Perpetually abroad, Modi loses sight of the grassroots mauled by demonetization

[Bibo]

first of all, the term "sickular" was founded by our dear bothers n sisters who see the world in orange (quite healthy for the body and equally poisonous for the mind).
BJP will not and cannot be secular (not sickular) till its under the babaji called RSS. the day BJP gets out of the latter's shadow and gets its own face, we shall judge then how much secular BJP will be. till then, BJP will be a hindu nationalist party, no more no less. but its not necessary that everything that they do will be against secularism, like , implementing a railway project.
regarding UCC, who told you that anybody secular will oppose the same. heck anybody remotely secular will fight tooth n nail for it. so no, europe and america are essentially in secular hands.
rest i agree.

All political parties that operate under the CONSTITUTION OF INDIA is Secular ......... its not like they have a Choice

Try this kinder garden propaganda somewhere else.

What BJP is NOT is for "MINORITY APPEASEMENT" which passes for "Secularism" among "intellectuals" (left)


CONgress used to be a HINDU NATIONALIST PARTY ............ don't believe me ? Ask Jinnah Ask Ambedkar.

 

[wiseone2]

Irrigation management IS water management.

If you want get "smarter" about farming, Make Farming PROFITABLE like IT.

Suddenly you will find all the IITiansn and IIM' grads rushing into Farming.

Be careful what you wish for.

Suddenly you will find that the farmer is rich while you are not.

Governments in India routinely impose price controls to keep food prices artificially low. They do so to gain favor with their more politically powerful urban residents. The irony of this situation is that by artificially depressing the price of food, government reduce incentives for farmers to produce and reduce the availability of food from indigenous sources.

If you want consider irrigation management the same as water management it is fine with me. In India Irrigation is strictly watering the farmland. It does not deal with potential outcomes - keeping the land uncultivated, not growing certain crops etc.

Farming has its limitations. You cannot buy farmland in any village in India. There are caste, religion and linguistic restrictions. The size of farms is limited by land ceiling acts. There is petty politics in many villages that limit the potential of some farms

Your point about price control is noted. A lot of urban folks cannot afford food unless it is subsidized. If you allow farmers to charge "market" prices this is what happen. Middleman will enter the business. A lot of farmers will still be poor. It happened in the past. It will happen in the future.

Government buys wheat. millions of tonnes rot in warehouses

 

[Bibo]

Govt controls (or rather tries to control) retail price of food, and subsidizes the cost of production for farmers too. A noble cause I should say. Problem lies in between. Farmers sell their produce at dirt cheap prices to traders, aggregators and middlemen, who earn exorbitant profits by jacking the retail price through hoarding, monopolizing and creating artificial shortages/supply constraints.

Farming as such is the most profitable business (and tax free too), provided you have economies of scale to play with. I have personally met farmers who run big farms and earn crores of tax free income every year.

Exploitation of Farmers is not a "Noble" cause

Its exploitation disguised as "noble cause" to subsidies the URBAN POWERS.

Farmers are FORCED to sell their products dirt cheap because we import SUBSIDIZED food grains from Foreign nations who's Farmers make money due to Govt. subsidies and Existing INFRASTRUCTURE.

STOP Import of food grains and watch the Farmer become RICH overnight while urban Indian like you cry "INFLATION"

If you want consider irrigation management the same as water management it is fine with me. In India Irrigation is strictly watering the farmland. It does not deal with potential outcomes - keeping the land uncultivated, not growing certain crops etc.

Farming has its limitations. You cannot buy farmland in any village in India. There are caste, religion and linguistic restrictions. The size of farms is limited by land ceiling acts. There is petty politics in many villages that limit the potential of some farms

Your point about price control is noted. A lot of urban folks cannot afford food unless it is subsidized. If you allow farmers to charge "market" prices this is what happen. Middleman will enter the business. A lot of farmers will still be poor. It happened in the past. It will happen in the future.

Government buys wheat. millions of tonnes rot in warehouses

Irrigation is creating sustainable water bodies. For farming and for public and private use.

I am aware of the politics of the desperate and the needy. IT takes many form like caste, "witch" burning, controlling sale of land, access to water etc.

Its called "LACK OF OPPORTUNITY". This is what denial of equal opportunity looks like. Its nor pretty.

