Peshawar women banned from living alone

[Awesome]

How about if the women opted to reside with their family members instead? Women that don't have any relatives should be taken care of by the state authorities. Here all criticism against the state authorities is justified if/when they don't live up to their responsibilities (which in most cases is true).

What does "being taken care of" mean? Do the women have to be subjected to charity accommodations? A working class woman who is not married and does not have children or parents to support her, can't live off on her own? What next, stop them from working? Owning business?

Basically if a woman wants to get away from her family members, she just can't. Life should be free for all, let people choose what they want to do. If there are murders happening around town, let the women choose for themselves. If the government wants to take care of them, offer it, but don't force it.

 

[deckingraj]

That is your assumption. An assumption that I completely differ with for the reason I've already stated.

Which is fine....This is a discussion forum and people will have different opinion....

You assume that such measures taken by the authorities are discriminatory against women whilst not fully grasping the ground reality.

When you single out women it by default become discriminatory...You are doing it for their good or bad is a different discussion....As said in previous posts do you think women are dumb??? Why state govt. can't issue an advisory for women to not stay single rather than make is compulsory??? It is like saying that women folks cannot take care of themselves so we(men) should decide where they are safe to stay....Now if this is not discriminatory than what is???

Peshawar is practically an unstable war zone. Anyone that doesn't acknowledge this has either been hiding in a cave or hibernating for the past few years.

I don't think that i denied peshawar being unstable....

Don't compare a man with a woman please. I understand that many here are obsessed with the idea of giving equal rights to women (which btw is all fine with me),

Their is no obsession...we are in 21 centuary and no one needs obsession to say men and women should be treated equal.....

but try to understand the physical differences. A male is in a much better position to protect his family. Especially, in a society like Peshawar where male are more dominant in the public domain.

I know the physical difference but that's the choice should be left to women....They are not kids or retards....

Once you understand the cultural sensitivities and the declining security situation of this city you'll also appreciate the measures taken by the authority to safeguard women.

I am sorry no matter how bad the situation is....any law strictly against women is discriminatory.....I have already explained my POV in the previous post...

 

[Bas_tum_Pak]

I don't support this move its not going to solve this issue but they have been forced to take this step...

Its a crime to be born a female

Shame on me....

Move is not good , being a female is very good .

we are one of the best state where there is huge respect of women, We respect our mothers , love our wives and Take care of our sisters.

on the basis of some bad acts you can't say that being a female is crime .

It is not shameful thing that 98% of Women are happy in their families having lovely family system.

 

[illuminatus]

Exactly that's the point that i am trying to make....Why singling out women when it comes to forcing someone by law...As said before i strongly believe considering women as weaker sex and thus all laws against their freedom should be unequivocally condemned...If security situation is bad then it is bad for all and not just women alone....

To give an example fatwas are raised for all women to wear burqa or they will be targeted...Now how do you deal with the problem??? Make a law for all women to wear burqa or get rid of the problem maker and leave the choice of wearing burqa to women???

For the reasons that I've already explained above. Women are most definitely equal to men, but women are also more vulnerable. Especially in war like and insecure situations. Whether this applies to all genders still doesn't negate the fact that women are by far the weakest out of the whole lot. You're ignoring the arguments that I've given in the previous posts and posing the same questions again. Also, in our culture it's the responsibility of the men to protect and guard their women/children from harms way. How can men guard women when they're living all by themselves?

Even though this rhetorical question is totally off topic I feel obliged to answer it since there is a lot of misunderstanding on this issue. The fatwas for wearing burqa's are a clear cut violation of Islamic laws. No where in the holy Quran or any other divine source has it been stated that a burqa is compulsory for women. However, it's compulsory for women to cover certain private body parts which will suffice. If women still choose to wear burqa's it's their freedom to do so. They may have their reasons for wearing such a veil. Do we stop punks from wearing crosses and pearcings? Not unlike France that snatches these rights from Muslim women. Now, that's known as blatant discrimination.

