PM rejects proposal to buy more DEMU trains from China

[beijingwalker]

W Being in the US market, the lack of Chinese product reputation is more common. There is a phrase called 'Cheap Chinese' Americans sometimes generalize on.

We also make trains in USA, and Chinese exports trains to so many countries for so many years, Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas, actually some of your countries decades old trains were made in China too, if only BD has problems with those trains, there must be some other things going around, we can't say about other Chinese products, but for trains, no one now can make better trains than China.

Chinese train maker brings job opportunities to Chicago

Chinese-made trains for Sri Lanka roll off assembly line

 

[Beast]

We are generalizing here a lot. And some Chinese posters are outright being untruthful. Harshest places? Really??

China is the home of many companies who make this type of train locomotive equipment. No one can claim that every Chinese company makes great products. Being in the US market, the lack of Chinese product reputation is more common. There is a phrase called 'Cheap Chinese' Americans sometimes generalize on. Which is also wrong. But there are reasons why that phrase came about, Chinese quality is highly variable (some say unreliable).

But - Bangladeshi mechanics have maintained Canadian locomotives which are now 65~66 years old (see image below). Some Montreal EMD Locomotives supplied in the late 50s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Railway_Class_2000)are still running pulling long container consists. Why can't Bangladesh Railway maintain Chinese DEMU's? Unless Chinese build quality is crap to start with for those DEMU's supplied. Some Chinese suppliers don't care about quality reputation.

I am familiar with rolling stock in Bangladesh. Chinese rolling stock and motive power (locomotives) are not reputed to be the best quality-wise, this is honest observation. I am sorry but this is local impression.

Locomotive Quality from good to worse is like this,

German (Henschel) --> American/Canadian (EMD) --> Japanese (Mitsubishi, Hitachi) --> Korean (Hyundai) --> Indian (DLW/MLW) --> Chinese (DEMU units supplied in 2013 are the absolute worst)

When the PM of a country rejects products - she hardly lies. But, maybe another Chinese supplier may have a better product. The supplier needs to look at local needs and design a better product to increase their reputation.

Lol.. are you smoking some high glass? India has better reputation ranking than China? Check out your PC or smartphone u are using to access PDF. Its made in China. India can't even make a single full smartphone without import most component from China. I dare to bet if you ask any western countries who is willing to take a made in India vs made in China with same price. It will be China. China has worldwide recognise tech brand like Huawei, DJI, Lenevo and BYD and what India has? China export many UCAV to many countries that even surpass US volume and what has India tech exported that beats China?

Finally, you are comparing orange to apple. A diesel train vs a DEMU is not even a fair comparison.

Better buy it from Indonesia. Here is DMU train made for Philippine

New DMU Train for Pilippines PNR made in Indonesia by PT.INKA are being tested

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/995374/pnr-buys-seven-more-trains-worth-p2-37-b-from-indonesia

Yes, Indonesia train tech is so good that it buys China HSR. A HSR vs DEMU, I don't think I need to remind you which is more complicated to build.

 

[Bilal9]

Lol.. are you smoking some high glass? India has better reputation ranking than China? Check out your PC or smartphone u are using to access PDF. Its made in China. India can't even make a single full smartphone without import most component from China. I dare to bet if you ask any western countries who is willing to take a made in India vs made in China with same price. It will be China. China has worldwide recognise tech brand like Huawei, DJI, Lenevo and BYD and what India has? China export many UCAV to many countries that even surpass US volume and what has India tech exported that beats China?

Finally, you are comparing orange to apple. A diesel train vs a DEMU is not even a fair comparison.

We ARE talking about DEMU's too. Not HSR's, not Locomotives - but DEMU's.

You apparently know a few things about cellphones and not enough about DEMU's made in other countries. Touched a nerve I guess?

No one can make better DEMU's than China?? Can they even try?

Funny.

We have seen Indonesian DEMU's above.

Recently ICF in Chennai exported some DEMU's to Sri Lanka. Some Indian poster can post those images so you can get some idea. You have to realize Chinese products still have a ways to go to get sales in some countries.

 

[beijingwalker]

You have to realize Chinese products still have a ways to go to get sales in some countries.

