PM Hasina plans to build aircraft in the country

[El Sidd]

Bangladesh is a beacon of hope and progress in LDC world.

 

[Michael Corleone]

On a more serious note - how tough could making aircraft be? Pakistanis started by assembling SAAB trainers (Mushshaque?). Indians started by assembling US built trainers, ag-sprayers and general aviation aircraft in the late forties (Pushpak etc.).

For Bangladesh it has never been a priority - even for overhauls and D-checks. I guess it now is.

Just for comparison - people in the US and Europe build these things in their garages out of hobby pleasure. That's the fastest ultralight, a VL3.

For an educated, skilled society with easy access to industrial tools... quite easy... for a country like Bangladesh with uneducated egotistic maniacs and virtually very limited industrial access... not so much.

 

[EasyNow]

You just do not know the correct definition of the internet use. BD people use mostly the mobile internet phones and not the WiMax or ISP+PSTN in their houses or offices with the help of computers. These two together is only 5.433 million in BD. The number of mobile internet users are not counted in other countries. But, BD brats like you love to inflate the figure.

Please learn the basics before you again talk big. It only shows your ignorance. When the internet user throughout the world is about 40% of the population, you guys are jumping with a false data of 50% use. Read below to broaden your knowledge.

http://www.internetlivestats.com/internet-users/
Internet Users
3,979,503,612
Internet users in the world

Around 40% of the world population has an internet connection today. In 1995, it was less than 1%.

You're wrong again but you wont change your view.

All over the world mobile internet access is the majority now, you criticise BD for it but can't see this in Japan?

"With close to 59 percent of the Japanese population accessing internet through mobile phone in 2016, forecasts estimate this figure will grow to 61.6 percent in 2021"

https://www.statista.com/topics/2361/internet-usage-in-japan/


You go round in circles to criticize BD, what is it that you really want to say? That BD is rubbish? You hate BD ? Just say it honestly and don't waste everyone's time trying to to act like it's constructive criticism.

For an educated, skilled society with easy access to industrial tools... quite easy... for a country like Bangladesh with uneducated egotistic maniacs and virtually very limited industrial access... not so much.

Bro I think we both know that if Pakistan and India can do something, we can too - were not that far apart. On the balance of probability, BD will assemble planes in our lifetime.

Tories had no intention to cut immigation lol
They had full control over non-EU citizens coming into the country after 2010 and those were more numerous than EU citizens. All politicians lie, whether they are in the developed or developing world.

Up to you who you engage with but the poster that you are replying to is now on a 4-week ignore from me for low quality posting. First it was 2 weeks, now 4 weeks and it will double till he either improves the quality of his posts or tries not to engage me anymore.

I know bro, he is getting repetitive and has started making really pointless issues. But I don't like to leave stupid statements uncorrected -especially when it's supposedly from a rational fellow Bdeshi

 

[Nike]

Well in Asia is only handfull countries ever successful in designing and building their own planes

First is Japan, second is China, then came India, Indonesia, Pakistan and South Korea. All of them had build planes from the very basic infrastructure like Academy, Universities, Laboratory, Workshops, Factory for planes parts and all of them is willing to incure huge amount of losses financially for research and maintaining aerospace industries. Well, several decade ago Thailand, Malaysia and Philippine is preparing to built their own aerospace industries, but they are postpone the plan some even cancelled them outright because financial problem

I doubt BD will be capable to endure such ventures when i see such track record of Bd government in pursuing long term project

 

[Bilal9]

For an educated, skilled society with easy access to industrial tools... quite easy... for a country like Bangladesh with uneducated egotistic maniacs and virtually very limited industrial access... not so much.

'Access to industrial tools' and 'uneducated' situation will both change quicker than we believe, that is my understanding.

Ten years ago I paid some sixty dollars for a WISS aerospace grade industrial snips in the US. Last year I bought a Chinese pair for twenty which is roughly equivalent. Mind you these are industrial grade tools. Access to tools of all types has changed dramatically because of Chinese production which is one third to one fifth the cost. Worldwide - there are different sources for equipment. Industrial tools are available everywhere in the world (even Bangladesh). Larger industrial toolmakers have dealers in Bangladesh, there is no dearth of availability if money is available. Bostitch, Metabo, Hilti, Dewalt, B&D, Makita, Hitachi - you name it, all have dealers locally. Most of these brands carry aerospace tools like hand riveters, pop riveters, heavy duty snips.

