen for now, IPP is created for this reason, PPP must be furious as all ex PTI members should have joined PPP according to them, this would have given them 30+ seats in Punjab + 50 from Sindh and other areas. The establishment will try to make IPP in to a modern party like PTI, targeting the youth, calling for reforms and better policies, just like PTI did. Keep in mind, before PTI came to power, IK always talked about reforms, free and fair elections, action against the corrupt, accountability, making Pakistan better for investment for overseas Pakistanis etc. If the establishment didn't want this then PTI would never have been allowed to rise. Unless ofcourse IPP flops like PSP 😆
PTI and IK are seen as the anti-status quo option. All others look like an overnight project. The people won’t buy it.

They sold us PTI, we bought it and went along. They can’t just do a switch a ru at the r last minute with a generic PTI copy. They are better off with IK as president making some of the reforms, especially economics and related to social services and education related, and letting IK retire in 2028.
 
.
PTI and IK are seen as the anti-status quo option. All others look like an overnight project. The people won’t buy it.

They sold us PTI, we bought it and went along. They can’t just do a switch a ru at the r last minute. They are better off with IK as president making some of the reforms, especially economics and related to social services and education related, and letting IK retire in 2028.

I wouldn't mind IK and PTI coming back but with some clever and intelligent politics, the reality is the military will never allow IK or PTI back, the decision has been made. This is why brother @Meengla is saying PTI or IK needs to back off for a few years and then slowly make a big come back, let everything calm down. What if elections in Oct 2023 come and all PTI MNAs/MPAs get arrested and jailed, how will PTI have a chance to win, they have no choice but to play some good politics and make good decisions, for IK, the party, Pakistan and the workers in jails.
 
.
At this point, the nation needs a thought out narrative along with a political and economic off-ramp, which is why IMHO, IK needs to be brought back in, but as a one term President, akin to Zardari in 2008-2013. Ayesha Siddiqi, an expert on the army, in a recent blog with Wajahat Khan said IK only came to parliament 3 times in his tenure, so I think at best he’s himself would be better off as the president
You wrote a thought provoking post. But this part?? Imran as President?? My friend: Which world you are living in? Imran, as a cricketer as I saw him in my younger years, was always authoritarian. He HAD to be the top-guy. Even when the 1992 World Cup was won, which had as much to do with Imran as with Inzi, Miandad and Akram: Imran in his victory speech used 'I' . That was over 30 years ago!! The guy is an egomaniac, a Narcisstic--a psyscho and you expect him to become a figurative head of the State??

The older generations don't like to let things go, they don't understand the modern methods etc.

Okay, I have been called a 'Boomer' in this thread. I am not. I am a Gen-X and Imran is old enough to be my father. The 'Boomer', meant as insult, should have been pointed toward Imran if age was a factor. But I thought, in Pakistani / Asian culture, the elders are respected for their 'wisdom'? Be as it may, if being a 'Boomer' is problem then Imran is a Boomer.

Not that you said 'Boomer' but I wouldn't stoop myself to respond to some clue-less expats who probably don't know how to read and write in Urdu and are, unintentionally, part of engineering Pakistan's destruction. I generally skip their posts after a few words of reading-- I have only banned/muted 1-2 Members here in my entire PDF presence. I like to listen to all viewpoints.
 
.
The people of Pakistan are another problem and their attitudes to life. Where most of the world prioritises things like what the future will be. Pakistanis mindset revolves around being the head honcho. Tribal mindset even those in the UK display it.
It’s a learned behavior, not intrinsic to Pakistani people. This is the business culture of Pakistan. This is why Musharaf got along great with Bush early on. This is what smart people are forced to do to move up in life.

Now imagine a relatively naive and simpleminded overseas investor coming to the country, and having to deal with this. They turn tail and leave on the first flight out.

You wrote a thought provoking post. But this part?? Imran as President?? My friend: Which world you are living in? Imran, as a cricketer as I saw him in my younger years, was always authoritarian. He HAD to be the top-guy. Even when the 1992 World Cup was won, which had as much to do with Imran as with Inzi, Miandad and Akram: Imran in his victory speech used 'I' . That was over 30 years ago!! The guy is an egomaniac, a Narcisstic--a psyscho and you expect him to become a figurative head of the State??

It’s an off ramp, and a way for him to take the blame (which he is probably willing to do, if he can say he made a difference) for the hard reforms that have to be made. Let his ego of claiming credit be channel thusly. Besides, how much have you heard from President Alvi before 2022. IK as President and SMQ as PM, with enough of a mandate to make a change and reset the economic and social course of the nation for one 5 year term. IK then agrees to retire. It’s good for the nation. It lets people know they won’t have IK after that.

I remember seeing the other players talk about him claiming credit. Even asking them to donate all the proceeds or something along those lines. But remember he was allowed to break the two party system because “they” wanted people involved. The common curriculum, dealing with Trump.

If Trump wins in 2024, don’t you think “they” would want IK back in because of the personal relationship. IK was used and allowed himself to be used. He accepted the system and tried work work within it, as evidenced by dissolving two assemblies to appeal to the supremacy of the constitution.
He hoped to reform it from the inside, but underestimated the willingness of the elite to not want to sacrifice for the long term benefit.

Either way, he has shaped a large part of the psyche of the population. If he leaves the political scene in a wrong way it will turn our youth into the equivalent of the American boomers post Kennedy assassination; perpetual malcontents.

