PLA Navy J-35 stealth carrier borne fighter made its maiden flight this morning in Shenyang.

[Sage]

You all have gone blind ...look closely...this is not China...this all happened near the coast of Mumbai ...Indians did the breakthrough ...they are the only on who could do so ...

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes I also think some roles will be undertaken by UAV, like recon, ASW or tanker like you have mentioned. That's one distinctive benefit brought by EMALS i.e. flexibility to catapult a wide range of take-off-weights, a capability that STOBARs (CV-16, 17) doesn't possess. PLAAF is obviosuly far ahead in fielding UAVs, what PLAN does is yet to be seen.

Exactly, that's why I think one design criteria of J-XY must be ability to play similar role as F-35 play in NIIF-CA, cos PLAN might have developed similar doctrine. J-15D should appear some time down the road.

What will be interesting to see is if all these technologies being developed get applied to the Type 075 LHD and developed into the “Type 076” VTOL carrier. Loyal wingman drones maybe decisive in allowing China to field in enough numbers to have a significant force at the time of these kids of engagements.

This could also be what Turkey is considering, especially after being excluded from the F-35 Program.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

The code name for Export Variant is FC-31.

J-35 for Navy
J-21 for Air Force

FC-31 is the export version of J-31, not J-35.

 

[Shotgunner51]

What will be interesting to see is if all these technologies being developed get applied to the Type 075 LHD and developed into the “Type 076” VTOL carrier. Loyal wingman drones maybe decisive in allowing China to field in enough numbers to have a significant force at the time of these kids of engagements.

This could also be what Turkey is considering, especially after being excluded from the F-35 Program.

I personally is a non-believer of VTOL as least not in this gen of tech of fighting gravity, the inventor (of Yak-141) must have discontinued the program for some good reason, even nowadays effective payload (fuel + ammunition) of F-35B in VTOL mode is very limited. While STOVL is practical, its high operating costs could be an issue. I still believe in catapult, with EMALS tech its seems LHD/LHA can for the first time in history benefit from such take-off method which used to be exclusive for larger ships, and larger jets.

Yes, I think perhaps other navies may apply EMALS to construct light or multi-purpose CVs. However in PLAN's case, given the scale it's likely to have dedicated assets for different purposes, i.e. traditional CVs for sea-air control, LHD/LHA for amphibious warfare. In 076 "mini CATOBAR" concept, the aviation wing will be comprised of helos + small drones, operated with smaller EMALS, perhaps a small AR. In an amphibious warfare setting, 076 can deliver smaller drones for recon, CAS covering ground troops, and some extent of BAI, while air superiority, SEAD or deep strikes and such "heavy" duties would be executed from other ships in task fleet say traditional CVs.

 

[Daniel808]

FC-31 is the export version of J-31, not J-35.

There is No J-31.

There is only FC-31, then from there getting Developed further to be Navy version as J-35 & Air Force version as J-21

 

[Daniel808]

I personally is a non-believer of VTOL as least not in this gen of tech of fighting gravity, the inventor (of Yak-141) must have discontinued the program for some good reason, even nowadays effective payload (fuel + ammunition) of F-35B in VTOL mode is very limited. While STOVL is practical, its high operating costs could be an issue. I still believe in catapult, with EMALS tech its seems LHD/LHA can for the first time in history benefit from such take-off method which used to be exclusive for larger ships, and larger jets.

Yes, I think perhaps other navies may apply EMALS to construct light or multi-purpose CVs. However in PLAN's case, given the scale it's likely to have dedicated assets for different purposes, i.e. traditional CVs for sea-air control, LHD/LHA for amphibious warfare. In 076 "mini CATOBAR" concept, the aviation wing will be comprised of helos + small drones, operated with smaller EMALS, perhaps a small AR. In an amphibious warfare setting, 076 can deliver smaller drones for recon, CAS covering ground troops, and some extent of BAI, while air superiority, SEAD or deep strikes and such "heavy" duties would be executed from other ships in task fleet say traditional CVs.