If you are talking about sheet metal - CNC operated sheet metal tools of all kinds are available from Chinese suppliers - or if you are talking really large scale aerospace stuff, Milacron or German brands can supply them.

CFRP or GFRP assemblies are labor intensive and those can be a focus too. Autoclaves (Fiberglass curing ovens) are expensive but not for smaller items. We don't need an autoclave sized for a whole wing. Things can start small and scale up.

There is no dearth of tools if you have money to buy.

What we have an issue of however is training. Govt. has to create that training climate as well as facilities to train people in aerospace jobs. It has to get training experts from overseas like retired aerospace personnel for cheap or actual trainers for big money. US Govt. has programs to train overseas personnel in aerospace by providing retired aerospace employees from the US.

What is also needed in Bangladesh is creation of a proper profitable business climate and ready overseas customers for these products which has to come from local customers initially such as assembling our own two-place air-force trainers as well as developing D-check and overhaul facilities in remote areas like North Bengal. Some D-check activity already takes place locally in Dhaka (Biman as well as BAC). Later international business can be scouted and gained. But we have to go after this business as a focused thrust sector.

When the local skill-base develops and matures (apprenticeship and training will make it happen) then everything else will fall into place.

You go round in circles to criticize BD, what is it that you really want to say? That BD is rubbish? You hate BD ? Just say it honestly and don't waste everyone's time trying to to act like it's constructive criticism.

Bingo. You caught on to his main drift and prime MO in this forum. Dissing Bangladesh while pretending to be a Bangladeshi. Coming from jealousy - is all I can fathom.

I know bro, he is getting repetitive and has started making really pointless issues. But I don't like to leave stupid statements uncorrected -especially when it's supposedly from a rational fellow Bdeshi

Rational -> "Supposed" is a good description.

Fellow Bangladeshi -> You guys remember the time he couldn't answer my questions immediately in Bengali? That cast some serious doubt as to his Bangladeshi origin. Nowadays he gets belated help from Kolkata dadas (all of his late latif comments are in Kolkata slang Bengali). I have doubted his Bangladeshi origins from day one, and I'm still not convinced. I hate shameless fake people and it is sad most of these fake accounts happen to be from India, a 'supposed friend' of Bangladesh.

Well in Asia is only handfull countries ever successful in designing and building their own planes

First is Japan, second is China, then came India, Indonesia, Pakistan and South Korea. All of them had build planes from the very basic infrastructure like Academy, Universities, Laboratory, Workshops, Factory for planes parts and all of them is willing to incure huge amount of losses financially for research and maintaining aerospace industries. Well, several decade ago Thailand, Malaysia and Philippine is preparing to built their own aerospace industries, but they are postpone the plan some even cancelled them outright because financial problem

I doubt BD will be capable to endure such ventures when i see such track record of Bd government in pursuing long term project

Japanese, South Korean and Chinese aerospace is a success no matter what anyone says. I could argue the same about Pakistan and India. The latter in the private sector too, mooted by the Tatas and Mahindra.

For example - Mahindra Aerospace is assembling a 10-seater utility aircraft (licensed Airvan design from Australia) which has a large market in India. There are plenty of designs around the world Bangladesh can use to assemble like this.

Mahindra also has an aerostructures division for making things like cowlings, doors, engine covers and other smaller aerospace assemblies on contract for larger aircraft programs from Boeing and Airbus, among others.

Here is their aerospace buisness video.

Here is one worker doing basic pop-rivet assembly of a structural aircraft panel,

Indonesia (Dr. B.J. Habibie) developed PT Nusantara when it could not even assemble a Motorcycle. This is from Dr. Habibie's own mouth. He set up Nusantara (later called PT Nurtanio (Dirgantara?), now called Indonesia Aerospace) as a pet project because he could 'utilize' Indonesia's public money with Suharto's help and knew all the suppliers.

Bangladesh labor cost is half or one-third that of Indonesia. You can doubt us all you want but facts are facts and they are ground reality.

In Bangladesh most of the aerospace will be smaller scale activity at first, instead of a massive hundred million dollar project. We will use low cost labor as a USP. General Aviation (GA) type aircraft assembly will be the mantra, not R&D or design at first. Baby steps. We can collaborate with GA industry globally (as opposed to airliners business) in the EU and the US for their components assembly.

