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PM rejects proposal to buy more DEMU trains from China

At 4:13 this old train was made in Tangshan , China, might be exported to BD in the 80's or 90's, old trains are very simple, they are not integrated with any recent technology, easy to run and easy to repair, not much maintenance needed, but those won't make them better trains than the trains today.

 
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I almost never highlight Indian products, but you gotta give credit where it is due. When someone makes a good product you have to give them props. Look at the modern ICF demu that was sold to Sri Lanka. @anant_s your comments on the equipment technicalities please.

Chinese suppliers don't understand 'appropriate use' in the subcontinental context.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/indian-economy-news-updates.27787/page-513#post-10945560
You can buy India trains in the future, and your railway system won't change for another hundred years. India is trying to introduce Japanese bullet train, some reports say that the future maintence will cost many times more than the money to be spent on building them.
 
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You can buy India trains in the future, and your railway system won't change for another hundred years. India is trying to introduce Japanese bullet train, some reports say that the future maintence will cost many times more than the money to be spent on building them.

Your opinion is yours alone.

None of us commenting here hold any influence over what will be purchased, from which country or if the railway system in Bangladesh will change or how soon. So over-inflating our opinions or importance is rather sad.

Hubris is a bad thing and especially in an Asian context. When a former impoverished country (especially in Asia) gets a few dollars in development funds, it goes to their head. The measured response and sober thoughts of your ancestors in China are gone. It has been replaced by bellicose rhetoric and bullying tactics. It is the new middle kingdom.

Again, none of us are obligated to buy Chinese equipment if it is sub-par quality, doesn't meet our requirements or is unpopular. Just the facts.

It wasn't too long ago, that the GDP of China was below that of Bangladesh and everyone thought China "won't change for another hundred years". Now look at you lot throwing your weight around and claiming the high road of HSR's and high technology. :-)

How quickly things change! Change is a constant - that you can bet on.

Chinese products sell all around the world, which country sells more products than China? which country sells more trains than China?

Chinese products sell on price alone. The price to quality ratio is however questionable. You don't come close to Japanese (or even Korean) products on those counts - especially quality. My personal experience of at least fifteen some odd years of observation. This may change however.

However labor cost in China is rapidly increasing and even currency manipulation of the Yuan is not working. So there lies the future as far as sales based on price alone. You have to do a better job on quality and innovate on your own and base your sales on competing with the Japanese and the Koreans. That includes the topic of the current discussion, DEMU's and railway rolling stock.
 
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Chinese side cant see the heavy usage of Bd trains including heavy cargo on the rooftop of coaches. Not to mention they failed to provide on the site heavy maintenance units and repairing depo for the more complicated units DEMU when Bangladesh railway only providing maintenance depo for archaic type of Coach and train
No country or company give anything free or without a contract. The GoB certainly did not order for the maintenance workshops for DEMU or others. Thanks to the non-aristocrat British that they had built two workshops in BD may be more than hundred years ago. All these current problems are due to people like @Homo Sapiens who love all things owned by the inept govt of his Golden Bangladesh. He thinks this is a part of development. A very silly opinion he always sends, unpatriotic.
 
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Many of the old trains running in BD were also made in China, Chinese travelers saw Chinese made trains in BD which were made in the 1970's and 1980's, they are still running. Newer model trains actually need more maintenance, because they are more complex involving more recent technologies in them, you have an a hundred year old 18th century train still operational doesn't mean it's a better train than a intensive maintenance needed bullet train now.

I don't have any idea what the heck you're talking about. I don't believe there were any Chinese made locomotives imported in Bangladesh during 1970's and 1980's. Please quote a source, I am pretty certain since I take interest in local rail operations in Bangladesh.

We imported Korean locomotives Hyundai Built EMD GT18 which are designated in Class 2600 and again another batch in class 2800 and 2900. We also imported Henschel built Metre Gauge locos as class 2700 in the 70's and 80's. Most of them are still running today. Broad Gauge locos are mostly Indian and they are more or less reliable designs from EMD and GE. We don't buy throwaway locos.

This is the Hyundai Rotem GT18LA
16031001051_7733713b5f_k.jpg


And this is the Henschel type
1024px-BR_2705.jpg


Here is a thread I posted on four years ago showing various Bangladesh Railway Locos,
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/railway-engines-of-different-countries.110832/page-14#post-6891744

China built Dong Fang Hong (DFH 1 through 7) series designs during 1970's and 1980's were too unreliable to be imported to Bangladesh.