Yes indeed, I'm agree with you bro.

Developing VTOL Fighter would be very Costly & the maintenance cost also very High. The budget can go to more important projects, like Hypersonic Space Vehicle and many others.


Regarding Type 076 LHA/Medium CV, with EMALS Catapult System. They can launch not only small drone, but bigger size drone like Loyal Wingman (Dark Sword An-jian) units & Bomber UCAV.

Also they can hold & launch 1 Squadron of J-35 for sure (12-16 units) with EMALS onboard.


The purpose of China to Develop Type 076 LHA/Medium CV equipped with EMALS.
Is to Maintain the Power Presence & Guard the Sea Lines across that region, like Southern Atlantic, Eastern Indian Ocean & Malacca strait. But with Cost Efficiency in the mind.

Meanwhile the Super Carrier Battle Group (CVBG) would guard the more crucial & Hot zone Area like Northern Indian Ocean, South China Sea & Western Pacific.

1 Battle Group of Type 076 LHA/Medium CV equipped with Loyal Wingman Drone & Bomber UCAV with 1 Squadron of J-35 as backup.
Together with 1 Type 075 ARG (Amphibious Ready Group) is much more than enough to take care any Small/Medium country across the world

 

[Shotgunner51]

Yes indeed, I'm agree with you bro.

Developing VTOL Fighter would be very Costly & the maintenance cost also very High. The budget can go to more important projects, like Hypersonic Space Vehicle and many others.


Regarding Type 076 LHA/Medium CV, with EMALS Catapult System. They can launch not only small drone, but bigger size drone like Loyal Wingman (Dark Sword An-jian) units & Bomber UCAV.

Also they can hold & launch 1 Squadron of J-35 for sure (12-16 units) with EMALS onboard.


The purpose of China to Develop Type 076 LHA/Medium CV equipped with EMALS.
Is to Maintain the Power Presence & Guard the Sea Lines across that region, like Southern Atlantic, Eastern Indian Ocean & Malacca strait. But with Cost Efficiency in the mind.

Meanwhile the Super Carrier Battle Group (CVBG) would guard the more crucial & Hot zone Area like Northern Indian Ocean, South China Sea & Western Pacific.

1 Battle Group of Type 076 LHA/Medium CV equipped with Loyal Wingman Drone & Bomber UCAV with 1 Squadron of J-35 as backup.
Together with 1 Type 075 ARG (Amphibious Ready Group) is much more than enough to take care any Small/Medium country across the world

Good points bro! About this 076 concept, I guess either is a LHD with "mini CATOBAR" capable of operating 5 tons jets aka UAV only, or like you say a LHA with "full-size CATOBAR" capable of 30~40 tons jets like a CV.

In the former case, LHD, it's more like a modified 075, max speed 20 knots with dock that operates 726 for heavy equipment/supplies (like 99A MBT) projection, UAV @ MTOW 5 tons + Helos, no manned fixed-wings. In the latter case, LHA, it has to be a new design close to that of a light CV, no dock (no vehicle floor, no 726), much larger hangar, jets @ MTOW 30~40 tons. We can see obviously LHA has some degree of overlap with 003-alikes, that's why I don't think PLAN has the luxury to build it in the short run. IMO, with limited budget PLAN should first build enough LHD (as well as LPD, LSD) in order to project heavy troops in amphibious warfare, and attach 003-alikes to task fleet for theater air-control if needed.

 

[redtom]

I personally is a non-believer of VTOL as least not in this gen of tech of fighting gravity, the inventor (of Yak-141) must have discontinued the program for some good reason, even nowadays effective payload (fuel + ammunition) of F-35B in VTOL mode is very limited. While STOVL is practical, its high operating costs could be an issue. I still believe in catapult, with EMALS tech its seems LHD/LHA can for the first time in history benefit from such take-off method which used to be exclusive for larger ships, and larger jets.