Financial loss is incurred by any govt. when govt. sets up factories with hundreds of millions of dollars with no customer in sight - just so a few top govt. functionaries can skim percentages off of the project. I don't know if this is what happened in Suharto and Dr. Habibie's case. It would seem logical that top honchos in power don't really care about customers if they get the industrial machinery supplier (such as Cincinnati Milacron) to forward their 'twenty percent or so' cut to a Swiss Bank. So what if the factory sits idle for twenty years (which it did) and which is sad.

Also - the gamble should have worked out in Indonesia if the Spanish (CASA) had not pulled the rug right under of Nusantara in the form of licensing. CASA wanted to keep manufacturing ongoing in Spain and saw Indonesian aerospace manufacturing as a threat to their industry and GDP. Only now has Indonesia Aerospace started assembling its latest utility aircraft N219 (a twin otter replacement) - of which Bangladesh is a potential customer.

 

[Nike]

'Access to industrial tools' and 'uneducated' situation will both change quicker than we believe, that is my understanding.

Ten years ago I paid some sixty dollars for a WISS aerospace grade industrial snips in the US. Last year I bought a Chinese pair for twenty which is roughly equivalent. Mind you these are industrial grade tools. Access to tools of all types has changed dramatically because of Chinese production which is one third to one fifth the cost. Worldwide - there are different sources for equipment. Industrial tools are available everywhere in the world (even Bangladesh). Larger industrial toolmakers have dealers in Bangladesh, there is no dearth of availability if money is available. Bostitch, Metabo, Hilti, Dewalt, B&D, Makita, Hitachi - you name it, all have dealers locally. Most of these brands carry aerospace tools like hand riveters, pop riveters, heavy duty snips.

If you are talking about sheet metal - CNC operated sheet metal tools of all kinds are available from Chinese suppliers - or if you are talking really large scale aerospace stuff, Milacron or German brands can supply them.

CFRP or GFRP assemblies are labor intensive and those can be a focus too. Autoclaves (Fiberglass curing ovens) are expensive but not for smaller items. We don't need an autoclave sized for a whole wing. Things can start small and scale up.

There is no dearth of tools if you have money to buy.

What we have an issue of however is training. Govt. has to create that training climate as well as facilities to train people in aerospace jobs. It has to get training experts from overseas like retired aerospace personnel for cheap or actual trainers for big money. US Govt. has programs to train overseas personnel in aerospace by providing retired aerospace employees from the US.

What is also needed in Bangladesh is creation of a proper profitable business climate and ready overseas customers for these products which has to come from local customers initially such as assembling our own two-place air-force trainers as well as developing D-check and overhaul facilities in remote areas like North Bengal. Some D-check activity already takes place locally in Dhaka (Biman as well as BAC). Later international business can be scouted and gained. But we have to go after this business as a focused thrust sector.

When the local skill-base develops and matures (apprenticeship and training will make it happen) then everything else will fall into place.



Bingo. You caught on to his main drift and prime MO in this forum. Dissing Bangladesh while pretending to be a Bangladeshi. Coming from jealousy - is all I can fathom.



Rational -> "Supposed" is a good description.

Fellow Bangladeshi -> You guys remember the time he couldn't answer my questions immediately in Bengali? That cast some serious doubt as to his Bangladeshi origin. Nowadays he gets belated help from Kolkata dadas (all of his late latif comments are in Kolkata slang Bengali). I have doubted his Bangladeshi origins from day one, and I'm still not convinced. I hate shameless fake people and it is sad most of these fake accounts happen to be from India, a 'supposed friend' of Bangladesh.



Japanese, South Korean and Chinese aerospace is a success no matter what anyone says. I could argue the same about Pakistan and India. The latter in the private sector too, mooted by the Tatas and Mahindra.

For example - Mahindra Aerospace is assembling a 10-seater utility aircraft (licensed Airvan design from Australia) which has a large market in India. There are plenty of designs around the world Bangladesh can use to assemble like this.

Mahindra also has an aerostructures division for making things like cowlings, doors, engine covers and other smaller aerospace assemblies on contract for larger aircraft programs from Boeing and Airbus, among others.

Here is their aerospace buisness video.

Here is one worker doing basic pop-rivet assembly of a structural aircraft panel,

Indonesia (Dr. B.J. Habibie) developed PT Nusantara when it could not even assemble a Motorcycle. This is from Dr. Habibie's own mouth. He set up Nusantara (later called PT Nurtanio (Dirgantara?), now called Indonesia Aerospace) as a pet project because he could 'utilize' Indonesia's public money with Suharto's help and knew all the suppliers.