Chinese products sell all around the world, which country sells more products than China? which country sells more trains than China？

 

[Bilal9]

We also make trains in USA, and Chinese exports trains to so many countries for so many years, Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas, actually some of your countries decades old trains were made in China too, if only BD has problems with those trains, there must be some other things going around, we can't say about other Chinese products, but for trains, no one now can make better trains than China.

Chinese train maker brings job opportunities to Chicago

Chinese-made trains for Sri Lanka roll off assembly line

Dude - give it a rest.

For price-to-quality ratio, Korean right now is best choice IMHO.

China is coming up, but not there yet. Speaking from personal experience.

Can we keep the discussion limited to DEMU's only - please?

 

[beijingwalker]

This is from 10 hours ago

This is from 2 days ago

Dude - give it a rest.

For price-to-quality ratio, Korean right now is best choice IMHO.

Any Korean trains run in your country? Korean products dominates the world market or Chinese products dominates the world market? Why US and EU don't start a trade war with Korea?

China, the United States, and Germany are the world's top three largest exporters of goods.
Exports By Country.
Rank Country Exports in US Dollars
Exports By Country
Rank Country Exports in US Dollars
1 China 1,990,000,000,000
2 United States 1,456,000,000,000
3 Germany 1,322,000,000,000
4 Japan 634,900,000,000
5 South Korea 511,800,000,000
6 France 507,000,000,000
7 Hong Kong 502,500,000,000
8 Netherlands 495,400,000,000
9 Italy 454,100,000,000
10 United Kingdom 407,300,000,000
11 Canada 393,500,000,000
12 Mexico 374,300,000,000
13 Singapore 361,600,000,000

Korea exports same amount of goods as Chinese Hong kong

 

[bluesky]

Scary, Chinese tech that bad or is it poor maintenance by the Bangladeshis?

Both could be true. In the case of BD the lines, trains, stations, and platforms all belong to the Govt of Bangladesh. It is a legacy of Pakistan period. So, no people work sincerely. The result is broken trains. Sarkar ka Maal, Dariya pe Daal. All other sectors controlled by the greedy bureaucrats face the similar fate, an early demise.

@Homo Sapiens, @TopCat

 

[Tanveer666]

If China can make HSR , does it mean China has no technology to make a DEMU?

Apples to orange comparison, the HSR are all electric, DEMUs by definition rely on diesel engines. Just because you can make quality HSR doesn't mean you can make quality diesel engines.
With that being said, I'm pretty sure there was some "behind the scene" deals with the manufacturer to "cut corners".

 

[The Ronin]

Scary, Chinese tech that bad or is it poor maintenance by the Bangladeshis?

What i heard in a report that these trains are not up for the passenger load here. That's just these corrupted mofos excuse. But your second guess is correct. Lack of spare parts, no workshop and trained personals to repair and maintain these train are the reasons now 11 out 20 set are out of operation. So BRW didn't any revenue but losses in this project. The biggest reason is BRW is one of most corrupted govt organization in BD. Even after spending so much money to develop it's infrastructures, BRW was unable to turn into a profitable organization because of corruption.

 

[Indos]

Yes, Indonesia train tech is so good that it buys China HSR. A HSR vs DEMU, I don't think I need to remind you which is more complicated to build.

China is a head of Indonesia in train manufacturing but Indonesia is catching up. We are currently making a new factory that has 4 time out put capacity. If it is finished in 2020 inshaAllah, Indonesia will be competing China train in world market harder than before inshaAllah.

INKA kicks off factory construction in Banyuwangi

• News Desk
  The Jakarta Post

Jakarta / Mon, April 1, 2019 / 05:37 pm

PT Inka sends 15 train cars to Bangladesh from Tanjung Perak Port in Surabaya on Jan. 21. (kompas.com/Achmad Faizal)

State-owned train manufacturing company PT Industri Kereta Api Indonesia (INKA) has kicked off the construction of Indonesia's largest train factory in Banyuwangi, East Java, whose products are to be exported to a number of countries.

The groundbreaking ceremony for the factory that is to be built on 83 hectares of land at a cost of Rp 1.6 trillion (US$112.41 million) was led by Banyuwangi Regent Abdullah Azwar Anas and the secretary to the State-Owned Enterprises Ministry, Imam Apriyanto Putro, on Sunday.