Yes, I think perhaps other navies may apply EMALS to construct light or multi-purpose CVs. However in PLAN's case, given the scale it's likely to have dedicated assets for different purposes, i.e. traditional CVs for sea-air control, LHD/LHA for amphibious warfare. In 076 "mini CATOBAR" concept, the aviation wing will be comprised of helos + small drones, operated with smaller EMALS, perhaps a small AR. In an amphibious warfare setting, 076 can deliver smaller drones for recon, CAS covering ground troops, and some extent of BAI, while air superiority, SEAD or deep strikes and such "heavy" duties would be executed from other ships in task fleet say traditional CVs.

VTOL is the result of wrong historical trends. After the 1982 War in Argentina , there was a period of enthusiasm for VTOL. Subsequent analysis showed that AV8B did not actually perform well. The F35B is just a continuation of this craze. The US mistakenly thought it would maintain its superiority in stealth technology for a long time, so it focused on the F35 and developed the F35B. It thought he was up against mostly Mig-21 and a few Mig-29.

 

[Daniel808]

The Difference between FC-31V2 with J-35 (Navy Version)

The Most Accurate picture of J-35 Stealth Naval Fighter

Good points bro! About this 076 concept, I guess either is a LHD with "mini CATOBAR" capable of operating 5 tons jets aka UAV only, or like you say a LHA with "full-size CATOBAR" capable of 30~40 tons jets like a CV.

In the former case, LHD, it's more like a modified 075, max speed 20 knots with dock that operates 726 for heavy equipment/supplies (like 99A MBT) projection, UAV @ MTOW 5 tons + Helos, no manned fixed-wings. In the latter case, LHA, it has to be a new design close to that of a light CV, no dock (no vehicle floor, no 726), much larger hangar, jets @ MTOW 30~40 tons. We can see obviously LHA has some degree of overlap with 003-alikes, that's why I don't think PLAN has the luxury to build it in the short run. IMO, with limited budget PLAN should first build enough LHD (as well as LPD, LSD) in order to project heavy troops in amphibious warfare, and attach 003-alikes to task fleet for theater air-control if needed.

Well said bro

But I think that will be more costly if China have 2 different types of EMALS in the Production Line instead of one.
Let's see when this thing comes out, but I still hope this will be Equipped with Normal EMALS
Especially this Type 076 Expected to have 50-60,000 Tonnes tonnage. That's almost as big as Kuznetsov/Type 001 Aircraft Carrier & much bigger than Indian AC of Vikrant and Vikramaditya or French De Gaulle

This is the screenshot of EMALS Catapult from Type 076 Bidding Announcement

In China's Shipbuilding Order of 2021-2025 :
There will be 8 Type 075 LHD, 16 Type 071 LPD, and unknown numbers of Type 076 LHA/Medium CV

The future will be a very interesting era for all of us From 2025, China's ARG (Amphibious Ready Group) & Carrier Battle Group (CVBG) will be Patrolling the world Oceans. and will take care any rogue country that dare to harm any Chinese Overseas Interests & Safety of Chinese people

 

[White and Green with M/S]

The tail is the same as J-20.

NO BUT SIMILER VERSION 2

 

[Shotgunner51]

VTOL is the result of wrong historical trends. After the 1982 War in Afghanistan, there was a period of enthusiasm for VTOL. Subsequent analysis showed that AV8B did not actually perform well. The F35B is just a continuation of this craze. The US mistakenly thought it would maintain its superiority in stealth technology for a long time, so it focused on the F35 and developed the F35B. It thought he was up against mostly Mig-21 and a few Mig-29.

Exactly. We all know the story, Russian discontinued with Yak-141, but this tech was picked up by RR, first we saw Sea Harrier, now we see F-35B, which MTOW in VTOL mode is at best 18 tons (without discounting for reserve/control), empty weight 14.7 tons, you do the maths. Except for publicity show, in operational reality it's a STOVL jet.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Type 076 Expected to have 50-60,000 Tonnes tonnage

Bro that's exactly the issue, if that's the case then 076 is another CV, carrying same jets as 003-alikes only lesser in number.