Middlemen entered the business because during British time farmers were not allowed to sell their produce to the highest bidders. They HAD to sell their produce to designated Buyers. (License Raj) .THAT is how the british controlled the Indians.
This just continued during the Pseudo British rule of the CONgress.

You stop cheap import and dumping of food grains into India and introduce Free Market and let demand match the supply and watch the Indian farmer grow rich.

 

[footmarks]

Exploitation of Farmers is not a "Noble" cause

Its exploitation disguised as "noble cause" to subsidies the URBAN POWERS.

Farmers are FORCED to sell their products dirt cheap because we import SUBSIDIZED food grains from Foreign nations who's Farmers make money due to Govt. subsidies and Existing INFRASTRUCTURE.

STOP Import of food grains and watch the Farmer become RICH overnight while urban Indian like you cry "INFLATION"

You don't know me. Don't try to brand me with what I am not. I have done bachelors in Agriculture and management post graduate degree in agribusiness. I have worked in paddy and wheat fields, raised crops on my own. Sowing, transplanting, irrigation, ploughing, fertilizer and pesticide/herbicide use - have done all. I have spend time/days in local mandis at 3AM in the morning to see how farmers are looted by traders.

Farmers are FORCED to sell their produce cheap because (a) there is no warehousing/cold storage infrastructure available for them to sell when they get good price and hence have to sell as early as possible after harvesting at whatever prices available to minimize wastage losses (agri produce is perishable), & (b) traders sitting in local mandis are monopolistic, paying minimum to farmers and selling further at high prices. Import of food is only done to compensate for the gap between demand and supply. But yes, traders use that too to further reduce the prices they pay to farmers. Subsidy is not a long term solution, just a stop-gap arrangement. Middlemen and lack of warehousing/cold sotrage and supply chain are the main problem

 

[The_Showstopper]

@The_Showstopper
@takeiteasy
this guy has a point. Not all Modi's policies are absolute failures. they may have failed in their primary objectives, but they certainly had brought forward some good things too.
@Nilgiri Anna, process of hay making is quite old. it was done by the opposition in the country since its birth. who do you think made the most hay till date ?

The only thing that came out of this demonitization is the increase of tax collection. If the tax collection increase was the intention then there were other ways to do so without disrupting the economy. This was more of a "tukka" out of demonitization and his Bhakts are harping over it. Does the end justify the means?

No I don't intend to say all his policies are absolute failures. Yes there are some good decisions which could help our economy.

 

[footmarks]

The only thing that came out of this demonitization is the increase of tax collection. If the tax collection increase was the intention then there were other ways to do so without disrupting the economy. This was more of a "tukka" out of demonitization and his Bhakts are harping over it. Does the end justify the means?

No I don't intend to say all his policies are absolute failures. Yes there are some good decisions which could help our economy.

And what are these other ways? What demonetization did (an I am not a supporter of demonetization too, but few things are very obvious now, so just stating) is bring out the fear of being caught by law among the money hoarders. You can't keep your earnings in cash anymore (it's risky), you have to scout for new avenues to park illegal money or just have to pay tax and be happy. And what are the new avenues available? gold and real estate, the traditional ones are under serious watch by govt.

But sure, demonetization had some serious bad affects on general public. Not during those 2 months, but as an aftermath of it. with cash not being the primary source of trade anymore, the "cost" of tax by the traders are being transferred to the end customers (read inflation).

 

[Bibo]

You don't know me. Don't try to brand me with what I am not. I have done bachelors in Agriculture and management post graduate degree in agribusiness. I have worked in paddy and wheat fields, raised crops on my own. Sowing, transplanting, irrigation, ploughing, fertilizer and pesticide/herbicide use - have done all. I have spend time/days in local mandis at 3AM in the morning to see how farmers are looted by traders.

Farmers are FORCED to sell their produce cheap because (a) there is no warehousing/cold storage infrastructure available for them to sell when they get good price and hence have to sell as early as possible after harvesting at whatever prices available to minimize wastage losses (agri produce is perishable), & (b) traders sitting in local mandis are monopolistic, paying minimum to farmers and selling further at high prices. Import of food is only done to compensate for the gap between demand and supply. But yes, traders use that too to further reduce the prices they pay to farmers. Subsidy is not a long term solution, just a stop-gap arrangement. Middlemen and lack of warehousing/cold sotrage and supply chain are the main problem

I agree that lack of warehousing and storage facility is a important factor that determines farmer economic health.

You make easy credit available and watch the farmer cooperative build their own warehouse and flush out the middle men.

