Pervez Hoodbhoy's Secular Delusion

[El Sidd]

@Zaki @waz @The Eagle @WAJsal

Mods, I think you need to step in...

Why?

Nothing against PTi said till now.

 

[Lincoln]

So you're a believer of the atheist religion? Thanks for coming out the closet and showing your true colors.

And yes, Quran and Sunnah can be proven, simply by observing the nature; from the smallest leaf to the most complex intelligent organism, ie the human. Only the most intelligent Being could create such complex creatures. This is why religion and belief in a Almighty Creator comes natural to billions of people worldwide, whereas your fake Atheism has to be taught by mullahs in lab coats


Than you cannot build morality or a world order on something that is inconsistent and uncertain. This should be common sense, something you libturds seem to be lacking.

No wonder stalin and Lenin massacred millions; atheist cannot create morality in science.

Like I already said, belief in more than one God is also held by over a billion. So that must be universal and natural too.

And if it's so natural, why are Muslims so scared of removing the apostasy law.

 

[Psychic]

I am sure that 7 heavens can be proved, and that the splitting of the moon is reproduceable, and that it can be proven that shooting stars or meteors in the sky are actually chasing Jinn.

And then you say that you aren't an atheist. At least be honest.

 

[Desert Fox]

1. And if you can't build morality around something inconsistent, then how can you build machines and technology which saves hundreds of thousands of lives each year?

Bro! Are you seriously comparing living breathing Humans to inanimate objects like machines???? Like WTF!!! You just took the definition of moron to another level.

Morality applies to us, humans. Science cannot give us morality. Why is that so hard to understand???

2. Political systems are not built on science, the current ones are there to allow critical thinking and progressiveness, and their credibility has been proven with time because these systems have been successful in most countries

Yeah, progressiveness like permitting sex with animals, dropping nuclear bombs on civilians, starving 500,000 Iraqi children to death through sanctions, supporting and funding terrorist organizations and brutal dictators. Very progressive and morally superior I must admit.

3. Okay, I can see intelligent design in nature. But how do I know which God made it? Was it your God, my God, was it more than 1 God?

There is only one God, because LOGIC dictates that if there were more than one God, then we wouldn't exist because more than one and equally powerful gods would constantly be at war or competition with each other and something as consistent and complimentary as the natural environment and intelligent creation wouldn't be able to exist in such a chaotic environment.

With all your claims of being logical and rational you Liberals really don't use your brains.

 

[Psychic]

Morality applies to us, humans. Science cannot give us morality. Why is that so hard to understand???

They sound as if morality is something that can be generated in chemistry lab like WTH !

 

[Desert Fox]

machines and technology which saves hundreds of thousands of lives each year?

And what about the machines that don't save millions of lives each year but actually kill millions of lives?

Drones?

Nuclear bombs?

Chemical weapons?

Biological weapons?

Yes, morally superior indeed

 

[Lincoln]

Bro! Are you seriously comparing living breathing Humans to inanimate objects like machines???? Like WTF!!! You just took the definition of moron to another level.

Morality applies to us, humans. Science cannot give us morality. Why is that so hard to understand???

Yeah, progressiveness like permitting sex with animals, dropping nuclear bombs on civilians, starving 500,000 Iraqi children to death through sanctions, supporting and funding terrorist organizations and brutal dictators. Very progressive and morally superior I must admit.

There is only one God, because LOGIC dictates that if there were more than one God, then we wouldn't exist because more than one and equally powerful gods would constantly be at war or competition with each other and something as consistent and complimentary as the natural environment and intelligent creation wouldn't be able to exist in such a chaotic environment.

With all your claims of being logical and rational you Liberals really don't use your brains.

1. I am talking about the accuracy and reliability of science. And science isn't used to dictate morality anyway, because morality is a social construct. Biological science however is used to guide morality. The same biological science that saves hundreds of thousands of lives. That was my point.

2. You make the west sound so horrible while everyone is running to it, right, left and center.

3. How do you know they would fight, what if they're cooperative, what if they have their own domains.

And then you say that you aren't an atheist. At least be honest.

I believe in them. But you honestly can't prove these. Religion is about belief and faith. How are you going to prove that meteors run after jinn?

 

[Psychic]

I believe in them.

But you don't believe Islamic principles of governance to be superior to Western secular principles of governance. What kind of believer are you? Your belief itself is questionable.

 

[Desert Fox]

3. How do you know they would fight, what if they're cooperative, what if they have their own domains.

Because logic: can two lions coexist in the same den?

Can two superpowers coexist?

Can two stars coexist in the same galaxy?

LOGIC my friend, you are not using your LOGIC. No wonder you fell for the most irrational ideology of Liberal secularism.

2. You make the west sound so horrible while everyone is running to it, right, left and center.

You do the same when you complain about the state of Pakistan which is exists precisely because of Western Liberal Secular domination. So you're proving my point when you complain about the current state of affairs in Pakistan which are direct & indirect consequences of the Liberal secular order.

1. I am talking about the accuracy and reliability of science.

Who disputed science's accuracy in the material observable world?

But what you are doing, applying science as a religion to humans who are more than just material, is what leads to mass genocides like in your Atheist paradise of Soviet Russia and Communist China.

And science isn't used to dictate morality anyway, because morality is a social construct.

Man-made morality is a social construc . But morality based on God's message and His Messenger is not a social construct.

This is why God given morality tells us having sex with animals is HARAM.

Whereas your man-made Liberal morality makes sex with animals legal and permissable.

Do you see the difference? I hope you will use your logic

 

[Lincoln]

But you don't believe Islamic principles of governance to be superior to Western secular principles of governance. What kind of believer are you? Your belief itself is questionable.

Literally no two groups, sects, countries have the same idea of Islamic principles of governance.

 

[El Sidd]

Like I already said, belief in more than one God is also held by over a billion. So that must be universal and natural too.

And if it's so natural, why are Muslims so scared of removing the apostasy law.

Its also natural to eliminate the traitor to the nation(ummah).

Muslims believe only in one God. Why don't you tackle those who have multiple Gods theory and eliminate their arguments before final option of one God.

Why this selective nature with Muslims or Islam? Why can't you let them be?

Literally no two groups, sects, countries have the same idea of Islamic principles of governance.

Needed for progressive growth and stops stagnant polity dead in its tracks.

 

[The Accountant]

That's not what secularism means. Secularism simply means a state where religion has no business in state affairs. It's a personal matter of each individual.

Is society culture economic and politics are not part of life style. I used the term life style specificaly.

So if i being blunt if your daughter or sister want to mary another girl then state cannot intervene and mr. Hoobhoy is the right person to decide that?

Sorry but if your mother is living with his boy friend rather than your father then state must nit intervene coz it is the reason of our poor economy.

 

[Psychic]

Literally no two groups, sects, countries have the same idea of Islamic principles of governance.

Are secular ideals of say the US similar to those in India or Germany?

Why should we accept secularism then; by your own logic.

 

[The Accountant]

Sorry for the harsh examples but this is what secularisim means. State eith no business of religion and without religion gay marriage and lesbion is fine.

 

[El Sidd]

Sorry for the harsh examples but this is what secularisim means. State eith no business of religion and without religion gay marriage and lesbion is fine.

marriage or holy matrimony is a religious concept.

cohabitation and marriage are not the same.