By the way - Chinese firms get blacklisted all the time in our Subcontinent because of non-performance or breach of contracts.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/railway-engines-of-different-countries.110832/page-13#post-4405289

Chinese contractors can't help being shady, there is no repercussion by Chinese govt. or Chinese courts. Operating as fly-by-night is apparently allowed in China.

Rather than Chinese posters vilifying me for speaking the truth, please go back and fix your export laws and make your exporters accountable. There will be no further orders if Chinese equipment starts failing in spite of being maintained per training and instructions and Chinese suppliers don't stand behind them per contract.
 
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Chinese products sell on price alone. The price to quality ratio is however questionable. You don't come close to Japanese (or even Korean) products on those counts - especially quality. My personal experience of at least fifteen some odd years of observation. This may change however.

However labor cost in China is rapidly increasing and even currency manipulation of the Yuan is not working. So there lies the future as far as sales based on price alone. You have to do a better job on quality and innovate on your own and base your sales on competing with the Japanese and the Koreans. That includes the topic of the current discussion, DEMU's and railway rolling stock.
Chinese products are good value for money and that's why they dominate the world market, if you are businessman would you like your products sell or they have everything the best but no one buys them because of the high price? Japanese electrnonics used to flood world market and now nowhere to be seen, Nokia, Ericsson, Motorola phones use to be everywhere, now are all gone. The only thing that matters for any products is if they sell, if not, they are be out of business the companies make them will be going bankrupt and become extince, that's common sense you fail to get.

Again, none of us are obligated to buy Chinese equipment if it is sub-par quality, doesn't meet our requirements or is unpopular. Just the facts.
No one force you to buy Chinese products or take Chinese loans, we are here just discussing some claims made by OP, of course you can buy from whatever countries you want, or choose to make things yourself.
 
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The only thing that matters for any products is if they sell, if not, they are be out of business the companies make them will be going bankrupt and become extince, that's common sense you fail to get.

Well OK let's talk common sense.

I am buying a disposable item (maybe shaving cream or cookies). I will try cheaper brand (maybe walmart's or target's own dept. store brand) and if I don't like it no big deal. I am out maybe a couple of dollars. No regrets.

However if the railway plans to buy a locomotive (or I buy a cellphone) they are looking at a longer term purchase for at least a decade or more and they WILL care about payback and ROI. They will also look at after-sales support and maintenance contracts. If the Chinese supplier sells on price alone and does not live up to contractual obligations that is a serious matter. They will not be given repeat business. It is sad that most Chinese suppliers have trouble understanding this concept.

Blacklisting of Chinese suppliers has happened in Pakistan and now in Bangladesh with the DEMU fiasco- you can tell how serious this is when the PM of a country discussed this in a negative light.

Price is not the only factor when buying DURABLE GOODS. Price-to-quality ratio however is. What is also commonly called 'bang-for-the-buck' in the US.

That is why Japanese cellphones in the US (SONY) don't sell anymore because they are considered too pricey for features offered. People buy Korean cellphones or iPhones with a premium price (my last cell cost well over $1000). Will people buy Chinese cellphones? Maybe lower tier buyers will look at OPPO, Pocophone, Huawei etc. But mature buyers will not take a chance. They want dependability and functionality, not experimentation.

However some Japanese/Korean expensive TV brands and Microwaves are still doing fine in the US. They have a quality reputation built up over three decades and people will buy these 'durable goods' as opposed to disposable goods, even with a premium price. My TV's and Microwaves (both Japanese) are both over a decade old and going like champs (knock on wood). :-)

I will always buy Panasonic Microwaves and Samsung TVs. Samsung TVs are not the cheapest, but I will buy them at a premium over a cheapest brand like (say HAIER) because I like reliability and better picture quality which only comes with good R&D. A Samsung 4K 65 incher will cost around $1800 at Costco, I have seen HAIER 65" TV's at Walmart selling for $600. I will still buy the SAMSUNG.

In microwaves too, reliability is essential (the Microwave tube and the electronics both need to be heatproof and reliable). No one wants to face angry womenfolk relatives in their home when a Microwave fails during a guest-event. Those are important considerations.

My time is much more valuable than calling support and dealing with an unreliable Chinese manufacturer who will not honor maintenance contract and warranty. I'd rather buy a better, more reliable product and have peace of mind.

There is a saying in Bengali "Cheap items have three conditions". Better to spend a few bucks extra and not have any regrets.


For third tier product manufacturers (who are forced to sell on price and don't care about reputation or customer loyalty because they cannot get it anyhow) there is a low-grade market too. But there are few takers for cheap goods for intelligent folks.