THIS is the growth of Non Performing assets during Raghuram Rajan's tenure in RBI (Hero of the "secular" middle class)

These are not Farmer loans, but loans to Large Industrial houses.

Farmers are starved for water, credit and basic Infrastructure and we build our lives on the backs of their misery while abusing them in the same breath.


Subside is not the problem. LACK OF CREDIT is the problem.

And what are these other ways? What demonetization did (an I am not a supporter of demonetization too, but few things are very obvious now, so just stating) is bring out the fear of being caught by law among the money hoarders. You can't keep your earnings in cash anymore (it's risky), you have to scout for new avenues to park illegal money or just have to pay tax and be happy. And what are the new avenues available? gold and real estate, the traditional ones are under serious watch by govt.

But sure, demonetization had some serious bad affects on general public. Not during those 2 months, but as an aftermath of it. with cash not being the primary source of trade anymore, the "cost" of tax by the traders are being transferred to the end customers (read inflation).

PRIMARY Job of Demonetization was to put and end to FAKE CURRENCY by Pakistan.

Don't miss the forest for the trees.

 

[footmarks]

I agree that lack of warehousing and storage facility is a important factor that determines farmer economic health.

You make easy credit available and watch the farmer cooperative build their own warehouse and flush out the middle men.

THIS is the growth of Non Performing assets during Raghuram Rajan's tenure in RBI (Hero of the "secular" middle class)

These are not Farmer loans, but loans to Large Industrial houses.

Farmers are starved for water, credit and basic Infrastructure and we build our lives on the backs of their misery while abusing them in the same breath.


Subside is not the problem. LACK OF CREDIT is the problem.

Rise in NPA does not happen during rajan's tenure. Please educate yourself. Rajan forced the banks to change their accounting practice of showing bad-loans as accounts receivables (and hence on the asset side of balance sheet) while actually these bad loans had long become a liability.

And I have experienced both sides - farmers and corporations. Credit is not a problem, problem is credibility. For banks, farming loan is a loan to business. they check the viability of the business they fund, the credit worthiness of the loan takers and collaterals available to minimize the risk. And farmers are no fools themselves, bear in mind. majority of farmers can repay their loans, but choose not to - because farm loan is waived off usually.

Farmer cooperatives are difficult to sustain, for various political, economic, cultural and social reasons. Companies like Pepsico do that - forging contracts with farmers to produce chips-grade potatoes. And it's a real pain for them to manage close to a lakh individual farmers (imagine 1 lakh individual contracts need to be signed) for supply of potatoes which is less than what they source from just 2 farmers in UAE.

 

[Jacob Martin]

whatever our "dear leader" does, it will be for the benefit of our country.
any contrary views will be dealth with sedition laws, ink facing, slurs or the very elusive one way ticket to pakistan.
times are changing. colleagues in my office, who worshipped our "dear leader" and even believed his "feacal matter" is worth more than gold are realising where we are headed.

Yeah. Same here. I am getting similar feedback from people I know. The problem is, he is not concerned with us, He is playing to the audience that believes that each day when you read about cow vigilantism, love jihad or some other nonsense is proof that the government is "working".

 

[Bibo]

Rise in NPA does not happen during rajan's tenure. Please educate yourself. Rajan forced the banks to change their accounting practice of showing bad-loans as accounts receivables (and hence on the asset side of balance sheet) while actually these bad loans had long become a liability.

And I have experienced both sides - farmers and corporations. Credit is not a problem, problem is credibility. For banks, farming loan is a loan to business. they check the viability of the business they fund, the credit worthiness of the loan takers and collaterals available to minimize the risk. And farmers are no fools themselves, bear in mind. majority of farmers can repay their loans, but choose not to - because farm loan is waived off usually.

Farmer cooperatives are difficult to sustain, for various political, economic, cultural and social reasons. Companies like Pepsico do that - forging contracts with farmers to produce chips-grade potatoes. And it's a real pain for them to manage close to a lakh individual farmers (imagine 1 lakh individual contracts need to be signed) for supply of potatoes which is less than what they source from just 2 farmers in UAE.

Raghuram Rajan introduced the change only in Dec. 2015. (After Modi came to power), not in 2013 when he became the governor of RBI.

THIS is the growth of NPA during HIS TERM. See how the NPA SHOOT UP ? Most of them by Public sector banks who are directly guided by the RBI.

