Peshawar school attackers mostly Pakistan nationals: DG ISPR!

[Azizam]

i think part of the reason is that iran is an exclusive country which has a long history and cultural heritage i.e. they're all part of one ethnic group which is persian they have common dress food language norms etc whereas in Pakistan it's the exact opposite and all these different ethnicities were made to join together and forced to live with each other whether or not it was of their own will so the concept of nationalism becomes very difficult. but then again, nationalism is more prevalent among the middle classes and upper classes whereas the elite and the lower strata couldn't give 2 craps about 'Pakistan'. the only way to promote national unity is through development and education but again the problem of the tribals who are super arrogant and unwilling to develop comes up.
well we're on the right track so i hope we get over it someday and people start thinking as Pakistanis first than muslims.
as one author put it 'the day Pakistan's extremist problems end are when the the people start thinking of themselves as a singular nation-state and not an Ummah checkpost'.

Thanks for the clarification. This is the point I tried to make and I am glad that there are many Pakistanis who admit it. I wish the very best for the state of Pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

Of course, though this is a tough pill for some pathetic Pakistanis to swallow. Still living in denial, making damn sure that every death goes in vain.

You didn't hear the rest of the DG's briefing ?

 

[Norwegian]

First make your mind what you want to say b@stard. Like even b@stards have clarity in their position. You on the hand is unique case who doesn't even know what he is talking. First you say Pakistan supported terrorists then you also have problem fighting against terrorists. No wonder I call you a ch!tya. You are a ch*tya of a special kind.

Yeah sure ISI supported terrorist Afghan Taliban until 9/11 happened and they started a war against the same people who were previously "good terrorists". In response TTP was born

 

[Areesh]

Yeah sure ISI supported terrorist Afghan Taliban until 9/11 happened and they started a war against the same people who were previously "good terrorists". In response TTP was born

TTP even existed before 9/11. IT just got a lot more powerful with American invasion of Afghanistan. Again like a confused b@stard you have no f*cking idea what you are talking about.

 

[Norwegian]

TTP even existed before 9/11. IT just got a lot more powerful with American invasion of Afghanistan. Again like a confused b@stard you have no f*cking idea what you are talking about.

Sure TTP was there before 9/11 as well but was called something else. Any idea how and why it ballooned after 9/11?

 

[Areesh]

Sure TTP was there before 9/11 as well but was called something else. Any idea how and why it ballooned after 9/11?

Lol there you go. You just backtracked from your earlier statement. As I said. You are a confused b@stard who has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[Norwegian]

Lol there you go. You just backtracked from your earlier statement. As I said. You are a confused b@stard who has no idea what he is talking about.

Moron, TTP is not one faction. It was there all along, only reborn as a united faction after 9/11!
Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jungibaaz]

Well for me you guys(mods, admins) are traitors. For providing a perfect Pakistani platform to filthy Indians to attack Pakistanis, their country, their religion, their beliefs, their culture and everything else.

You guys are no short than f*cking traitors to me. And I say it openly.

I won't delete your post. I won't ban you because you're not worth my time. Here's some tough pills for you to swallow. The amount of times I've seen YOU personally instigate is far too much, I've seen you do it, you insult and then they insult, and when they insult my country and religion, it hurts and I blame YOU, not them for being ignorant and responding, but for you for stirring sh*t in the first place.

Also, this is an international forum where Pakistan related discussions are the central theme, there is naturally a Pakistani bias throughout, but we by our very job description mean we don't discriminate when dealing with members, no special treatment. Forum rules are that simple. If it wasn't for Indian presence, would I be seeing your sorry behind on this forum?

Answer honestly, otherwise don't bother wasting your time and mine.

 

[janon]

Thats the nature of contentious issues and every society has a different flavor of them which is precisely why you see Gay Rights activists and Anti-Gay protesters butting their heads with each other for that is a contentious issues in American society; Free speech is not nor is the Siphoning off people's retirement funds !

I was pointing out the fallacy of the examples you gave earlier, about anti rape protests and antwi wall street protests. The difference being that nobody supports the other side - rapists or wall street screw ups.

But now you are bringing a different example that is irrelevant to the original point, which was about the protests for or against a specific incident at a particular time. Pro and anti gay rights protests will happen until the whole country has laws in place, and it ceases to be apolitical hot potato. That is how laws get made in democracies, though protests and demonstrations by people who passionately believe in something.

But nobody there would hold rallies in support of criminals who bomb abolition centers or churches accepting homosexuality. But in Pakistan, there were several rallies praising the killers:

So your new example doesn't really hold up.

Also, tell me this - how many rallies were held in Pakistan in support of the cartoonists? You are asking me for empirical evidence - of course I don't have any at hand, and am willing to be enlightened - can you please show me news of rallies in Pakistan protesting for freedom of speech and the right to insult any person, including prophets? If you can find me even one such rally where Pakistanis argue that Frenchpeople have every right to disrespect a prophet and not be killed for it, then I shall research empirically to see how many people support the right to blaspheme and how many support the killers.

Until then, I shall go with my educated guess rather than empirical evidence.