Ffor people like me (and experienced buyers in govt. and commerce), premium pricing is not a hindrance, if it comes with reliability and quality.

Volvo cars are these days made in China, but they are facing super hard time selling in the US. People know that these cars are not reliable (and they are made in China, not Sweden)- and they will avoid them like the plague. China suppliers have made this name for themselves.

Made in Germany/Japan means totally different things compared to Made in China when it comes to product quality and reliability.
 
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@Bilal9 wants to pay 10 Taka for a product and expects it to be equal in quality with 100 Taka goods. Very silly opinion!! You have to put more sugar to make the tea sweet. BD officials wanted a cheap DEMU sugared with under the table money, now the govt is complaining.

Divide the railway into many separate segments and sell some of them to private companies. Let them handle the issue of loss and profit. They will buy whatever they need at the right prices. This is how the railway is run in all the developed countries. Each of them will also build their own maintenance workshops and will bring in operating efficiency that will create profits.

The same goes for Bangladesh Airlines, privatize it. The govt should rather concentrate on systemizing the civil administration and let the business people run the businesses. Instead, they bite so many things at the same time which that they cannot swallow. The country is not developing and is going behind. Only the garments export are causing us to cover up so many govt inefficiencies.

I am happy that the garments sector has not been under the inefficient politicians and bureaucrats of the GoB. This is why it is shining.
 
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Well OK let's talk common sense.

I am buying a disposable item (maybe shaving cream or cookies). I will try cheaper brand (maybe walmart's or target's own dept. store brand) and if I don't like it no big deal. I am out maybe a couple of dollars. No regrets.

However if the railway plans to buy a locomotive (or I buy a cellphone) they are looking at a longer term purchase for at least a decade or more and they WILL care about payback and ROI. They will also look at after-sales support and maintenance contracts. If the Chinese supplier sells on price alone and does not live up to contractual obligations that is a serious matter. They will not be given repeat business. It is sad that most Chinese suppliers have trouble understanding this concept.

Blacklisting of Chinese suppliers has happened in Pakistan and now in Bangladesh with the DEMU fiasco- you can tell how serious this is when the PM of a country discussed this in a negative light.

Price is not the only factor when buying DURABLE GOODS. Price-to-quality ratio however is. What is also commonly called 'bang-for-the-buck' in the US.

That is why Japanese cellphones in the US (SONY) don't sell anymore because they are considered too pricey for features offered. People buy Korean cellphones or iPhones with a premium price (my last cell cost well over $1000). Will people buy Chinese cellphones? Maybe lower tier buyers will look at OPPO, Pocophone, Huawei etc. But mature buyers will not take a chance. They want dependability and functionality, not experimentation.

However some Japanese/Korean expensive TV brands and Microwaves are still doing fine in the US. They have a quality reputation built up over three decades and people will buy these 'durable goods' as opposed to disposable goods, even with a premium price. My TV's and Microwaves (both Japanese) are both over a decade old and going like champs (knock on wood). :-)

I will always buy Panasonic Microwaves and Samsung TVs. Samsung TVs are not the cheapest, but I will buy them at a premium over a cheapest brand like (say HAIER) because I like reliability and better picture quality which only comes with good R&D. A Samsung 4K 65 incher will cost around $1800 at Costco, I have seen HAIER 65" TV's at Walmart selling for $600. I will still buy the SAMSUNG.

In microwaves too, reliability is essential (the Microwave tube and the electronics both need to be heatproof and reliable). No one wants to face angry womenfolk relatives in their home when a Microwave fails during a guest-event. Those are important considerations.

My time is much more valuable than calling support and dealing with an unreliable Chinese manufacturer who will not honor maintenance contract and warranty. I'd rather buy a better, more reliable product and have peace of mind.

There is a saying in Bengali "Cheap items have three conditions". Better to spend a few bucks extra and not have any regrets.


For third tier product manufacturers (who are forced to sell on price and don't care about reputation or customer loyalty because they cannot get it anyhow) there is a low-grade market too. But there are few takers for cheap goods for intelligent folks.

Ffor people like me (and experienced buyers in govt. and commerce), premium pricing is not a hindrance, if it comes with reliability and quality.

Volvo cars are these days made in China, but they are facing super hard time selling in the US. People know that these cars are not reliable (and they are made in China, not Sweden)- and they will avoid them like the plague. China suppliers have made this name for themselves.

