PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

[El Sidd]

Have the number been released?

 

[aakalim]

There's a generic warning about landing gear but it doesn't tell you the difference between stuck and not locked.

If gear gets stuck and doesn't come down at all or gear does come down but doesn't lock, it will be the same warning, no way to tell the difference.

Gear that comes down but isn't locked is worse because it looks like like normal but in reality its not safe to land and that's what happened on this flight.

If there was indeed a warning, it means that the pilots knew before hand that there is some problem with the gear. Why then did they attempt a normal landing? They should have informed the ATC about the gear problem, tried everything to manually deploy the gear, and if nothing worked, then they should have attempted a belly landing in coordination with the ATC.

Seems like what actually happened was that they either got no warning or ignored the warning, attempted to land normally, realized that the gear was not deployed (or locked) only after the engines hit the ground, made a split second decision to go around, resulting in the engines going out and crashing.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Yeah but these guys knew their gear was stuck because they flew past ATC tower and ATC told them it did not come down at all.

PIA pilots probably had gear down but it didn't lock because of technical or maintenance issue, so you really don't know what will happen until you hit the ground. There's really no way to tell if gear is locked just by looking at it, you kind of have to trust it when its down. I'm surprised KHI ATC didn't say anything to pilots about their plane scraping the ground. Maybe they didn't notice?

I think its ATC negligence! When a metal scraps on ground at such high speed it has to make some spark or smoke! The pilot should have been informed to land right their instead of given him permission to takeoff and land again!

 

[ebr77]

Very very sad news . My condolences to all the people who lost their loved ones . May Allah grant them Jannat .

 

[meghdut]

Heartfelt condolences to the deceased and their families. Also all those were affected in this horrible tragedy.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I just learned about it... My condlences to the great Pakistani nation... May they rest in peace in heaven...

 

[PanzerKiel]

Balach's tags...

Balach's tags...

Badly burnt tags.

 

[R Wing]

Biggest hint is both the engines scrapping the runway.
They did that because the landing gear failed.
Is it possible the pilot(s) failed to appreciate the warnings when the gear did not open properly.Thus they went to land un aware of the situation.Refer to above video on this.
I won't go into coulda woulda shoulda.
Damage has been done.
Just learn what happened to give all future pilots a thorough briefing.

Who said those black marks are skid marks? The initial landing attempt was aborted at about 100-200m --- the plane did not touch the runway at any point.

Alright guys here is my revised theory:

1. Plane comes in for 1st landing attempt
2. Landing gear extends down but does not fully lock
3. Pilots have no idea that gear is faulty
4. When plane lands, gear is unstable, engines hit ground
5. Engines scrape ground causing black skid marks
6. Pilot immediately goes around
7. Plane goes around for 2nd landing attempt
8. Plane circles in air for 7 minutes between landings
9. During these 7 minutes, hydraulic fluid and oil is rapidly leaking out from pipes that were scraped on bottom of engine. Fuel is NOT leaking out.
10. Total loss of hydraulic failure after all hydraulic fluid leaks out from ruptured hydraulic pipes on bottom of scraped engine, flaps stop working and landing gear issues get worse. White smoke in PSPK picture is hydraulic fluid leaking out of bottom of the scraped engine.
11. Ram Air Turbine or manual gear drop deployed to solve landing gear issue.
12. All oil rapidly leaks out from oil sumps on bottom of scraped engine, both engines shut down without oil, plane now becomes glider with no thrust. Fan blades in engine are intact which means engines were not running when plane crashed.
13. Since both engines stop working, plane rapidly loses altitude during approach and crashes.
14. Plane was only leaking hydraulic fluid and oil, not fuel so there is plenty of fuel left when plane crashes causing massive fireball.

I don't believe the plane ever touched the ground during the attempted / aborted initial landing. Altitude data shows the landing was aborted at approx. 200m. Climbing rapidly from that point causes HUGE stress to the engines. The hydraulic issue that caused the initial landing gear problem may have also led to engine failure.