I won't delete your post. I won't ban you because you're not worth my time. Here's some tough pills for you to swallow. The amount of times I've seen YOU personally instigate is far too much, I've seen you do it, you insult and then they insult, and when they insult my country and religion, it hurts and I blame YOU, not them for being ignorant and responding, but for you for stirring sh*t in the first place.

Also, this is an international forum where Pakistan related discussions are the central theme, there is naturally a Pakistani bias throughout, but we by our very job description mean we don't discriminate when dealing with members, no special treatment. Forum rules are that simple. If it wasn't for Indian presence, would I be seeing your sorry behind on this forum?

Answer honestly, otherwise don't bother wasting your time and mine.

I wish we Indians were given as much leeway as him, to call another member a "bastard" in seven continous posts, without even getting a negative rating. (To say nothing of a ban.)

 

[Norwegian]

I wish we Indians were given as much leeway as him, to call another member a "bastard" in seven continous posts, without even getting a negative rating. (To say nothing of a ban.)

@Areesh always get special treatment I guess

 

[Porus]

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at all. Current situation in Pakistan is capable enough to produce these kinda merciless killers. However I just wonder what sort brainwashing it takes to prepare someone to carry this kinda heinous act?

I can assure you many Pakistanis are aware of the level of brainwashing for which the people of FATA are paying a heavy price but they still hesitate to accept it. Pakistanis are not one of those who accept their mistakes when they do something wrong, emend them and move on. Not only they keep repeating their mistakes but also manage to find enough scapegoats, and at the same time pretend as if they have nothing to do with the crisis. The militant outfits like TTP, LeJ, SSP and many others are actually just the aftermath of Afghanistan and Kashmir Jihad. Pakistan army brainwashed its own people and used them for its proxy wars in Afghanistan, Kashmir and even within Pakistan, but now some militants have turned their guns against their former mentor for different reasons.

 

[janon]

@Areesh always get special treatment I guess

So do a certain few other Pakistanis, for reasons unknown to me. Most others (Indians or Pakistanis) don't enjoy the same largesse.

Webby once infracted me for asking "Are you stupid?" to another member.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Yeah sure ISI supported terrorist Afghan Taliban until 9/11 happened and they started a war against the same people who were previously "good terrorists". In response TTP was born

This good terrorist bad terrorist, Afghan, Pakistani Taliban, pre and post-9/11 you're oversimplifying.
To blame like that is to miss out key details and definitive elements of the story. A few facts, questions rather for you to consider before making your judgement:

What is the difference between the TTP and Afghan Taliban, and some sub factions?
What is the difference between the Afghan Taliban post-9/11 and 90's era?
What was the political landscape of Afghanistan at the time, right from the exit of the Soviets, carrying into the Njibullah government, and the two civil wars? I can tell you that people ruled Kabul once that made Taliban look like fairies and saints.
Origins of the taliban in 1994 and the reasons for their widespread support and successful campaign.
Who are the Northern Alliance and what is their significance in post Soviet Afghanistan and whom do they represent and who do they hold grudges with?
Ethnic and sectarian colours to the conflict, right from the civil war, till today? The time of the soviet invasion, seeds were sown once again of an old divide between people, triggered between mistrust and betrayal between opposing factions and tribes.
How did the US' change the conflict?
How did the presence of foreign troops once again, change the entire equation not just over there, but in Pakistan too.

Answer even half of these questions adequately and you would not so confidently blame the ISI, trust me.

I wish we Indians were given as much leeway as him, to call another member a "bastard" in seven continous posts, without even getting a negative rating. (To say nothing of a ban.)

I've been considering doing it myself, banning for all the insulting he's been doing here. But at the risk of being labelled a traitor again. If any member has reported him, I'll let another mod take care of it. General rule of thumb I use is, if I've replied to a thread, I'd think twice before moderating it, and if I've become involved in a tussle like this, I'll leave it for someone else to deal with. Again avoiding the risk of seeming like a tyrant and a hypocrite.

 

[Norwegian]

Answer even half of these questions adequately and you would not so confidently blame the ISI, trust me.

Of course I do not blame ISI alone. Although ISI under leadership of ZIA did help form Mujahideen to fight "Afghan Jihad" against Soviet Union. There is no denying it as USA, Saudia at the time funded it as well:
THE ABC'S OF JIHAD IN AFGHANISTAN * Courtesy, USA

My criticism of ISI is legitimate as their job was to defend Pakistan's interests against foreign powers, NOT playing in the hands of foreign powers for $$$.

 

[janon]

I've been considering doing it myself, banning for all the insulting he's been doing here. But at the risk of being labelled a traitor again. If any member has reported him, I'll let another mod take care of it. General rule of thumb I use is, if I've replied to a thread, I'd think twice before moderating it, and if I've become involved in a tussle like this, I'll leave it for someone else to deal with. Again avoiding the risk of seeming like a tyrant and a hypocrite.

That is actually a sensible policy for mods to follow - I have myself suggested that previously, that mods should not moderate discussions they actively participate in.