Perpetually abroad, Modi loses sight of the grassroots mauled by demonetization

[jetray]

The major problem as of now is the fact that a bunch of people have assumed the responsibility of defending the government on the claim that they are Nationalist. They will never admit that they love the government because it is a Hindu government. So to them, the Hindu government must be protected at all costs, even if it takes the country down the drain.​

It just so happens that we have a secular Constitution. And it is no minor issue. Secularism is as fundamental and non-negotiable as any aspect of the Constitution. So while we have a government which has de jure legitimacy, it is de facto illegitimate.

It is the prerogative of anyone who respects our Constitution to oppose the government by lawful means.

First you need to separate "hindu" alias communal politics from economics. When you mix both economics & religion your arguments are no better than a rabid mullah's ranting.

Nation building is not an easy task and it will take time. The results will not be immediate but years down the lane.
Govt has already brought the rule that no transaction worth more than 50k will be allowed without linking to aadhar. Which is a good rule to identify the tax evaders.

ppl like you who crib as if farmers lived in a paradise during congressi regime is ridiculous. congressi regime dint even have guts to prosecute a corrupt rogues like mayawati or laloo all they were interested in looting the country.

LOL...such facepalm these "articles".

Lets take on just one of their claims with facts:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ng-up-26-2-till-date/articleshow/59181210.cms

Didn't tax base also increase by like 9 million people?:

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/WR...tisation-effect-91-million-new-taxpayers.html

As for swarajya magazine, it leans pro-modi (as a platform)....does not mean all its articles are quality and neither are all their authors pro-modi or even neutral. Similar to how there is a sizeable amount of Trump hate on Fox news.

Let's have a look at this particular author's record:

https://swarajyamag.com/author/17505/r-jagannathan

Yes clearly a staunch Modi supporter that has suddenly shifted right? I am not even going to bother with the OP article and author.

All I will say is it's seriously laughable that people are already "tallying" up pros and cons (from their skewed analysis) when the real pros are much more long term than the cons. Basically they have realised this is the window to try make the most anti-modi anti-BJP hay....because hey what else can one do after what happened in UP.....which was supposed to be the massive defeat for BJP and Modi on the topic of demonetisation.

yeah most of the ppl mix issues with ppl. All they do is keep cribbing about hindutva...etc What does economic polices have do with religion? They keep cribbing that economic growth is not happening as if under congress we had achieved 100% growth. Congressi regime hardly had the guts to take any hard decision.

 

[Nilgiri]

Look at all the bad news that continues to pour in because of Modi mismanagement:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ng-in-india-current-account-may-support-rupee

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...share&utm_campaign=socialsharebutton&from=mdr

 

[jetray]

Look at all the bad news that continues to pour in because of Modi mismanagement:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ng-in-india-current-account-may-support-rupee

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...share&utm_campaign=socialsharebutton&from=mdr

Seems our libtards also missed the news that switzerland will start sharing info about Indians holding account in swiss banks. Which our congressi regime never had the guts to ask for or deliberately dint ask for.

 

[Jacob Martin]

What is your definition of the word secular? Why do you believe BJP is not secular?

We live in funny times where the party which wants Uniform Civil Code (same laws for everyone , irrespective of religion) is called as communal and those who oppose UCC are seculars.

The definition of secularism is that govt will not interfere with anyone on basis of religion. Having different laws as per different religions is diametrically opposite of secularism.

I want you to give me a clear cut answer and explanation. How is UCC NOT secular? If UCC is communal then are Europe and US - which have UCC communal too?

The problem is that the so called thekedars of secularim have twisted the meaning of the word to suit their own agenda and vote banks. Maybe this is why we call them "sickular"

If you belieeve that BJP is not secular for XYZ reason and congress and others are not secular for opposing UCC or pandering to the mullah brigade in Shah Bano case even after the Supreme Court verdict then my contention is that NONE of the parties in India follow secularism so no one has the right to act holier than thou and call BJP as communal

Taking ONE aspect of public life (Muslim personal law) and turning it into the touchstone of secularism is erroneous. Let me explain why.

First, it does not exculpate the BJP of its other misdeeds. Some of these are -

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots.
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries.
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue.
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections.
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter.
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party.
10) Ideological slavery to RSS.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense.
12) Yogi Aadityanath.
13) Uma Bharti.
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru.
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists.