Bangladesh labor cost is half or one-third that of Indonesia. You can doubt us all you want but facts are facts and they are ground reality.

In Bangladesh most of the aerospace will be smaller scale activity at first, instead of a massive hundred million dollar project. We will use low cost labor as a USP. General Aviation (GA) type aircraft assembly will be the mantra, not R&D or design at first. Baby steps. We can collaborate with GA industry globally (as opposed to airliners business) in the EU and the US for their components assembly.

Financial loss is incurred by any govt. when govt. sets up factories with hundreds of millions of dollars with no customer in sight - just so a few top govt. functionaries can skim percentages off of the project. I don't know if this is what happened in Suharto and Dr. Habibie's case. It would seem logical that top honchos in power don't really care about customers if they get the industrial machinery supplier (such as Cincinnati Milacron) to forward their 'twenty percent or so' cut to a Swiss Bank. So what if the factory sits idle for twenty years (which it did) and which is sad.

Also - the gamble should have worked out in Indonesia if the Spanish (CASA) had not pulled the rug right under of Nusantara in the form of licensing. CASA wanted to keep manufacturing ongoing in Spain and saw Indonesian aerospace manufacturing as a threat to their industry and GDP. Only now has Indonesia Aerospace started assembling its latest utility aircraft N219 (a twin otter replacement) - of which Bangladesh is a potential customer.

Hell yeah Netherland got Foker aerospace industries facilities set up in Bandung in 1928, and Republic had setting up aircraft assembly facilities in Bandung, Jogjakarta and Surabaya for the time being at Military Airbase like Juanda or Maguwo since 1948. Indonesia IPTN and CASSA back then got mutual understanding about market share and License production rights, Indonesia got Aspac area, EADS/CASSA got the rest. Indonesia right now is sole supplier and producent of CN 212 and CN 235 worldwide as part of sharing commitments back then when joint research and development starting in 1978, and right now starting sharing production of CN 295 with limited market at first.

And we had assembly motorcycle and car since Dutch era btw, and i never recall Habibie had said such statement elsewhere. What is true is when Indonesia is still being dirts and poor we had placed Aerospace industries at utmost importance. Well what hold BD to built Aircraft in First place? As you can see from pics below, Indonesia engineer back then only using canvas, wooden frame and car engines to build basic training Aircraft. All of them is cheap resources and exist everywhere in BD workshop. But as like i said without commitments all is naugh, and right now Indonesia Aerospace is capable off building complex Aircraft like a Maritime Patrol Aircraft (pics above) and bd gov and people until now doesnt have such commitments for long terms project.

You can twist Bd facts all you want but not Indonesia history in front of me.

Well Bd got cheaper workforce is a fact, but are BD workforce capable to assembly and produce Aircraft is not a fact for the time being.

 

[UKBengali]

Well in Asia is only handfull countries ever successful in designing and building their own planes

First is Japan, second is China, then came India, Indonesia, Pakistan and South Korea. All of them had build planes from the very basic infrastructure like Academy, Universities, Laboratory, Workshops, Factory for planes parts and all of them is willing to incure huge amount of losses financially for research and maintaining aerospace industries. Well, several decade ago Thailand, Malaysia and Philippine is preparing to built their own aerospace industries, but they are postpone the plan some even cancelled them outright because financial problem

I doubt BD will be capable to endure such ventures when i see such track record of Bd government in pursuing long term project

Dude do you have any understanding of what is happening in BD?

BD had two problems in the past and they were a lack of money and rotating governments every 5 years under the BNP-AL system.
AL has been in power for nearly 10 years and will almost certainly be in power for at lest another 5 years.
Because BD is an almost wholly ethnic Bengali state it is able to develop like Korea and China - you can see this as it has the fastest 100+ million pop economy in the world.
BD's best times are now and in the future and an unitary country of 160 million can do anything given enough time.

 

[Śakra]

@Nilgiri I am sure Walton Aerospace division will play an important partin this.

 

[Nike]

Dude do you have any understanding of what is happening in BD?

BD had two problems in the past and they were a lack of money and rotating governments every 5 years under the BNP-AL system.
AL has been in power for nearly 10 years and will almost certainly be in power for at lest another 5 years.
Because BD is an almost wholly ethnic Bengali state it is able to develop like Korea and China - you can see this as it has the fastest 100+ million pop economy in the world.
BD's best times are now and in the future and an unitary country of 160 million can do anything given enough time.