Made in Germany/Japan means totally different things compared to Made in China when it comes to product quality and reliability.
The reality is Chinese products are gaining more and more global markets so many once famous brands had long been squeezed out of the market, you can have your own opinion, but the market share and sales volume don't lie, I m not talking about you, I m talking the Chinese products in general.

7068f8a181a97078a7482d2ae36ea716.jpg
 
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The reality is Chinese products are gaining more and more global markets so many once famous brands had long been squeezed out of the market, you can have your own opinion, but the market share and sales volume don't lie, I m not talking about you, I m talking the Chinese products in general.

7068f8a181a97078a7482d2ae36ea716.jpg

Our experience with DEMO is not good . its not suitable for our environment . from the beginning passengers shown their dissatisfaction with DEMO train . moreover its earning less then its operational cost so the decision to not buy anymore DEMO is good decision . Govt. should consider other option from China Indonesia for Railway along with curving corruption .
 
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Our experience with DEMO is not good . its not suitable for our environment . from the beginning passengers shown their dissatisfaction with DEMO train . moreover its earning less then its operational cost so the decision to not buy anymore DEMO is good decision . Govt. should consider other option from China Indonesia for Railway along with curving corruption .
If they are not up to par, terminate the contract, try other suppiers, that makes perfect sense, but because of this train, demeaning all Chinese products is not a good solution.
 
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Well OK let's talk common sense.

I am buying a disposable item (maybe shaving cream or cookies). I will try cheaper brand (maybe walmart's or target's own dept. store brand) and if I don't like it no big deal. I am out maybe a couple of dollars. No regrets.

However if the railway plans to buy a locomotive (or I buy a cellphone) they are looking at a longer term purchase for at least a decade or more and they WILL care about payback and ROI. They will also look at after-sales support and maintenance contracts. If the Chinese supplier sells on price alone and does not live up to contractual obligations that is a serious matter. They will not be given repeat business. It is sad that most Chinese suppliers have trouble understanding this concept.

Blacklisting of Chinese suppliers has happened in Pakistan and now in Bangladesh with the DEMU fiasco- you can tell how serious this is when the PM of a country discussed this in a negative light.

Price is not the only factor when buying DURABLE GOODS. Price-to-quality ratio however is. What is also commonly called 'bang-for-the-buck' in the US.

That is why Japanese cellphones in the US (SONY) don't sell anymore because they are considered too pricey for features offered. People buy Korean cellphones or iPhones with a premium price (my last cell cost well over $1000). Will people buy Chinese cellphones? Maybe lower tier buyers will look at OPPO, Pocophone, Huawei etc. But mature buyers will not take a chance. They want dependability and functionality, not experimentation.

However some Japanese/Korean expensive TV brands and Microwaves are still doing fine in the US. They have a quality reputation built up over three decades and people will buy these 'durable goods' as opposed to disposable goods, even with a premium price. My TV's and Microwaves (both Japanese) are both over a decade old and going like champs (knock on wood). :-)

I will always buy Panasonic Microwaves and Samsung TVs. Samsung TVs are not the cheapest, but I will buy them at a premium over a cheapest brand like (say HAIER) because I like reliability and better picture quality which only comes with good R&D. A Samsung 4K 65 incher will cost around $1800 at Costco, I have seen HAIER 65" TV's at Walmart selling for $600. I will still buy the SAMSUNG.

In microwaves too, reliability is essential (the Microwave tube and the electronics both need to be heatproof and reliable). No one wants to face angry womenfolk relatives in their home when a Microwave fails during a guest-event. Those are important considerations.

My time is much more valuable than calling support and dealing with an unreliable Chinese manufacturer who will not honor maintenance contract and warranty. I'd rather buy a better, more reliable product and have peace of mind.

There is a saying in Bengali "Cheap items have three conditions". Better to spend a few bucks extra and not have any regrets.


For third tier product manufacturers (who are forced to sell on price and don't care about reputation or customer loyalty because they cannot get it anyhow) there is a low-grade market too. But there are few takers for cheap goods for intelligent folks.

Ffor people like me (and experienced buyers in govt. and commerce), premium pricing is not a hindrance, if it comes with reliability and quality.

Volvo cars are these days made in China, but they are facing super hard time selling in the US. People know that these cars are not reliable (and they are made in China, not Sweden)- and they will avoid them like the plague. China suppliers have made this name for themselves.

Made in Germany/Japan means totally different things compared to Made in China when it comes to product quality and reliability.

Says a citizen of certain country whose armed forces inventory got 80 percentage or more sourced from China
 
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