This is just an indicative list. But it shall suffice to drive home the point. Mind you, I have only mentioned those aspects that pertain to secularism, and not the totality of why BJP is such a toxic party. That list is much more troublesome, as it would include economic mismanagement, systematic erosion of institutions and complete polarization of society along identity and political lines.

Second, as far is Uniform Civil Code is concerned, it is yet another toxic and polarizing gimmick. The aim is very evidently to appease RSS and the Hindutva vote bank. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the condition of Hindu women in BIMARU states is as bad as within the Muslim community. So what has the government done for them?

Fact of the matter is, any real concern for women's rights within civil laws, such as marriage and inheritance, is not a subject matter of legislation. One has to begin by identifying as to why those who fall within the ambit of desirable laws are not getting what those laws set out to achieve. Why doesn't the government start with ensuring that there is a total restructuring whereby marriage and inheritance laws are enforced, do that vulnerable women can actually have access to justice?

The reason is clear as daylight - a bunch if oversmart North Indian Men have figured out that they can have their cake and eat it too. They can score a political victory in the race for votes, while retaining the ground reality whereby the situation of Hindu women in poorer communities remains as it is.

This entire Civil Code nonsense is a canard. The government would be better advised to improve the condition of women who it seems are already "alleviated" by just laws and ensure that they get that the law says. Such chicanry fools no one.

First you need to separate "hindu" alias communal politics from economics. When you mix both economics & religion your arguments are no better than a rabid mullah's ranting.

Since nowhere in my post did I do what you have alleged, that means you are only suitable for one thing...
.
..
...
....
IGNORE!!!

 

[Kdpreddy]

The jury on demonetization is out, Poor loved it - Middle-class didn't mind it - Rich mostly remained unaffected. There has been some visible benefits, some visible loses. Overall India didn't mind, only Modi-haters are still jumping up and down and unable to digest how India supported Modi even after seeing BJP win 325 seats in UP (one of the most poorest states of India).

The worst part is the jokers buying their own hype about the failed Demonetization.
Still waiting to meet some one who is affected by this in person though. I know few corrupt people who have been taken to cleaners by having to pay nearly 50% to convert their money into white but they won't admit it.

Farmers being affected is the biggest joke around. This is the part of the paid narrative by the Italian mafia to get on the right side of farmers.

 

[Kdpreddy]

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots.
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries.
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue.
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections.
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter.
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party.
10) Ideological slavery to RSS.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense.
12) Yogi Aadityanath.
13) Uma Bharti.
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru.
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists.

1) Yup, Godhra Never happened. the judges were buffoons to convict bunch of Muslims for burning down the train full of Hindus!
2) Christian missionaries are the one perpetuating violence against Hindus. We all remember how a nun was raped in WB and all blamed Hindus. When the culprits were caught and revealed as Muslims, it seems to be some how OK. The debate on this was going on for 2 months and suddenly when muslim angle was revealed, all quiet. Btw, do u know where the raped nun now is?
3) It was & is Ram mandir. The courts have already given judgement. You don't believe in history & courts and keep calling it Babri Masjid! Yet, u want us to take you seriously.
4) You mean muslims should be allowed to steal cows and eat them? Any reason why that should be allowed?