Well what it is clear is, your gov. doesnt have a clear goals in this Aerospace industries endeavor. Talking is easy, but get to walk the commitments on long run is not. Until now there is not comprehensive idea about how Bd will build this Aerospace industries, there is not concrete plan. All i can i see is a rant to rouse people for her before election is being held

Take case of Indonesia or South Korea as examples, they following some clear pattern on how to pursue this endeavor. Indonesia is clear to taking routes of building small and medium class passanger and transport utility Aircraft and small medium class helicopter through license like Bell 412 or Cougar.

South Korea build their preferance around fighter class aircraft and utility helicopter. The resources is put here and there clearly.

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

@Nilgiri I am sure Walton Aerospace division will play an important partin this.

Hey suckra, you're yet to give me the names of NGO workers who got gang raped by your brothers...

 

[Black_cats]

Well what it is clear is, your gov. doesnt have a clear goals in this Aerospace industries endeavor. Talking is easy, but get to walk the commitments on long run is not. Until now there is not comprehensive idea about how Bd will build this Aerospace industries, there is not concrete plan. All i can i see is a rant to rouse people for her before election is being held

Take case of Indonesia or South Korea as examples, they following some clear pattern on how to pursue this endeavor. Indonesia is clear to taking routes of building small and medium class passanger and transport utility Aircraft and small medium class helicopter through license like Bell 412 or Cougar.

South Korea build their preferance around fighter class aircraft and utility helicopter. The resources is put here and there clearly.

Goal has been outlined here. Initially to repair and overhauling aircraft. Gradually move towards manufacturing helicopter and plane afterwards. Ukraine also opening a repair center for Mi-17 and Mi-18 in Bangladesh.

 

[Bilal9]

Hell yeah Netherland got Foker aerospace industries facilities set up in Bandung in 1928, and Republic had setting up aircraft assembly facilities in Bandung, Jogjakarta and Surabaya for the time being at Military Airbase like Juanda or Maguwo since 1948. Indonesia IPTN and CASSA back then got mutual understanding about market share and License production rights, Indonesia got Aspac area, EADS/CASSA got the rest. Indonesia right now is sole supplier and producent of CN 212 and CN 235 worldwide as part of sharing commitments back then when joint research and development starting in 1978, and right now starting sharing production of CN 295 with limited market at first.

View attachment 488858 View attachment 488859
View attachment 488866 View attachment 488867
And we had assembly motorcycle and car since Dutch era btw, and i never recall Habibie had said such statement elsewhere. What is true is when Indonesia is still being dirts and poor we had placed Aerospace industries at utmost importance. Well what hold BD to built Aircraft in First place? As you can see from pics below, Indonesia engineer back then only using canvas, wooden frame and car engines to build basic training Aircraft. All of them is cheap resources and exist everywhere in BD workshop. But as like i said without commitments all is naugh, and right now Indonesia Aerospace is capable off building complex Aircraft like a Maritime Patrol Aircraft (pics above) and bd gov and people until now doesnt have such commitments for long terms project.


View attachment 488862 View attachment 488863 View attachment 488864

You can twist Bd facts all you want but not Indonesia history in front of me.

Well Bd got cheaper workforce is a fact, but are BD workforce capable to assembly and produce Aircraft is not a fact for the time being.

No one buys CN-235 because it is a shining piece of technology. They buy it because it is cheap (a little north of 6 million a copy without the expensive MP electronics).

How many has been sold? More than a few a year? I expected far more from a country like Indonesia.

Anyways we are getting off the subject of this thread. Let's not go into OT subject.

 

[Jlaw]

@Nilgiri has a very bad habit of writing long and clueless, sometimes out of context. I request him to make his writing precise for people to understand the contents.

He should be promoted to professional in PDF

 

[UKBengali]

No one buys CN-235 because it is a shining piece of technology. They buy it because it is cheap (a little north of 6 million a copy without the expensive MP electronics).

How many has been sold? More than a few a year? I expected far more from a country like Indonesia.

Anyways we are getting off the subject of this thread. Let's not go into OT subject.

Last point to add is that Indonesian economy is pretty much dead with GDP growth at 5% when at only 12,000 US dollars PPP. I expect that multi-ethnic hotchpotch to slowly drift downwards to 3-4% growth average and become like another Brazil.

It is not a patch on Malaysia at 30,000 US dollars at PPP with growth of 6% a year. Now that is a Muslim country that BD needs to emulate.

 

[Bilal9]

Bangladesh is a beacon of hope and progress in LDC world.

LDC not for long...