 

[deckingraj]

. If women still choose to wear burqa's it's their freedom to do so. Not unlike France that snatches these rights from Muslim women. Now, that's known as blatant discrimination.

Use the same logic of FREEDOM TO CHOOSE against this stupid law by peshawar authorities and you will see what i am opposing....b/w i used the analogy to draw my point of killing the disease not the patient...

Also, in our culture it's the responsibility of the men to protect and guard their women/children from harms way. How can men guard women when they're living all by themselves?

The point is what if women don't want your protection....

You're ignoring the arguments that I've given in the previous posts and posing the same questions again

If you read my post i am trying to challenge your points....However you have not answered even a single time why was this forced by law vs an advisory and let women choose for themselves what is good or bad for them....

 

[TruthSeeker]

On the one hand, you conveniently take the Wahabi side when it suits your ends.

2)Your aim is very clear and it isn't sincere.

I NEVER take the Wahabi side!!! My point really was to lament that Islam has no authorities that CAN "excommunicate" some of these extremists. I was making the point that YOUR opinion on the matter isn't worth ANYTHING.

I am a whole lot more sincere about wanting the women of Pakistan to have good and fulfilling lives than you are. Illuminatus, where does that name come from? The sacred trilogy of conspiracy?

 

[illuminatus]

Use the same logic of FREEDOM TO CHOOSE against this stupid law by peshawar authorities and you will see what i am opposing....

I'll be very blunt to you. This law is only stupid because it differs with your so-called liberal ideals. Your liberal ideals state that it's perfectly okay for women to interact with men in any way they wish. That might be perfectly reasonable according to your cultural norms and values, but in our part of the region it's considered as immoral and obscene. Something that you will never understand I'm afraid. You expect others to respect your so-called liberal and civilized laws and ways yet are unwilling to do the same for the opposing side? That's known as hypocrisy and applying double standards. By all means, live by your own liberal thoughts and ideas, but don't impose it on others. Your denial and constant bickering is enough testimony that you despise our way of living.

The point is what if women don't want your protection....

Let me guess, you're a psychic that can read other peoples minds. Where did you come to the conclusion that women in our region don't want any protection from men? This is utter nonsense and typical denial from someone that is trying to impose his ideals on others. Again, thanks for the offer, but we don't need any lecturing from an outsider that doesn't have the slightest of notion how things work on this side.

If you read my post i am trying to challenge your points....However you have not answered even a single time why was this forced by law vs an advisory and let women choose for themselves what is good or bad for them....

I've read your posts and understand them fully. This law is forced for the protection of women. Period. What other reason or rational do you want? There is no time to let women, men and children choose whatever is best for them whilst bombs are going off in every street of the city. The state decides in such dire situations what's best for their people. If you want to give a negative angle to these measures that's your thinking.

 

[illuminatus]

I NEVER take the Wahabi side!!! My point really was to lament that Islam has no authorities that CAN "excommunicate" some of these extremists. I was making the point that YOUR opinion on the matter isn't worth ANYTHING.

I am a whole lot more sincere about wanting the women of Pakistan to have good and fulfilling lives than you are. Illuminatus, where does that name come from? The sacred trilogy of conspiracy?

Yes, you did! You did it because I was confronting you at that time and you were trying to prove me wrong. It was your ego that had blinded you to take the side of the Wahabi's. Well, the same applies to your worthless opinion on this matter. Before judging me think about that.

You mean killing more people with drone strikes and imposing your so-called liberal ideas on our society? You still wonder why we resist your warmongering? Don't you for one moment think that our people have forgotten the carnage that you left behind after the Cold War. It affected us most in Pakistan. We will never take the word of occupying crusaders seriously. Don't you teach us about our moral values. Stop judging our values. You're the last person on this planet that should be pointing fingers at us whilst massacring and invading other countries on false pretences. You pretend to be a Messiah sent by God. With a bible in one hand and a gun in another. You're far from being the good Samaritan that you pretend to be. Wherever my name comes from is none of your concern. Don't you try to impose your way of living on us or we will resist you.