5) You mean cattle smugglers? we all know the reality.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...le-escaping/story-7LdGcoqb8ZpdQuXEIEA1LO.html
6) Which party are u talking about? Perhaps you have forgotten you fav PM MMS saying muslims have first right on all resources in India. Wonder if it was polarizing enough. Or spending hundreds of crores on iftar but not a rupee on Holi or Diwali. I can go on but you get the picture.
7) Are you implying Muslims do Illegal businesses & Cattle smuggling? A muslim can go to a farmer and buy cattle even now. Who is now lying and polarizing.
8) Now the BOZO has a problem with democracy Hey dumbo, know the composition of US senate? Or may be UK Assembly? or may be you want to look at how many non-christian chancellors Germany has had until now. This is now getting hilariously stupid
9) Seriously, please stop joking. I can't believe an educated person is questioning democracy. Oh wait, the left morons believe in democracy ONLY WHEN THEY ARE IN POWER, right? We all see the crying happening in US after the left lost elections.
10) As opposed to ideological slavery of all other parties to Islam & Christianity?
11) So, in point number 2, you were crying about Christian Missionaries being targeted and in point number 11, you don't want Hindus to expand their religion? Oh, the duplicity of Christian left
12) He is CM of UP and is doing exceptionally well from all accounts. he will be PM of India in a decade.
13) Well, you got one point right. She is a moron and should be sacked.
14) As opposed to Christians & Muslims who get appointed to Hindu temple administration bodies? Or Leftists getting appointed to ALL statutory bodies until now? May be you are starting to believe in your own perverted mind that Hindus don't belong in India or we don't have any rights. sheesh, you don't even want Hindus propagating our religion inside India. HOW DUPLICITOUS OF YOU.
15) As opposed to having 100% of our history books on Akbar & babar who are not even Indians? The Mauryas, Maraths and Guptas have ruled longer than Mughals before and after them and yet they are not even mentioned in our text books. Any reason why Jesus who is not born in india is mentioned in Indian text books? Is Shivaji mentioned in text books of USA or Saudi or Israel?
16) Love Jihad was raised by your Christian bodies in kerala, agreed by a bench of kerala Hight court where both judges were Christians. Perhaps you should get your facts right.
17) As opposed to Hindu ideologues being killed in larger numbers all over India? Give me your precious logic of how a rationalist murder is more important than a RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal person's murder? Know what left is doing to hindu groups in Kerala? Both are abhorrent but your cherry picking one group and giving a passe on Hindus getting killed in much larger number is pathetic.
18) LOL. This has to be the biggest joke in all your points. These so called seculars are calling for breaking India, supporting terrorists, supporting Maoists, insulting Durga, Insulting soldiers...I can go on. BUT if you are thinking these self proclaimed seculars should get a free pass on their comments just because they claim to be secular - well, that's not how democracies work. Yeah, in China, sure, your thinking is spot on
19) You mean media which supports Yakub, Buhran & insults our military repeatedly? Or perhaps you are referring to Nidhi, who managed miracles by turning a cow cut in the streets of Kerala first into a Buffalo and then into an OX.
20) ABVP doing hooliganism?! Second biggest joke in all your points . See point number 18 for all things done by YOUR SECULAR STUDENT ORGS all over India. Perhaps you do know kerala student politics right? Check them out
21) You mean only Hindu leaning figures need to be vilified? Let me know why, if Savarkar can be dissected and commented on, why not Gandhi or Nehru? YOU ARE THE SAME PROPONENT OF FOE & SPEECH, muzzling FOE & Speech of Hindus because you don't like it!! How pathetic & duplicitous. Typical leftists, now retreat to your safe space.
22) The only people insulting any religion in India are the Hindu haters. You call Durga maa as a prostitute, you berate our gods, you destroy our temples and build mosques on them. You cut cows to spite us. You provide all facilities to Muslims on their festivals and give a boot to Hindus. You give control of Hindu temples to Muslims & Christians. Well, the list of non-secular things your side has been doing to Hindus goes back for more than thousand years. You may be wilfully blind to history and believe in drug addled moron Akbar being a noble king but we do know the truth, right?

Now, run to your safe space and pretend the spanking did not happen

 

[Jacob Martin]

1) Yup, Godhra Never happened. the judges were buffoons to convict bunch of Muslims for burning down the train full of Hindus!
2) Christian missionaries are the one perpetuating violence against Hindus. We all remember how a nun was raped in WB and all blamed Hindus. When the culprits were caught and revealed as Muslims, it seems to be some how OK. The debate on this was going on for 2 months and suddenly when muslim angle was revealed, all quiet. Btw, do u know where the raped nun now is?
3) It was & is Ram mandir. The courts have already given judgement. You don't believe in history & courts and keep calling it Babri Masjid! Yet, u want us to take you seriously.
4) You mean muslims should be allowed to steal cows and eat them? Any reason why that should be allowed?