From another perspective, marine guys are fighting amphibious warfares, they storm the beachheads or deeper inland with equipment light to heavy, and hope supplies follow, J-XY or J-15 or KJ-600 are not going to do any of these for them. If 076 end up a smaller version of 003, then marine guys still count on 075 to do these basic jobs, or they go procure something like 077 and hope that is also a real LHD which use 726 to deliver them 99A, water, ammo and supplies, not to mention a lot of AAAV and Helos marine guys ride on.

I'm not saying a huge LHA (or even a gigantic CV + LHD + LSD) by itself is a negative asset, it may fit other navies but not PLAN at this moment. In my opinion, PLAN should develop both 003 and LHD in quantities, both serving their designed/dedicated purpose, and mixed in task fleet according to missions. That's why I think 076 should be an enhanced version of 075, without loosing its very specific purpose as an amphibious warfare ship. With 5 ton EMALS, marine guys can do their own recon, enjoy faster CAS (faster the WZ-10). If the sky is filled with enemy jets, let the navy guys on 003 handle that before marines go in.

Developing a 5 ton EMALS isn't necessarily a money burning exercise, the tech by nature has high flexibility in take-off-weights, a 5 ton variant is more like a watered down version of the 40-ton original. Even that's seen in steam catapult, the 75m C13‑3 on Charles de Gaulle is a shorter version of the US original. EMALS of various sizes may potentially apply to a variety of platforms.

 

[Daniel808]

Bro that's exactly the issue, if that's the case then 076 is another CV, carrying same jets as 003-alikes only lesser in number.

From another perspective, marine guys are fighting amphibious warfares, they storm the beachheads or deeper inland with equipment light to heavy, and hope supplies follow, J-XY or J-15 or KJ-600 are not going to do any of these for them. If 076 end up a smaller version of 003, then marine guys still count on 075 to do these basic jobs, or they go procure something like 077 and hope that is also a real LHD which use 726 to deliver them 99A, water, ammo and supplies, not to mention a lot of AAAV and Helos marine guys ride on.

I'm not saying a huge LHA (or even a gigantic CV + LHD + LSD) by itself is a negative asset, it may fit other navies but not PLAN at this moment. In my opinion, PLAN should develop both 003 and LHD in quantities, both serving their designed/dedicated purpose, and mixed in task fleet according to missions. That's why I think 076 should be an enhanced version of 075, without loosing its very specific purpose as an amphibious warfare ship. With 5 ton EMALS, marine guys can do their own recon, enjoy faster CAS (faster the WZ-10). If the sky is filled with enemy jets, let the navy guys on 003 handle that before marines go in.

Developing a 5 ton EMALS isn't necessarily a money burning exercise, the tech by nature has high flexibility in take-off-weights, a 5 ton variant is more like a watered down version of the 40-ton original. Even that's seen in steam catapult, the 75m C13‑3 on Charles de Gaulle is a shorter version of the US original. EMALS of various sizes may potentially apply to a variety of platforms.

Yes, Type 076 itself expected to have well deck (to hold Marine Expeditionary Forces inside) also below their flight deck, like Type 075 LHD.

And the use of J-35 onboard will be the same like how american use F-35B onboard their america class LHA

More or less like that, IMO




Yes of course, Agree with you in that part, bro

 

[rott]

Don't forget about Y-20U Strategic Aerial Tanker last month

View attachment 788554


That's also mean, Type 003 Carrier Battle Group ready to take Action Fully Equipped

https://twitter.com/x/status/1440678875617390604

Bro, whats the latest news about type 003? Any launch date? Please make a separate thread for the type 003. Heard the launch is this year but so far no news from CDF.

 

[redtom]

Bro, whats the latest news about type 003? Any launch date? Please make a separate thread for the type 003. Heard the launch is this year but so far no news from CDF.

Not likely in 2021. Only one electromagnetic catapult has been installed so far and a second is being installed. After installation but also for testing, diagnosis. Most likely 2022. April 23rd is Navy Day. Maybe on that day.