Imam said the factory would produce trains with the latest technology as a result of collaboration between INKA and the Stadler Rail Group, a world-renowned Swiss company that makes railway rolling stock.

“We decide to develop the factory in Banyuwangi because the regency has a port. It will lower the costs,” he said, adding that Banyuwangi was strongly committed to supporting the investment.

The new factory is expected to produce four train cars per day, four times the capacity of INKA’s existing factory in Madiun, which is also in East Java.

Meanwhile, PT INKA president director Budi Noviantoro added that INKA has received many orders, including for 250 train cars from Bangladesh worth $100 million.

INKA had also exported its products to the Philippines, he said, adding that it planned to expand into the Taiwanese, Australian and African markets.

“We hope that the construction of the Banyuwangi factory could be completed quickly. Our target is to start production in 2020,” Budi added as quoted by kontan.co.id.

INKA plans to recruit 2,000 workers, some of whom would participate in an internship program in Switzerland. INKA, in cooperation with the local government, plans to establish an open training program in state-run Banyuwangi Polytechnics. (bbn)

 

[bluesky]

That's how China maintains its trains, the largest fleet in the world, you can't just make the train run without proper maintanence, Chinese trains run through the harshest places on this planet without any problems.

Do not worry. Bangladesh govt people do not know anything about maintenance works. I hope this govt will send the DEMU trains back to China for maintenance like it always does with Mig-29 to Ukraine. After all, BD people are born aristocrats. They should not dirt/black their hands by doing maintenance works by themselves.

The trains will lose their functionality even if they are brought from the Moon by the Americans for use by BD.

 

[Nike]

Do not worry. Bangladesh govt people do not know anything about maintenance works. I hope this govt will send the DEMU trains back to China for maintenance like it always does with Mig-29 to Ukraine. After all, BD people are born aristocrats. They should not dirt/black their hands by doing maintenance works by themselves.

The trains will lose their functionality even if they are brought from the Moon by the Americans for use by BD.

Chinese side cant see the heavy usage of Bd trains including heavy cargo on the rooftop of coaches. Not to mention they failed to provide on the site heavy maintenance units and repairing depo for the more complicated units DEMU when Bangladesh railway only providing maintenance depo for archaic type of Coach and train

 

[Bilal9]

If China can make HSR , does it mean China has no technology to make a DEMU? It just like saying , you can make a J-20 fifth gen fighter jet but do not have the quality or tech to make a mig-21. There is no logic.

Let me show u the poor state of Bangladesh.

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/bangladesh-seeks-second-hand-frigates-china/

Bangladesh is so poor that it even needs to import our near discard or second rated warship. Same as your DEMU case. Does it show case the best of China technology? Definitely no. China cater to plenty class of customers from cheap to rich. All depend on your budget. In this case, the poor can't complaint about quality. China can make quality DEMU but fact is you cannot afford it. If no, why need to buy Ming 035B sub and this near retired Chinese warship? If your Bangladesh navy can afford an AB class destroyer , I will eat back my words.

I reported your post for diverting the topic. You are clearly trolling, bringing in Bangladesh poverty subject which is irrelevant.

Yes we use and have used Hyundai locomotives for the last three decades. We may order DEMU's from them too (or any other country). No country is beholden to China for ordering equipment from it. Choice of equipment is based on quality, merit, performance and appropriate technology for the application. No boasting of HSR technology is a guarantee for selling equipment. Yes poor can complain about quality because they are paying for equipment (as long it is not donation). Bangladesh may be corrupt (and poor) but that doesn't mean our only choice is buying equipment from China.

You are skirting pretty close to getting an ignore from me.

What i heard in a report that these trains are not up for the passenger load here. That's just these corrupted mofos excuse. But your second guess is correct. Lack of spare parts, no workshop and trained personals to repair and maintain these train are the reasons now 11 out 20 set are out of operation. So BRW didn't any revenue but losses in this project. The biggest reason is BRW is one of most corrupted govt organization in BD. Even after spending so much money to develop it's infrastructures, BRW was unable to turn into a profitable organization because of corruption.

We are too quick to blame our own kind.

The DEMU episode has little to do with corruption. Everyone is diverting the issue. There are tons of other types of equipment (including Korean and Indian locos) that are working just fine in BR on far more frequent and rigorous schedules within the railway being maintained on regular basis.