Govt. is required to underwrite cheap credit to farmers to improve their credibility. Availability of CHEAP CREDIT will eliminate the need for Loan waiver along with raising the MSP to reflect parity with govt. Pay Commission.

THEN watch the Farmer grow self sufficient.

Farmer cooperatives are difficult to sustain because Farming is HIGH RISK business in India, unlike Milk production. Provide IRRIGATION to farmer and ensure cheap credit and watch the cooperative become self sufficient.

Yeah. Same here. I am getting similar feedback from people I know. The problem is, he is not concerned with us, He is playing to the audience that believes that each day when you read about cow vigilantism, love jihad or some other nonsense is proof that the government is "working".

You mean the audience who voted for him ?

Next time try voting for him before expecting him to do something for you

 

[footmarks]

I will reiterate - NPA DID NOT rise suddenly, NPA's were hidden as account receivables by banks for a long time. Hiding a problem does not solve it. Now that banks are FORCED to disclose them as NPA, they are working on it to reduce the losses. Liquidating assets under collateral of loan defaulters is one such step in that direction. You are not willing to give credit to govt for good policies and asking about credit to farmers!

And credit is available at cheap prices to the farmers (check with any bank about interest rates on personal loans, loans to businesses and loan to "priority sector"). Underwriting loan is a backward step when govt is fully waiving it off, isn't it? But are farmers getting richer by it?

Millions are spent by govt on extension programs to teach farmers about good farming practices, irrigation and water management, crop diversification, soil management and crop protection. Even more is spent by private companies. Why are farmers reluctant to change? Because they don't treat farming as a business. Most of them has too small land holding to earn any profitable income, still they are reluctant to pool land and form cooperatives. Farming risk is inversely proportional to land size. Once you pool land, you can pool other resources, can distribute costs and earn ability to negotiate on selling price.

As things stand today, majority of small farmers can never become self-sufficient. basic economics and basic business sense will tell you that.

 

[wiseone2]

Exploitation of Farmers is not a "Noble" cause

Its exploitation disguised as "noble cause" to subsidies the URBAN POWERS.

Farmers are FORCED to sell their products dirt cheap because we import SUBSIDIZED food grains from Foreign nations who's Farmers make money due to Govt. subsidies and Existing INFRASTRUCTURE.

STOP Import of food grains and watch the Farmer become RICH overnight while urban Indian like you cry "INFLATION"




Irrigation is creating sustainable water bodies. For farming and for public and private use.

I am aware of the politics of the desperate and the needy. IT takes many form like caste, "witch" burning, controlling sale of land, access to water etc.

Its called "LACK OF OPPORTUNITY". This is what denial of equal opportunity looks like. Its nor pretty.

Middlemen entered the business because during British time farmers were not allowed to sell their produce to the highest bidders. They HAD to sell their produce to designated Buyers. (License Raj) .THAT is how the british controlled the Indians.
This just continued during the Pseudo British rule of the CONgress.

You stop cheap import and dumping of food grains into India and introduce Free Market and let demand match the supply and watch the Indian farmer grow rich.

why should imports be completely stopped ?? now nothing prevents farmer from selling to the highest bidder. The nature of the process (selling to the highest bidder) creates a new occupation. One of my ancestors decided he was going to setup a rice shop in the town. He found out it was more profitable than growing rice.

Getting back to the original post: 100 extra farmers dying in a state of 65 million is not a cause of alarm. I feel sorry for the 100 families. Behind each suicide is a case of bad luck or bad management

 

[Bibo]

I will reiterate - NPA DID NOT rise suddenly, NPA's were hidden as account receivables by banks for a long time. Hiding a problem does not solve it. Now that banks are FORCED to disclose them as NPA, they are working on it to reduce the losses. Liquidating assets under collateral of loan defaulters is one such step in that direction. You are not willing to give credit to govt for good policies and asking about credit to farmers!

And credit is available at cheap prices to the farmers (check with any bank about interest rates on personal loans, loans to businesses and loan to "priority sector"). Underwriting loan is a backward step when govt is fully waiving it off, isn't it? But are farmers getting richer by it?

Millions are spent by govt on extension programs to teach farmers about good farming practices, irrigation and water management, crop diversification, soil management and crop protection. Even more is spent by private companies. Why are farmers reluctant to change? Because they don't treat farming as a business. Most of them has too small land holding to earn any profitable income, still they are reluctant to pool land and form cooperatives. Farming risk is inversely proportional to land size. Once you pool land, you can pool other resources, can distribute costs and earn ability to negotiate on selling price.