5) You mean cattle smugglers? we all know the reality.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...le-escaping/story-7LdGcoqb8ZpdQuXEIEA1LO.html
6) Which party are u talking about? Perhaps you have forgotten you fav PM MMS saying muslims have first right on all resources in India. Wonder if it was polarizing enough. Or spending hundreds of crores on iftar but not a rupee on Holi or Diwali. I can go on but you get the picture.
7) Are you implying Muslims do Illegal businesses & Cattle smuggling? A muslim can go to a farmer and buy cattle even now. Who is now lying and polarizing.
8) Now the BOZO has a problem with democracy Hey dumbo, know the composition of US senate? Or may be UK Assembly? or may be you want to look at how many non-christian chancellors Germany has had until now. This is now getting hilariously stupid
9) Seriously, please stop joking. I can't believe an educated person is questioning democracy. Oh wait, the left morons believe in democracy ONLY WHEN THEY ARE IN POWER, right? We all see the crying happening in US after the left lost elections.
10) As opposed to ideological slavery of all other parties to Islam & Christianity?
11) So, in point number 2, you were crying about Christian Missionaries being targeted and in point number 11, you don't want Hindus to expand their religion? Oh, the duplicity of Christian left
12) He is CM of UP and is doing exceptionally well from all accounts. he will be PM of India in a decade.
13) Well, you got one point right. She is a moron and should be sacked.
14) As opposed to Christians & Muslims who get appointed to Hindu temple administration bodies? Or Leftists getting appointed to ALL statutory bodies until now? May be you are starting to believe in your own perverted mind that Hindus don't belong in India or we don't have any rights. sheesh, you don't even want Hindus propagating our religion inside India. HOW DUPLICITOUS OF YOU.
15) As opposed to having 100% of our history books on Akbar & babar who are not even Indians? The Mauryas, Maraths and Guptas have ruled longer than Mughals before and after them and yet they are not even mentioned in our text books. Any reason why Jesus who is not born in india is mentioned in Indian text books? Is Shivaji mentioned in text books of USA or Saudi or Israel?
16) Love Jihad was raised by your Christian bodies in kerala, agreed by a bench of kerala Hight court where both judges were Christians. Perhaps you should get your facts right.
17) As opposed to Hindu ideologues being killed in larger numbers all over India? Give me your precious logic of how a rationalist murder is more important than a RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal person's murder? Know what left is doing to hindu groups in Kerala? Both are abhorrent but your cherry picking one group and giving a passe on Hindus getting killed in much larger number is pathetic.
18) LOL. This has to be the biggest joke in all your points. These so called seculars are calling for breaking India, supporting terrorists, supporting Maoists, insulting Durga, Insulting soldiers...I can go on. BUT if you are thinking these self proclaimed seculars should get a free pass on their comments just because they claim to be secular - well, that's not how democracies work. Yeah, in China, sure, your thinking is spot on
19) You mean media which supports Yakub, Buhran & insults our military repeatedly? Or perhaps you are referring to Nidhi, who managed miracles by turning a cow cut in the streets of Kerala first into a Buffalo and then into an OX.
20) ABVP doing hooliganism?! Second biggest joke in all your points . See point number 18 for all things done by YOUR SECULAR STUDENT ORGS all over India. Perhaps you do know kerala student politics right? Check them out
21) You mean only Hindu leaning figures need to be vilified? Let me know why, if Savarkar can be dissected and commented on, why not Gandhi or Nehru? YOU ARE THE SAME PROPONENT OF FOE & SPEECH, muzzling FOE & Speech of Hindus because you don't like it!! How pathetic & duplicitous. Typical leftists, now retreat to your safe space.
22) The only people insulting any religion in India are the Hindu haters. You call Durga maa as a prostitute, you berate our gods, you destroy our temples and build mosques on them. You cut cows to spite us. You provide all facilities to Muslims on their festivals and give a boot to Hindus. You give control of Hindu temples to Muslims & Christians. Well, the list of non-secular things your side has been doing to Hindus goes back for more than thousand years. You may be wilfully blind to history and believe in drug addled moron Akbar being a noble king but we do know the truth, right?

Now, run to your safe space and pretend the spanking did not happen

Wow.... awesome! For your great achievement in misdirection and propaganda, you get a reward!
.
..
...
Naah, don't be impatient...
....
.....
Wait it's almost there...
......
IGNORE!!!

 

[Kdpreddy]

Wow.... awesome! For your great achievement in misdirection and propaganda, you get a reward!
.
..
...
Naah, don't be impatient...
....
.....
Wait it's almost there...
......
IGNORE!!!

You ignored me when you couldn't debate be.
I am crying now that a moron ignored me

Oh WAIT, it's almost there.

Still wait, it's almost there.

YOU ARE EXPOSED

 

[jetray]

Taking ONE aspect of public life (Muslim personal law) and turning it into the touchstone of secularism is erroneous. Let me explain why.

First, it does not exculpate the BJP of its other misdeeds. Some of these are -

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots.
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries.
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue.
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections.
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter.
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party.
10) Ideological slavery to RSS.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense.
12) Yogi Aadityanath.
13) Uma Bharti.
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru.
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists.