Like I posted, some Canadian locos are 66 years old and still running everyday. Blaming BR corruption or the maintenance is pointless. This may be part of the reason, but doesn't explain why other types of BR equipment are running perfectly, with the singular exception of Chinese DEMU's. No one here has anything against China as a supplier of equipment, it is a case-by-case topic.

There are reportedly inherent engine quality issues with these Chinese DEMU's, breakdowns were too frequent, Aircon on some units never worked. Either BR doesn't care (wants to replace them), or the Chinese don't want to honor maintenance contracts, who knows? If the Chinese want repeat business, they have to own up to their contracts and stand behind their equipment.

But that is not what the Chinese suppliers do, do they? It is a worldwide phenomenon of one-time-sale. We all know. Even people in the US know.

Any DEMU sets sold to Bangladesh by any country will need to pass muster for local operations as these are used for commuter rail operations which is heavy duty use. Successful operations will be rewarded with repeat business. Just how it is in the rest of the world.

 

[beijingwalker]

I reported your post for diverting the topic. You are clearly trolling, bringing in Bangladesh poverty subject which is irrelevant.

Yes we use and have used Hyundai locomotives for the last three decades. We may order DEMU's from them too (or any other country). No country is beholden to China for ordering equipment from it. Choice of equipment is based on quality, merit, performance and appropriate technology for the application. No boasting of HSR technology is a guarantee for selling equipment. Yes poor can complain about quality because they are paying for equipment (as long it is not donation). Bangladesh may be corrupt (and poor) but that doesn't mean our only choice is buying equipment from China.

You are skirting pretty close to getting an ignore from me.

Many of the old trains running in BD were also made in China, Chinese travelers saw Chinese made trains in BD which were made in the 1970's and 1980's, they are still running. Newer model trains actually need more maintenance, because they are more complex involving more recent technologies in them, you have an a hundred year old 18th century train still operational doesn't mean it's a better train than a intensive maintenance needed bullet train now.

 

[Bilal9]

China is a head of Indonesia in train manufacturing but Indonesia is catching up. We are currently making a new factory that has 4 time out put capacity. If it is finished in 2020 inshaAllah, Indonesia will be competing China train in world market harder than before inshaAllah.

INKA kicks off factory construction in Banyuwangi

• News Desk
  The Jakarta Post

Jakarta / Mon, April 1, 2019 / 05:37 pm

PT Inka sends 15 train cars to Bangladesh from Tanjung Perak Port in Surabaya on Jan. 21. (kompas.com/Achmad Faizal)

State-owned train manufacturing company PT Industri Kereta Api Indonesia (INKA) has kicked off the construction of Indonesia's largest train factory in Banyuwangi, East Java, whose products are to be exported to a number of countries.

The groundbreaking ceremony for the factory that is to be built on 83 hectares of land at a cost of Rp 1.6 trillion (US$112.41 million) was led by Banyuwangi Regent Abdullah Azwar Anas and the secretary to the State-Owned Enterprises Ministry, Imam Apriyanto Putro, on Sunday.

Imam said the factory would produce trains with the latest technology as a result of collaboration between INKA and the Stadler Rail Group, a world-renowned Swiss company that makes railway rolling stock.

“We decide to develop the factory in Banyuwangi because the regency has a port. It will lower the costs,” he said, adding that Banyuwangi was strongly committed to supporting the investment.

The new factory is expected to produce four train cars per day, four times the capacity of INKA’s existing factory in Madiun, which is also in East Java.

Meanwhile, PT INKA president director Budi Noviantoro added that INKA has received many orders, including for 250 train cars from Bangladesh worth $100 million.

INKA had also exported its products to the Philippines, he said, adding that it planned to expand into the Taiwanese, Australian and African markets.

“We hope that the construction of the Banyuwangi factory could be completed quickly. Our target is to start production in 2020,” Budi added as quoted by kontan.co.id.

INKA plans to recruit 2,000 workers, some of whom would participate in an internship program in Switzerland. INKA, in cooperation with the local government, plans to establish an open training program in state-run Banyuwangi Polytechnics. (bbn)

Masha-Allah congratulations brother. We look forward to further business collaboration with Indonesia.