Another theory is that the left engine of this plane had been faulty before too and that is the one that initially failed due to the stress caused by what I described above --- and the pilot may have accidentally pulled the right engine kill lever i.e. losing both engines (this is unsubstantiated but has been shared on this thread.)

Either way, the priority right now is helping the victims as much as possible.

 

[kris]

Surprising? Have you stepped outside your rat hole called India? Ever landed at Heathrow airport?

Sorry Mr. White skin worshipper, not everything that happens somewhere need to be correct...

Might be you are a low IQ or ill mannered person, my home is not a rat hole

 

[R Wing]

And the airport did not have the CCTV, recording the inbound and outbound planes?

Even if they didn't (they probably did), the ATC / tower and ground staff can recreate the events in detail for the commission.

Sorry Mr. White skin worshipper, not everything that happens somewhere need to be correct...

Might be you are a low IQ or ill mannered person, my home is not a rat hole

I think he meant that this practice is relatively common even around extremely busy airports in developed countries. His example happened to be Heathrow but it's the case in many other cities/countries too.

I think its ATC negligence! When a metal scraps on ground at such high speed it has to make some spark or smoke! The pilot should have been informed to land right their instead of given him permission to takeoff and land again!

You are all assuming that the plane touched the runway but there has been no evidence of that so far, has there? The black marks under the engine were probably caused by other issues, as some with technical knowledge have pointed out on this thread.

The pilot would be well-aware if his engines scraped the ground.

 

[kris]

Even if they didn't (they probably did), the ATC / tower and ground staff can recreate the events in detail for the commission.



I think he meant that this practice is relatively common even around extremely busy airports in developed countries. His example happened to be Heathrow but it's the case in many other cities/countries too.

May be, but in reality government's should make sure civilian residences stay far away from airport.. rules are as such. From last few years Ind an government is not allowing any new construction work near airports.


Best example is visakhapatnam airport(andhrapradesh)

For example Begumpet airport has been shifted to Shamshabad in hyderabad (telangana)

 

[xeuss]

The hydraulic issue that caused the initial landing gear problem may have also led to engine failure.

Cannot be. Alternate extension is always available.

 

[loanranger]

Who said those black marks are skid marks? The initial landing attempt was aborted at about 100-200m --- the plane did not touch the runway at any point.

It was an hypothesis. Please explain other possibilities that may lead to identical black on the base of both engines.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

You are all assuming that the plane touched the runway but there has been no evidence of that so far, has there? The black marks under the engine were probably caused by other issues, as some with technical knowledge have pointed out on this thread.

The pilot would be well-aware if his engines scraped the ground.

Their was another incident long time ago with PIA where the pilot forgot to retract his wheels and landed on belly. I believe it was a 747 but i am not sure.
Here is a video of aviation expert who also has mentioned that engines hit the ground.

 

[Aspen]

I think its ATC negligence! When a metal scraps on ground at such high speed it has to make some spark or smoke! The pilot should have been informed to land right their instead of given him permission to takeoff and land again!

Honestly, the flight was doomed when pilot made the decision to abort

Who said those black marks are skid marks? The initial landing attempt was aborted at about 100-200m --- the plane did not touch the runway at any point.

I don't believe the plane ever touched the ground during the attempted / aborted initial landing. Altitude data shows the landing was aborted at approx. 200m. Climbing rapidly from that point causes HUGE stress to the engines. The hydraulic issue that caused the initial landing gear problem may have also led to engine failure.

Another theory is that the left engine of this plane had been faulty before too and that is the one that initially failed due to the stress caused by what I described above --- and the pilot may have accidentally pulled the right engine kill lever i.e. losing both engines (this is unsubstantiated but has been shared on this thread.)

Either way, the priority right now is helping the victims as much as possible.

If plane didn't touch the ground, then what the hell are the black marks on the bottom of the engines?