This is just an indicative list. But it shall suffice to drive home the point. Mind you, I have only mentioned those aspects that pertain to secularism, and not the totality of why BJP is such a toxic party. That list is much more troublesome, as it would include economic mismanagement, systematic erosion of institutions and complete polarization of society along identity and political lines.

Second, as far is Uniform Civil Code is concerned, it is yet another toxic and polarizing gimmick. The aim is very evidently to appease RSS and the Hindutva vote bank. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the condition of Hindu women in BIMARU states is as bad as within the Muslim community. So what has the government done for them?

Fact of the matter is, any real concern for women's rights within civil laws, such as marriage and inheritance, is not a subject matter of legislation. One has to begin by identifying as to why those who fall within the ambit of desirable laws are not getting what those laws set out to achieve. Why doesn't the government start with ensuring that there is a total restructuring whereby marriage and inheritance laws are enforced, do that vulnerable women can actually have access to justice?

The reason is clear as daylight - a bunch if oversmart North Indian Men have figured out that they can have their cake and eat it too. They can score a political victory in the race for votes, while retaining the ground reality whereby the situation of Hindu women in poorer communities remains as it is.

This entire Civil Code nonsense is a canard. The government would be better advised to improve the condition of women who it seems are already "alleviated" by just laws and ensure that they get that the law says. Such chicanry fools no one.



Since nowhere in my post did I do what you have alleged, that means you are only suitable for one thing...
.
..
...
....
IGNORE!!!

do you have compression problem?

I said keep religion & politics out of economics.

 

[Nilgiri]

I said keep religion & politics out of economics.

My friend, thats like trying to keep hydrogen and oxygen out of water. Economics can never be a theoretical unemotional science....especially for a developing country.

They tried it once with GOSPLAN, we all know the result.

 

[Soumitra]

Second, as far is Uniform Civil Code is concerned, it is yet another toxic and polarizing gimmick. The aim is very evidently to appease RSS and the Hindutva vote bank. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the condition of Hindu women in BIMARU states is as bad as within the Muslim community. So what has the government done for them?

Fact of the matter is, any real concern for women's rights within civil laws, such as marriage and inheritance, is not a subject matter of legislation. One has to begin by identifying as to why those who fall within the ambit of desirable laws are not getting what those laws set out to achieve. Why doesn't the government start with ensuring that there is a total restructuring whereby marriage and inheritance laws are enforced, do that vulnerable women can actually have access to justice?

The reason is clear as daylight - a bunch if oversmart North Indian Men have figured out that they can have their cake and eat it too. They can score a political victory in the race for votes, while retaining the ground reality whereby the situation of Hindu women in poorer communities remains as it is.

This entire Civil Code nonsense is a canard. The government would be better advised to improve the condition of women who it seems are already "alleviated" by just laws and ensure that they get that the law says. Such chicanry fools no one.

@Kdpreddy has already replied briliantly to your 22 point rant against the BJP so I wont talkabout that. And as is the case with you secularists - as soon as someone replies to you in your own coin you ignore him

Regarding UCC I asked you simple questions and instead of answering that you went on a rant on how North Indian Hindu males are playing votebank politics while hindu women are suffering blah blah blah.

I know, you know, and everyone else knows that BJP's motive in raising this is to get votes. Newsflash for you - BJP is a political party. Its raison d'être is to get votes so that it can form a govt. This is what political parties do in a democracy

I asked you some simple questions. I want simple yes/no answers. No ranting or beating about the bush.

1 Is uniform civil code (having same laws for all, irrespective of religion) compatible with secularism (govt will not discriminate against any person based on religion)?

2 Are European Countries and US which have UCC secular?

3 If a party opposes UCC and even ignores supreme court judgements is it secular?

4 Are there any truly secular parties in India?

PS I know you wont be able to give me answers to these questions and will put me on ignore but my objective here is to expose the hypocricy of your kind

 

[Jacob Martin]

@Kdpreddy has already replied briliantly to your 22 point rant against the BJP so I wont talkabout that. And as is the case with you secularists - as soon as someone replies to you in your own coin you ignore him

Regarding UCC I asked you simple questions and instead of answering that you went on a rant on how North Indian Hindu males are playing votebank politics while hindu women are suffering blah blah blah.

I know, you know, and everyone else knows that BJP's motive in raising this is to get votes. Newsflash for you - BJP is a political party. Its raison d'être is to get votes so that it can form a govt. This is what political parties do in a democracy

I asked you some simple questions. I want simple yes/no answers. No ranting or beating about the bush.