 

[deckingraj]

First of all please relax...I did not do any personal attacks on you and deserve the same treatment....People will have different opinion and if you don't feel like discussing just say it rather than loosing patience....Now let me reply to your points....

I'll be very blunt to you.

Thats ok..but if possible don't loose your calm....

This law is only stupid because it differs with your so-called liberal ideals. Your liberal ideals state that it's perfectly okay for women to interact with men in any way they wish. That might be perfectly reasonable according to your cultural norms and values, but in our part of the region it's considered as immoral and obscene.

Wait a minute... From where did this women interacting with men and blah blah came into our discussion??? Did i say anything like that??? Here we are talking about choice...Now is it against Islam for women to live alone or is bad as per your culture??? If not then when you force them by Law then it is discriminatory......Second point which i am afraid you will not understand is that what is wrong is wrong....Men and women are equal and obscenity is in one's mind....Having said that religious/cultural freedom is one's own and should not be forced...but let's leave this discussion for some time later and stick to the topic....

Something that you will never understand I'm afraid. You expect others to respect your so-called liberal and civilized laws and ways yet are unwilling to do the same for the opposing side?

No i am not disrespecting anyone's ways of living....but forcing someone to do anything is wrong weather you look at it in liberal way or religious way.....

That's known as hypocrisy and applying double standards. By all means, live by your own liberal thoughts and ideas, but don't impose it on others. Your denial and constant bickering is enough testimony that you despise our way of living.

It's strange that you accuse me of imposing my thoughts and ideas on you and have such string opinions about it but on other hand support imposing of this law.....Is it not hypocrisy???

Let me guess, you're a psychic that can read other peoples minds. Where did you come to the conclusion that women in our region don't want any protection from men?

No i am not psychic but can you please point any such remarks posted by me that suggest all women want or don't want protection from men....I am asking what if they(here i don't mean all) don't want..that's why i stated several times that issuing an advisory would have made sense with ultimate choice left to women...If they feel threatened they should be able CHOOSE what they want to do about it... Do you really think me saying this is disrespecting your culture????

This is utter nonsense and typical denial from someone that is trying to impose his ideals on others. Again, thanks for the offer, but we don't need any lecturing from an outsider that doesn't have the slightest of notion how thinks work on this side.

That's the problem....Calling me an outsider doesn't help....Discuss your points and share your counter points if you want to....B/w right on this thread there are people who belong to that side of the border and i believe knows how things work there and yet seems to be in agreement with my overall point...which is DONT FORCE LEAVE THE CHOICE TO WOMEN

I've read your posts and understand them fully. This law is forced for the protection of women. Period. What other reason or rational do you want? There is no time to let women, men, children choose whatever is best for them whilst bombs are going off in every street of the city. The state decides in such situations what's best for their people.

Well if you believe so then can't help it....Its the thinking that men can take care of themselves but not women is flawed....What if tomorrow state thinks that women on roads should not be allowed all by herself because they cannot safeguard themselves???

 

[TruthSeeker]

^^^^ Ahhhhhhhh! Illuminatus! I see. You are located inside Pandora's box. When they let you out you spew the poison that you live with ......

 

[illuminatus]

What does "being taken care of" mean? Do the women have to be subjected to charity accommodations? A working class woman who is not married and does not have children or parents to support her, can't live off on her own? What next, stop them from working? Owning business?

Basically if a woman wants to get away from her family members, she just can't. Life should be free for all, let people choose what they want to do. If there are murders happening around town, let the women choose for themselves. If the government wants to take care of them, offer it, but don't force it.

Well, most of your cynicism can be answered quite easily. Our norms and values just happen to differ even within the boundaries of Pakistan. Most people on the other side of the river just happen to have closer tendencies with India due to geographical proximity. We, on this side of the river, have our own ideas about how the society should function. Don't criticize and judge our way of living as we don't judge yours.