As things stand today, majority of small farmers can never become self-sufficient. basic economics and basic business sense will tell you that.

Do you even know what a "Agricultural Produce Market Committee" is ?

Farmers DO NOT HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SELL THEIR PRODUCE TO ANYONE THEY WANT.

Have HAVE to sell their produce to "authorized" Broker / Middle men in "authorized" Mandi's.

They CANNOT sell it directly to supermarkets. They cannot store it in warehouses unless its "authorized" by the APMC.

The Govt has CREATED THESE Middle men .............. you want to give credit to the govt. for this ? Do so by all means .

Rajan forced the banks to disclose the NPA's but he did nothing to reduce interest rates and make credit available for the needy. All he did was bring transparency when he was forced to by the Modi govt. Not before.

Why would a Farmer treat farming as a business when its not profitable for him ? He does it because its probably the only thing he knows how and that gives him dignity.

Make farming profitable, reduce cost and increase price of produce.

why should imports be completely stopped ?? now nothing prevents farmer from selling to the highest bidder. The nature of the process (selling to the highest bidder) creates a new occupation. One of my ancestors decided he was going to setup a rice shop in the town. He found out it was more profitable than growing rice.

Getting back to the original post: 100 extra farmers dying in a state of 65 million is not a cause of alarm. I feel sorry for the 100 families. Behind each suicide is a case of bad luck or bad management

LOL.... read up on APMC and their monopoly. You are talking about things you have no idea about.

Selling rice IS more profitable than growing rice .......... and you can thank the APMC for that. Thank the MSP for that.

Farming is a HIGH RISK sector in India. Only the desperate do it because they don't have any other choice. And for that they get exploited for their efforts at feeding us.

 

[footmarks]

Do you even know what a "Agricultural Produce Market Committee" is ?

Farmers DO NOT HAVE THE FREEDOM TO SELL THEIR PRODUCE TO ANYONE THEY WANT.

Have HAVE to sell their produce to "authorized" Broker / Middle men in "authorized" Mandi's.

They CANNOT sell it directly to supermarkets. They cannot store it in warehouses unless its "authorized" by the APMC.

The Govt has CREATED THESE Middle men .............. you want to give credit to the govt. for this ? Do so by all means .

Rajan forced the banks to disclose the NPA's but he did nothing to reduce interest rates and make credit available for the needy. All he did was bring transparency when he was forced to by the Modi govt. Not before.

Why would a Farmer treat farming as a business when its not profitable for him ? He does it because its probably the only thing he knows how and that gives him dignity.

Make farming profitable, reduce cost and increase price of produce.

Bro, trust me, I know APMC very well. Individual farmers cannot sell directly, but contract farming can be done. Plus, farmer cooperatives CAN sell to supermarkets or whoever they want to under APMC act. Read the law first. The original intent of APMC act was to create a marketplace for farmers/sellers and buyers to trade. Overtime, just like license raj, it became a hub of malpractices. And the trader lobby today is so strong, they do not allow govt to scrap APMC act (agriculture being a state subject further make it difficult. It is politically not expandable). It's this lobby that resists FDI in modern retail.

 

[Bibo]

Bro, trust me, I know APMC very well. Individual farmers cannot sell directly, but contract farming can be done. Plus, farmer cooperatives CAN sell to supermarkets or whoever they want to under APMC act. Read the law first. The original intent of APMC act was to create a marketplace for farmers/sellers and buyers to trade. Overtime, just like license raj, it became a hub of malpractices. And the trader lobby today is so strong, they do not allow govt to scrap APMC act (agriculture being a state subject further make it difficult. It is politically not expandable). It's this lobby that resists FDI in modern retail.

Contract farming turns the farmer into a bonded labor. No independent farmer wants that.

The trade restrictions in fruits and vegetables are such that it is sometimes easier for traders to import goods from abroad than purchase the same from a neighbouring state.

APMC rules mandate that the sale or purchase of agricultural commodities notified under it are to be carried out in specified areas. In India, agricultural marketing is a state subject and that brings its own restrictions on trade.

If you want free trade in Agriculture, we need a separate law like GST to be passed in parliament.

BTW Bihar scrapped the APMC act. Other states however still have it.