1 Is uniform civil code (having same laws for all, irrespective of religion) compatible with secularism (govt will not discriminate against any person based on religion)?

2 Are European Countries and US which have UCC secular?

3 If a party opposes UCC and even ignores supreme court judgements is it secular?

4 Are there any truly secular parties in India?

PS I know you wont be able to give me answers to these questions and will put me on ignore but my objective here is to expose the hypocricy of your kind

So you have no ideas that no one is stopped from having there own personal laws in Europe, for example, which is definitely more secular than India. The Islamic Sharia Council mediates marriage and divorce according to Muslim personal law in the UK. The only difference is that it is voluntary. And that is all the change that is required, unlike presently where if people want to submit to another law, they need to get married under a different Marriage Act.

I think you have a fundamental misconception about secularism, wherein you do not distinguish between separation of religion and state and freedom to profess and follow faith. Secularism does not mean that the state is blind to the existence of religion. There are a plethora of legislation on religion and religious bodies, including:

1) Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments Act
2) The Charitable and Religious Trusts Act
3) The Wakf Act
4) Amarnath Ji Shrine Act
5) Indian Succession Act
6) The Haj Committee Act...

...apart from relevant sections of various laws that deal with individual religious beliefs. Secularism does not mean steamrolling everyone into one shape. It is not my claim that a uniform civil code is incompatible with secularism. However, it is not a sine qua non. The same affect could be had (minus the element of coercion) by way of an amendment specifying that unless parties mutually consent, the pre-existing secular laws apply. Already, people are free to get married under The Special Marriage Act can avail of such provisions; all that is required is to make sure that it is not fore-closed at inception. But then that wouldn't serve vote bank politics, would it?

Perform a simple thought experiment. Under your definition of secularism, wouldn't it be absolutely required to do at least two things -

1) ban solicitation of marriages based on caste, which is a function of religion?
2) provide penal consequences for rejection of marriage proposal on grounds of caste by family?

Why haven't these been done yet? They are clearly discriminatory in nature. Because of precisely the reason I stated above, as it is a matter of personal choice that the state does not intrude upon. It is pretty easy to understand these concepts when the show is on the other foot. So basically, a bunch of North Indian Hindus found a win-win scenario - retain their own regressive, discriminatory and misogynistic practices, while targeting "the other". First ask your cow belt brothers to agitate for these two simple changes, which are compatible with secularism but not a necessity.

As for your certificate about the moron who replied to my earlier post, your DP tells me you would undoubtedly agree. I have no time for people who end a post by declaring victory for their position. In case you share the same understanding as that fellow, feel free to stay away and not quote me in future.

 

[Soumitra]

So you have no ideas that no one is stopped from having there own personal laws in Europe, for example, which is definitely more secular than India. The Islamic Sharia Council mediates marriage and divorce according to Muslim personal law in the UK. The only difference is that it is voluntary. And that is all the change that is required, unlike presently where if people want to submit to another law, they need to get married under a different Marriage Act.

The beauty of the internet is that a 5 second google search reveals a lot of things

From an official UK gov website https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267931/divorce.pdf

1.4 An extra judicial divorce (i.e. one that is granted by a religious body and not by a court of law) such as a Muslim Talaq or Greek Orthodox divorce, which was granted in this country before 1 January 1974, is acceptable only if the parties concerned were, at the date when the proceedings were instituted, domiciled in a country in which such a divorce would be accepted (see DOMICILE).

1.5 Extra-judicial divorces, which have been granted since 1 January 1974 in this country, are not valid.

I think you have a fundamental misconception about secularism, wherein you do not distinguish between separation of religion and state and freedom to profess and follow faith. Secularism does not mean that the state is blind to the existence of religion. There are a plethora of legislation on religion and religious bodies, including:

1) Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments Act
2) The Charitable and Religious Trusts Act
3) The Wakf Act
4) Amarnath Ji Shrine Act
5) Indian Succession Act
6) The Haj Committee Act...

Oh I am very clear what is the definition of secularism. You dont need to tell me that. the freedom to practive your religion is given under Article 15 and 25 of the Constitution.

Perform a simple thought experiment. Under your definition of secularism, wouldn't it be absolutely required to do at least two things -

1) ban solicitation of marriages based on caste, which is a function of religion?
2) provide penal consequences for rejection of marriage proposal on grounds of caste by family?