 
Last edited:
.
The elite/establishment is definitely responsible, counting after 1990. Pmln/PPP have been ruling since decades, they are tried and failed, military ruled for 8 years during Mushraff time, also failed. India made good policies whilst Pakistan was still stuck in the 1990s. Pakistan never made any major reforms, updated the system, atleast hold free and fair elections, give rights to overseas Pakistanis for votes, bring in EVM. What's so difficult? They don't do it on purpose because they think they will not be able to influence them.

We had alot of hope for PTI and IK, a reformist development party. Brother @Meengla was a big Pti supporter but he is just disappointed with what happened, i can understand where he is coming from, he wanted PTI leadership to make good decisions, protect the party, protect the hardwork, dont allow lotas (look what happened now), try to make decisions in benefit of the party and Pakistan but the anti establishment narrative destroyed Pti, the NCM, not listening to SMQ, Pervez Ellahi, Sheikh Rasheed caused destruction to the party. He is correct though.

We should all accept this and move on. PTI needs to first try to make peace with the establishment, release all workers, get rid of all the fake cases, then come to some kind of agreement with the establishment regarding foreign policy, relations, internal security, regarding appointments of generals etc. So no issue arise afterwards, but also agree to bring major reforms, update the system, make institutes strong and independent, rule of law. If the junta doesn't agree then what can PTI or IK do? Imran Khan is a legend, he doesn't deserve to be treated like a war criminal. His own party leaders deserted him, in Oct 2023 elections we will witness the people are also the same, brother @Meengla knows this.
sorry, here is the problem. I guess once you have been on PDF long enough you realise who is who after a while.

@Meengla literally parrots the pointers of GHQ/ISPR. You see there was a tirade laden thread made by this tout making all sorts of accusations on IK during bajwa's time.

How out of the blue and perfectly timed it was as if ISPR/GHQ had an direct upload link to @Meengla

anyway, I have been following politics of Pakistan since the 80's and remember the musical chairs of the 90's and how the then establishment launched mian amritsari kabaria lohar against ppp.

then you see you could carryout the bajwa type haramzadghi with ease. not today. even bhutto's people were forced to leave him. however today as the junta stands exposed everyone knows the game at play.

The junta needs to understand that its grip on power has been exposed. even in the 80's people who spoke against the junta existed but they were negligible in numbers but today majority of the 250+ million are anti junta.

even if IK is killed under some false case like they are trying who is going to buy this script? They want to eliminate a Hero of Pakistan so the junta can continue to be subservient to its american masters.

I used to be pro junta. One has to realise that the nation has been kept hungry, illiterate and jahil for so long. That was by design and its designers are the junta. literally where the british left off the junta picked it up and continues it.

lastly, even the sister of Jinnah was a traitor!! that's how evil this junta is. @Meengla is their spokesperson on this here forum.

It’s a learned behavior, not intrinsic to Pakistani people. This is the business culture of Pakistan. This is why Musharaf got along great with Bush early on. This is what smart people are forced to do to move up in life.

Now imagine a relatively naive and simpleminded overseas investor coming to the country, and having to deal with this. They turn tail and leave on the first flight out.
Those of us who are born overseas and know a world where Pakistani system does not exist are always going to be threat. We overseas people know a working system and the Pakistani system. Because we can see Pakistan from in and out.

I have seen Pakistan's Thrive once they left Pakistan and settled abroad BUT they would trillion percent have failed to climb the ladder in Pakistan unless blessing of the junta was on their side.
 
Last edited:
.
Okay, I have been called a 'Boomer' in this thread. I am not. I am a Gen-X and Imran is old enough to be my father. The 'Boomer', meant as insult, should have been pointed toward Imran if age was a factor. But I thought, in Pakistani / Asian culture, the elders are respected for their 'wisdom'? Be as it may, if being a 'Boomer' is problem then Imran is a Boomer.

Not that you said 'Boomer' but I wouldn't stoop myself to respond to some clue-less expats who probably don't know how to read and write in Urdu and are, unintentionally, part of engineering Pakistan's destruction. I generally skip their posts after a few words of reading-- I have only banned/muted 1-2 Members here in my entire PDF presence. I like to listen to all viewpoints.

I try to understand their point of view, they are correct on some issues but then make some mistakes. We all are learning, it's not like we will be making decisions for Pakistan on PDF. I am sure when the Pakistani governments meet to make policies it must be chaos like on PDF and they can never agree. Same when establishment/governments kick off. We need to learn to sort out the differences on the table by listening and understanding others point of view, and then moving forward.

The example given regarding Masjid/school reforms is a perfect one, we have the old guards who don't understand change v the young ones who can make a change but are too immature. Now the question is how can you remove the oldies or bring changes, should we go to schools/masjids and fight with the oldies, cause chaos, swearing, tension, propaganda. The answer is a big NO.
We need highly intelligent people, who can work with the oldies but also bring in the changes, this is possible if you have highly intelligent, diplomatic people, they will convince them the changes will benefit them, the school, community, you don't want educated young people who cannot control their emotions and ego

Emotional intelligence is very important. I believe this is what is needed in all Pakistanis, and this is why your so disappointed in PTI decision making which lead us to where we are now. We all had hopes and now were back to the 1990s.

Just a quick video I found on YouTube.
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom