Raider 21
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Rowdy pilots. Intentional negligence
Pilot, air traffic controller held responsible for PK-8303 crash
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HAIDER
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Yes, this dumb fvck pilot seems a real syasi bharti, who don't know once engine has concrete friction, it is damaged and still it easy and safe to land with broken landing gear, because fuel is already burnt. This pilot seems to me a mini bus driver....
razgriz19
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Buddy obviously didn't even follow landing checklist. How do you forget to lower the landing gear? Boggles my mind.
PIA has way too many incompetent people, almost all of them were hired through "sifarish". PPP is to be blamed as well as they hired the most crooks.
They need to lay off at least 10 thousand of these useless people.
There is also the culture of "seniority is correct and don't question it" in Pakistan.
Until we can eradicate that, we will continue to see more and more of these incidents in Pakistan. I'm a frequent flyer, i will never give a cent to PIA crooks when flying to Pakistan.
PIA has way too many incompetent people, almost all of them were hired through "sifarish". PPP is to be blamed as well as they hired the most crooks.
They need to lay off at least 10 thousand of these useless people.
There is also the culture of "seniority is correct and don't question it" in Pakistan.
Until we can eradicate that, we will continue to see more and more of these incidents in Pakistan. I'm a frequent flyer, i will never give a cent to PIA crooks when flying to Pakistan.
Didn't the Ground Controller saw that the plane is landing without it's landing gear down ?
If landing gear is not down or not locked then why the Pilot ignore the warning or Alarms which were going off in the cockpit that something is wrong ?
Once the plane landed on it's Belly and both engines took a beating Pilot should have continued the landing and not taken off at all.
Seems to me the Pilot was a Dare Devil and Controller was either Working from home or have no training to make these judgement calls.
Pilot responsible 80% and Controller responsible 20% and PIA responsible 100%.
If landing gear is not down or not locked then why the Pilot ignore the warning or Alarms which were going off in the cockpit that something is wrong ?
Once the plane landed on it's Belly and both engines took a beating Pilot should have continued the landing and not taken off at all.
Seems to me the Pilot was a Dare Devil and Controller was either Working from home or have no training to make these judgement calls.
Pilot responsible 80% and Controller responsible 20% and PIA responsible 100%.
F86 Saber
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This proves what has already been discussed and concluded by people here at these very forums. It is also clear that Pilot did not "forget" to lower the landing gear, he did pull down the lever but since he was going to fast the landing gear did not deploy, we clearly heard the "Ding, Ding, Ding" of master caution in the ATC audio recording. I think either the cockpit crew did not realize that the master caution went off as they were too busy correcting their mistake of wrong approach altitude and speed or the pilot ignored it due to overconfidence that he was doing everything correctly.
Being a very frequent air traveler i can tell you from personal experience that there is a clear sound of the landing gear being deployed which even the passengers can hear, a pilot should surely be able to spot the lack of it even if he ignored everything else.
It was a blunder by the pilot which cost 95 people their lives including his own.
Being a very frequent air traveler i can tell you from personal experience that there is a clear sound of the landing gear being deployed which even the passengers can hear, a pilot should surely be able to spot the lack of it even if he ignored everything else.
It was a blunder by the pilot which cost 95 people their lives including his own.
baqai
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raised? wtf?
Maarkhoor
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Pilot did not forget to put landing gears down but air speed is too much which prevented safety system not to lower landing gear but pilot/s ignore beep sounds which indicate landing gear did not open since they are coming too high and too fast "HOT"....Air traffic controller did inform them about speed and altitude but pilot/s said they are comfortable "Air traffic controller can't dictate pilots" so he allowed them to land once they land and touch the runway on belly / engines he "traffic controller must inform them and ask to complete belly landing" but he again let them fly for go around....
All good except his physiological health...In past he was declare mentally not fit but again they let it go because of pilots unions.
baqai
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bhai have you read the report for **** sake, it has nothing to do with IK, NS, PPP, Taliban anyone, it was sheer pilot ruthless behavior and over confidence, ATC multiple times told them to go around but they refused to acknowledge
ACE OF THE AIR
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An accident only happens when there are multiple problems. It is never on a single problem as there are fail safe.
It seems like the final investigation report would blame training procedures of everyone were faulty and case closed.
HAIDER
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Initial report finds human error on part of pilots, ATC officials in PIA crash: aviation minister
Dawn.comUpdated June 24, 2020
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Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan speaking on the floor of the National Assembly. — DawnNewsTV
Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan, while speaking in the National Assembly on Wednesday, said that the initial report of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) June 22 plane crash found the pilots and air traffic control (ATC) officials to be at fault for not following set procedures.
Khan said that both the pilots and the ATC ignored "standard protocols".
The PIA Airbus A320 crashed last month in Karachi's Model Colony, close to the Jinnah International Airport, killing all but two of the 99 aboard. Flight PK8303 from Lahore came down about a kilometre short of the runway on its second attempt to land.
According to Khan, there was no technical fault in the plane and both the pilots were medically fit to fly. He added that data from the Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR) and Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) was decoded in the presence of foreign experts.
"According to the report, the plane was 100 per cent fit for flying. It had no technical fault. Flights were suspended due to corona, the plane took its first flight on May 7 and the crash happened on May 22. In between, it completed six flights successfully; five to and from Karachi and one to Sharjah.
"The pilot on the final approach did not identify any technical fault [as well]. At a distance of 10 miles from runway, the plane should have been at an altitude of 2,500 feet but it was around 7,220 feet. This was the first irregularity," Khan said.
He said that the ATC told the pilot thrice that the plane was too high to land but he refused to listen. Another important factor was that the pilot closed the landing gears at a distance of five nautical miles from the runway even though they were open before, he added.
Talking about further mistakes, Khan said that the plane was on auto-landing but the pilot brought it back to manual landing before the crash. It should have come in at 40 degrees but it dived at 60 degrees, he added.
The minister also blamed the pilots' "overconfidence and lack of focus" for the crash. "The pilots were discussing corona throughout the flight. They were not focused. They talked about corona [...] their families were affected. When the control tower asked him to decrease the plane's height, the pilot said 'I'll manage'. There was overconfidence."
The minister, however, added that the control tower was at fault too for not pointing out the damage to the plane after a failed attempt at landing. "[Air traffic controller] should have informed when he saw the engines on fire. The control tower did not inform pilot [so it] was at fault too. When the plane took off again, both engines were damaged.
"He was an extremely experienced pilot. What is sad is that because of the overconfidence and lack of focus of pilot and co-pilot, such a big incident happened. The interim report says cabin crew and control tower were also at fault," he said, adding that the full report would be released before the end of the year.
The minister also spoke about past accidents, the Air Blue crash in 2010, Bojha Airlines crash in 2012, plane crash in Chitral in 2016 and the crash landing of a plane in Gilgit in 2019. He said that Air Blue and Bojha Airlines crash occurred due to "human error and various breaches of flying discipline".
He added that the technical fault in the Chitral incident was "so complicated" that the plane manufacturer itself has not been able to reach a conclusion yet. The minister, however, promised that its inquiry report would be presented in August of this year.
'Almost 40pc pilots have fake licenses'
The minister said that the government had observed that major airlines in other countries did not have such a history of crashes and therefore, started to investigate pilots. There are 860 active pilots in the country, he said, adding that of these 860, 262 pilots did not even take their exams themselves.
Decrying that pilots were not hired on merit, Khan said that fake degrees and licenses were issued. "Almost 40 per cent of pilots have fake licenses," he said, adding that they did not have flying experience either.
He added that the government had started to take action against all such pilots. "In the first phase, 54 such pilots were identified. Show cause notices were issued to 24 and nine others confessed that they were unqualified.
"I believe this issue should not be politicised. It is a matter of national security. The inquiry has been free, fair and transparent," he concluded.
Shortly after the crash last month, the government had formed a committee, headed by Air Commodore Usman Ghani, who is president of the Aircraft Accident Investigation Board to determine the causes of the crash and issue a report in one month's time.
An 11-member team of Airbus, the manufacturer of the A320 aircraft, had also visited the country and investigated the site of the incident to offer technical assistance to Pakistani investigators in the PK-8303 crash probe.
Earlier this month, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said in a letter to the PIA that the pilot of the crashed aircraft did not follow the instructions of the ATC.
The CAA letter said the duty approach controller had raised a non-compliance report in respect of the pilot of PK-8303. It claimed that the pilot was warned twice about his speed and high altitude for approach but he did not follow.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBz5NCPp4LI/?utm_source=ig_embed
Dawn.comUpdated June 24, 2020
Facebook Count
Twitter Share
54
Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan speaking on the floor of the National Assembly. — DawnNewsTV
Aviation Minister Ghulam Sarwar Khan, while speaking in the National Assembly on Wednesday, said that the initial report of the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) June 22 plane crash found the pilots and air traffic control (ATC) officials to be at fault for not following set procedures.
Khan said that both the pilots and the ATC ignored "standard protocols".
The PIA Airbus A320 crashed last month in Karachi's Model Colony, close to the Jinnah International Airport, killing all but two of the 99 aboard. Flight PK8303 from Lahore came down about a kilometre short of the runway on its second attempt to land.
According to Khan, there was no technical fault in the plane and both the pilots were medically fit to fly. He added that data from the Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR) and Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) was decoded in the presence of foreign experts.
"According to the report, the plane was 100 per cent fit for flying. It had no technical fault. Flights were suspended due to corona, the plane took its first flight on May 7 and the crash happened on May 22. In between, it completed six flights successfully; five to and from Karachi and one to Sharjah.
"The pilot on the final approach did not identify any technical fault [as well]. At a distance of 10 miles from runway, the plane should have been at an altitude of 2,500 feet but it was around 7,220 feet. This was the first irregularity," Khan said.
He said that the ATC told the pilot thrice that the plane was too high to land but he refused to listen. Another important factor was that the pilot closed the landing gears at a distance of five nautical miles from the runway even though they were open before, he added.
Talking about further mistakes, Khan said that the plane was on auto-landing but the pilot brought it back to manual landing before the crash. It should have come in at 40 degrees but it dived at 60 degrees, he added.
The minister also blamed the pilots' "overconfidence and lack of focus" for the crash. "The pilots were discussing corona throughout the flight. They were not focused. They talked about corona [...] their families were affected. When the control tower asked him to decrease the plane's height, the pilot said 'I'll manage'. There was overconfidence."
The minister, however, added that the control tower was at fault too for not pointing out the damage to the plane after a failed attempt at landing. "[Air traffic controller] should have informed when he saw the engines on fire. The control tower did not inform pilot [so it] was at fault too. When the plane took off again, both engines were damaged.
"He was an extremely experienced pilot. What is sad is that because of the overconfidence and lack of focus of pilot and co-pilot, such a big incident happened. The interim report says cabin crew and control tower were also at fault," he said, adding that the full report would be released before the end of the year.
The minister also spoke about past accidents, the Air Blue crash in 2010, Bojha Airlines crash in 2012, plane crash in Chitral in 2016 and the crash landing of a plane in Gilgit in 2019. He said that Air Blue and Bojha Airlines crash occurred due to "human error and various breaches of flying discipline".
He added that the technical fault in the Chitral incident was "so complicated" that the plane manufacturer itself has not been able to reach a conclusion yet. The minister, however, promised that its inquiry report would be presented in August of this year.
'Almost 40pc pilots have fake licenses'
The minister said that the government had observed that major airlines in other countries did not have such a history of crashes and therefore, started to investigate pilots. There are 860 active pilots in the country, he said, adding that of these 860, 262 pilots did not even take their exams themselves.
Decrying that pilots were not hired on merit, Khan said that fake degrees and licenses were issued. "Almost 40 per cent of pilots have fake licenses," he said, adding that they did not have flying experience either.
He added that the government had started to take action against all such pilots. "In the first phase, 54 such pilots were identified. Show cause notices were issued to 24 and nine others confessed that they were unqualified.
"I believe this issue should not be politicised. It is a matter of national security. The inquiry has been free, fair and transparent," he concluded.
Shortly after the crash last month, the government had formed a committee, headed by Air Commodore Usman Ghani, who is president of the Aircraft Accident Investigation Board to determine the causes of the crash and issue a report in one month's time.
An 11-member team of Airbus, the manufacturer of the A320 aircraft, had also visited the country and investigated the site of the incident to offer technical assistance to Pakistani investigators in the PK-8303 crash probe.
Earlier this month, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said in a letter to the PIA that the pilot of the crashed aircraft did not follow the instructions of the ATC.
The CAA letter said the duty approach controller had raised a non-compliance report in respect of the pilot of PK-8303. It claimed that the pilot was warned twice about his speed and high altitude for approach but he did not follow.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CBz5NCPp4LI/?utm_source=ig_embed
truthseeker2010
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This was clearly the pilot error (or lack of his training) of how to ditch the plane if it lands without landing gears.
If you would blame on training procedures, than clearly the aviation authority and its rules need to be reformed who gives licence to flying schools and to pilots to fly the aircraft.