Women are by all means allowed to work, participate in the society like men, drive cars etc. Women are equal to men in that respect. That also means that women are fully allowed to own businesses etc. By posing negative questions and putting words in my mouth you're assuming that I'm somehow anti-woman. Portraying me as some nasty savage that abhors women isn't correct. I regard women very highly. That's my upbringing. As a mother, sister, wife etc. We appreciate our women more than others can even imagine. That's also the reason why we protect and hold them so dearly.

However, we regard the sanctity of women very highly. We believe that she's vulnerable and easily misused by the society. We don't believe in the concept of women serving as lustful sexual objects like in most Western countries. We want women to be respected. Therefore it's important that a man provides all her needs and requirements. That's the responsibility of a man towards a woman. How can that ever be discriminatory in nature? If some people take this as an offence that's their misunderstanding.

When the state imposes her laws it needs to be respected and not questioned. The state understands the problems that the citizens are facing. Just respect the decision taken by the state and don't impose your idea of women being able to take care of themselves. Women are the easiest of preys during conflicts. Haven't we learnt anything from world conflicts?

 

[illuminatus]

@deckingraj I've already answered 99.9% of your questions, but I guess we're still in a never-ending spiral. You're trying your best to prove your point. I respect that. However, we agree to disagree. By all means continue to believe in your so-called progressive ideas. I don't stop anyone from doing so. The only thing that irritates me is when others judge a whole group of people for their ideals and beliefs. I have a problem when people try to paint a negative picture based on perceptions disregarding the actual ground realities. On top of that, people try to forcefully impose their thoughts on others. That's plain wrong and unacceptable. Disagree (which is everyone's right), but at least show some respect. Having said that it's time to close this discussion. I've made my point and that's all that matters in the end.

 

[graphican]

You know what it not your fault....actually we have so much suspicion for each other that even a simple statement made by people from opposite side is considered as masalas and what not

This is the only part of your post where I agree with you. We both are keeping our reasons and parameters to judge and decide which unfortunately are not along the same line of thought. So next time if something like that happens in your country, you can raise voice to let women live in their homes, even when unfortunately 26 of them get killed. In my case, I am pleased to support government's preventive measure when it is happening in my country. I hope this would settle the little argument between us. Have a good day

 

[deckingraj]

This is the only part of your post where I agree with you. We both are keeping our reasons and parameters to judge and decide which unfortunately are not along the same line of thought. So next time if something like that happens in your country, you can raise voice to let women live in their homes, even when unfortunately 26 of them get killed. In my case, I am pleased to support government's preventive measure when it is happening in my country. I hope this would settle the little argument between us. Have a good day

Yes of course...We all should learn how to Agree to Disagree.....Trust me the only thing that is putting me off is forcing them...I would have respected the decision had they issued an advisory saying that it is risky for women to live all by themselves....anyways no point in beating the dead horse...

 

[samv]

If you read my post, I never said that India is a safer/better place for women than any other south asian country. What I did say was that the government does not make such laws. As for your other point regarding TTP and other radicals, look at Sri Lanka. LTTE during its heydays were far more powerful than TTP still I dont think they ever made such stupid laws.

LTTE issues dress code for Tamils

By Our Correspondent

JAFFNA, Oct 17: Sri Lanka’s Tamil Tigers have imposed dress restrictions for Tamil youth, sources in Jaffna said. Posters put up by the LTTE have detailed separate dress codes for females and males. The growth of beard and long hair have been forbidden for young men.

For girls, close-fitting shirts and skirts have been banned along with the wearing of trousers. Instead girls have been asked to wear the Tamil costume of Shalwar Kameez.

“This seems worse than the Taliban. But how do we protest,” a young Tamil university student wondered, lamenting that her student allowance was not sufficient to invest in a whole new wardrobe.

“Normally a directive like this would bring us out onto the roads in fiery protest. But this is Jaffna and for us it is like living in a killing field,” a woman rights activist said. The dress directive was preceded by posters asking Tamils not to interact with members of the Sri Lankan military.

LTTE issues dress code for Tamils -DAWN - International; October 18, 2005