Oh I have no issues if caste is removed from the socielty. I totally advocate a casteless soceity. However what you are suggesting is a state coercing someone to get married against their will. If I dont want to get married to XYZ person the state should not force me to get married to her. I can have n number of reasons not to marry her. The state does not have the right to se whether my reasons are correct or not.

this is actually a bad analogy for triple talaq. By banning triple talaq the state is NOT forcing you to keep being married to a woman (which will be as bad as the state interfering in my choice of who I want to get married to). The state is just saying that you follow a proper procedure if you want to get a divorce. You should not say talaq talaq talaq just because she switched off the fan and be done with

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-mumbai-woman-switched-off-fan-got-triple-talaq-2453353

As for your certificate about the moron who replied to my earlier post, your DP tells me you would undoubtedly agree. I have no time for people who end a post by declaring victory for their position

I declared victory because I know your kind of people. You beat about the bush to try and obfuscate the situation and hope that the other person jut rolls over.

I had asked you four simple yes/no answers Then I said I know you will not be able to give me the answers. And I was right. You did not give me 4 simple yes/no answers so my declaration of victory was correct.

Still if you want I can re ask the questions. Four simple Yes/No answers. Tell the answer straight from your heart even if it betrays the facade of secularism

1 Is uniform civil code (having same laws for all, irrespective of religion) compatible with secularism (govt will not discriminate against any person based on religion)?

2 Are European Countries and US which have UCC secular?

3 If a party opposes UCC and even ignores supreme court judgements is it secular?

4 Are there any truly secular parties in India?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yes, mindless leftist propaganda. For pointing out -

1) demonetization was a disaster that wiped out sections if the agricultural community by disrupting sale of kharif crop

2) none of the purported benefits of demonetization have accrued so far as claimed. They have not even released the final tally of how much money was deposited in the banks

3) Make in India, Digital India, Skill India, Smart City India, Swachch Bharat India, and all these Jumlas have fetched nothing so far and are total failures

4) FDI numbers are dodgy as institutional investment in equity and unrealized pledges are lumped together with non-existent Greenfield projects

5) GDP numbers are dodgy, and even the RBI is steadily losing credibility

6) whatever growth has taken place is jobless in nature, in fact employment growth is lower than under previous government

7) as for the socio-political climate...well I will not even go into that

@baajey @The_Showstopper @takeiteasy

Let us spread more mindless propaganda to sully our lovely ruling party!!!

Source pls.

It just so happens that we have a secular Constitution.

That was a big mistake. In the (near) future either Dharmic people will correct it or cease to exist.

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots.
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries.
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue.
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections.
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter.
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party.
10) Ideological slavery to RSS.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense.
12) Yogi Aadityanath.
13) Uma Bharti.
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru.
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists.

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots. - Institutional support is needed to defend weak Hindus
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries. - Justice was done
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode. - Proud of it.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue. - Non issue/reap what you sow
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.- Non issue/reap what you sow
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections. - Brings honesty to the fore
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter. - - Non issue/reap what you sow
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership - WTF!
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party. - WTF!
10) Ideological slavery to RSS. - Not enough. More is needed.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense. - State sponsored conversion programs should be initiated from Christianity and Islam to any of the Indic faiths. Even atheism can be promoted.
12) Yogi Aadityanath. -
13) Uma Bharti. -
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies. - Excellent job.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states. - Not enough is done to remove the blatant falsehoods.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing. - More actions needs to be done.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists. - Sad that hate mongers were killed before being tried.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators. - There are no secular commentators in India.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media. - Nothing exists as such.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines. - Much needed.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru. - ROFL
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists. - Belongs in the trash can.

 

[Jacob Martin]

The beauty of the internet is that a 5 second google search reveals a lot of things

From an official UK gov website https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267931/divorce.pdf





Oh I am very clear what is the definition of secularism. You dont need to tell me that. the freedom to practive your religion is given under Article 15 and 25 of the Constitution.



Oh I have no issues if caste is removed from the socielty. I totally advocate a casteless soceity. However what you are suggesting is a state coercing someone to get married against their will. If I dont want to get married to XYZ person the state should not force me to get married to her. I can have n number of reasons not to marry her. The state does not have the right to se whether my reasons are correct or not.

this is actually a bad analogy for triple talaq. By banning triple talaq the state is NOT forcing you to keep being married to a woman (which will be as bad as the state interfering in my choice of who I want to get married to). The state is just saying that you follow a proper procedure if you want to get a divorce. You should not say talaq talaq talaq just because she switched off the fan and be done with

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-mumbai-woman-switched-off-fan-got-triple-talaq-2453353



I declared victory because I know your kind of people. You beat about the bush to try and obfuscate the situation and hope that the other person jut rolls over.

I had asked you four simple yes/no answers Then I said I know you will not be able to give me the answers. And I was right. You did not give me 4 simple yes/no answers so my declaration of victory was correct.

Still if you want I can re ask the questions. Four simple Yes/No answers. Tell the answer straight from your heart even if it betrays the facade of secularism

1 Is uniform civil code (having same laws for all, irrespective of religion) compatible with secularism (govt will not discriminate against any person based on religion)?

2 Are European Countries and US which have UCC secular?

3 If a party opposes UCC and even ignores supreme court judgements is it secular?

4 Are there any truly secular parties in India?

The part highlighted by you clearly shows that Muslim personal law can be voluntarily applied in UK. You are welcome to want abolition of caste while working on something else instead. And as for the point about declaring victory, it was not meant for you, it was meant for the poster you mentioned.

As to the points you repeatedly raise, the answers are all there in my post. You frame a question as you see fit, I answer it as I see fit. I will not play your game, will I?

And now, since you will undoubtedly have something still left to say, I will simply encapsulate my points :

1) believing that minorities have to compulsorily submit to non-religious personal laws is a fundamental misinterpretation of secularism. All Western, secular countries allow so by mutual consent.
2) The element of mutual consent can be imputed by merely making an amendment to existing law.
3) The reason we are discussing Uniform Code instead is because the ruling party wants to play vote bank politics.
4) Instead of preparing the groundwork by improving justice delivery to women in general, which has endured that Hindus follow their personal law and totally ignore anything else in most cases, the government is targeting the personal laws of Muslims instead.
5) Also, if the government is so keen on the desirability of secularism, they must start with eradication of casteism in everyday practice by making specific legislation such as "No cast-based ads in newspaper Act" and "No rejection of marriage proposal based on caste Act".
6) Shifting the debate about how Muslims treat women, instead of focusing on how the majority community equally deprives women of their rights, represents the malice and venality with which this government is ruling, and its cheerleaders are poster children for moral bankruptcy.

Source pls.

The article that is the subject matter of the thread.

That was a big mistake. In the (near) future either Dharmic people will correct it or cease to exist.

Either deliberately or out of malice, you are conflating the religion with its adherents. Being irreligious, I would love it if the religion ceases to exist. The people will still remain and will be better humans for it.

1) Role in anti-Muslim riots. - Institutional support is needed to defend weak Hindus
2) Role in violence and intimidation against Christian Missionaries. - Justice was done
3) Role in Babri Masjid episode. - Proud of it.
4) Role in violence against individual Muslims on the beef issue. - Non issue/reap what you sow
5) Role in violence against cattle transporters.- Non issue/reap what you sow
6) Role in polarising communities while campaigning during elections. - Brings honesty to the fore
7) Executive action specifically targeted towards the livelihood of Muslims - demonetization and the ban on cow slaughter. - - Non issue/reap what you sow
8) Composition of its Lok Sabha membership - WTF!
9) Composition of cabinet in those states where it is the ruling party. - WTF!
10) Ideological slavery to RSS. - Not enough. More is needed.
11) Ghar Wapsi nonsense. - State sponsored conversion programs should be initiated from Christianity and Islam to any of the Indic faiths. Even atheism can be promoted.
12) Yogi Aadityanath. -
13) Uma Bharti. -
14) Political appointment of RSS members/sympathizers to public/statutory bodies. - Excellent job.
15) Saffronization of school textbooks in various states. - Not enough is done to remove the blatant falsehoods.
16) Love jihad nonsense and rampant moral policing. - More actions needs to be done.
17) Violence and murder of rationalists. - Sad that hate mongers were killed before being tried.
18) Violence and intimidation against secular commentators. - There are no secular commentators in India.
19) Arbitrary and mala fide action against secular media. - Nothing exists as such.
20) Campus hooliganism by ABVP along religious lines. - Much needed.
21) On-going villification of secular historical figures such as Gandhi and Nehru. - ROFL
22) Constant statements by Party leaders undermining secularism and villifying secular activists. - Belongs in the trash can.

While I find your views to be repulsive, I commend your honesty. Much better than people who are all over the place while trying to perform incredible mental gymnastics in order to justify their views.