Pashto words in Urdu

[hydrabadi_arab]

There were indeed cultural, linguistic and racial changes taking place in them and they were getting Indianized with time.........But Icebreaker is making a ridiculous claim that they did not identify themselves as Pashtuns, that they did not act as Pashtuns and considered themselves distinct nation and were not organized along tribal lines. I have already proved to him that it was not the case. Not only they acted as Pashtuns but during the Lodi period they were organized along the tribal lines. Lohanis were under their Lohani chiefs, Sarwanis were under their Sarwani chiefs etc.

https://www.facebook.com/

Icebreaker is making same point that they identified as pathans by lineage and were proud of it. Just like he is and other urdu speaking pathans. If criteria of being pathan is to follow tribal culture and behave like tribals then Lodhi, Suri etc were not pathans. He has provided ample historical proof how they left behind tribal norms and adopted. They were no longer simple 1st gen tribals who came with conquerors as mercenaries.

 

[icebreaker2]

Foolish to look at history with modern lens. Hate urdu speaking pathans but claim all of their ancestor achievements as their own while living in some tribal village which mean his direct ancestors didn't play any important role in history of subcontinent. ironic

I fail to see how direct descendants can't claim their heritage while someone else far away can?

No one from his region ruled over Delhi. Lodhi's two previous generation were living in Sirhind and Sher Shah rose through the ranks in bihar. He is confusing medieval politics of India and familial linkages with some type of pashtun nationalism. But the most ridiculous claim is that their descendants have no relationship to them but he as some tribal living in a village from a region from where no pakthun has ever conquered because he shares the last name

On one hand you are claiming to be from "Ashrafi caste" of Indians from Rampur and on the other hand it triggers you when i call you Indian. You are a confused individual.



I was not talking about Seraiki belt. Kasur and Malerkotla of Punjab in 18th century (not today's) was on my mind. While they had retained their Afghan identity in 18th century, same is not the case today as they have become completely Punjabized/Indianized. Today very few people in Kasur district identity themselves as 'Pathan' or 'Afghan' even though they could bring forth 20,000 men to the field in early 18th century.


His army, before crossing Indus, consisted of Mirza (i.e Mughals) and recruits from Afghanistan which were mostly Pashtuns.


Actually Khushal Khan Khattak did. He attributes the Babur's victory at battle of Panipat to Pashtuns of Roh. Are you going to insult our great poet? stop Loling


You and your Indian Ashrafi caste. Pashtuns were not part of any Indian caste, they were just Pashtuns/Afghans.





Its amusing to see you struggling with history and coming up with laughable explanations. I am engaging you in discussion because your ignorance about history is entertaining. Hafiz Rahmat Khan was born in Pakhtunkhwa and he migrated to India when he was a grown up man. Refer to his biography "Gulistan-i-Rahmat" written by his son. He was not part of the Mughal nobility, he did not have any mansab. And he displayed a great deal of Pashtun-hood by coming to the rescue of Bangash nawabs on several occasions. If he was an Indian like you, he would not have written books in Pashto and would not have talked about Pashtun tribes in Khulasatul-Ansab.




You are an Indian and an Urduspeaker and from qaum of Altaf Hussain. You have nothing to do with us or our past.


You are mistaking me for a mureed of Altaf Hussain, we dont bow our heads or bend our knees to other human beings like your kind and i am not bragging.




Roh was not a state, it was a region with a defined geography. Yes they changed the history, they ensured the survival of Lodi kingdom when it was struggling against much powerful Sharqi kingdom.


I admit he is indeed a descendant of Pashtuns, but he is not a Pashtun. His ancestor Dost Muhammad Khan looked behaved, and spoke like those in Tirah , "savage tribals" in your words. Just like 'Syed Mustafa Kamal' is not Arab , in the same way Shahryar Khan is not a Pashtun. Both belongs to the Hindustani Mohajir community.

‘
‘On one hand you are claiming to be from "Ashrafi caste" of Indians from Rampur and on the other hand it triggers you when i call you Indian. You are a confused individual.’


Ashrafi is no cast moron. Read some history and you will know what it means Afghanistani Pashtun nationalist and feel free to get lost from my country along with your patch of dirt to join your opium addicted brothers.

Funny how you disassociate people from their direct ancestors. It will be like if someone goes to America, achieves something great and his descendants claim his heritage which they build on and a moron like you rises from a dirt patch and tells them he belonged to you because they speak English now while their ancestor spoke some Pashto because only ‘Pashto speakers and doers’ can achieve greatness so their heritage belongs to me.

The pathans of hind were successful not because of tribalism but because they left that world behind and came into a new world which allowed them to achieve greatness. Tribalism of the form of Roh was left behind. That is not to say they did not have a tribal identity but it’s impact on social structure was very different, alliances formed were not based on historic enmity or friendliness it depended on Jagirs and power politics of medieval India etc. Their success was a result of medieval Indian power politics not Pashtunism as you like to believe. Just like any person’s success after moving to America is the result of American society not pashtun society of KPK

India is a modern term used by British to refer to their empire i.e. British India and that included your tribal badlands and after that it was used by the state of India. So, no I’m not Indian. I am Pakistani and my ancestors were men of great position in the fertile lands of UP and Hyderabad Deccan of Turik and Pathan descent who went on to create a far greater heritage and descent for me than yours


‘I was not talking about Seraiki belt. Kasur and Malerkotla of Punjab in 18th century (not today's) was on my mind. While they had retained their Afghan identity in 18th century, same is not the case today as they have become completely Punjabized/Indianized. Today very few people in Kasur district identity themselves as 'Pathan' or 'Afghan' even though they could bring forth 20,000 men to the field in early 18th century.’


Again, absolute rubbish. Read above, they are not Indianized. Punjabized and Indianized is not the same thing. Which you are trying to use it as a derogatory term (because of refence to state of India) hasish addicted Afghanistani. Yes their ancestors did do that and I am sure they are no less in valour than any dirt poor tribal. You think your godforsaken tribe can raise 20,000 armed men today? Try it, they will be crushed by Pakistani army

They still retain their identity though not the tribal structure. Don’t make bs claims.



Kasuri Pathans


Qusuri or Kusuri, a pathan of Kasur - Tashrih al-aqvam (1825)


Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri

When the Zamand section was broken up, the Khweshgi (or also pronounced Kheshki) clan migrated to the Ghorband defile, and a large number marched tence with the Mughal Emperor Babar and found great favour at his hands and those of his son Humayun, One section of them settled at Kasur, and are known as "Qasuria or Kasuri Pathans"[2]


The Qasuria or kasuri Pathans increased in numbers and importance until the chiefs thought themselves strong enough to refuse to pay tribute to the Mughals. After some severe fighting the Qasuria Pathans were compelled to give in, they never lost heart however and maintained their independence until 1807, when they were finally subdued by the Sikhs. After the confiscation of Kasur by Ranjit Singh, the Pathans were ordered to remain on the left bank of the Sutlej where their leader was assigned the Jagir of Mamdot, in Firozpur District. The Mamdot family emigrated to Pakistan, after the independence in 1947. One portion of Kasuri Pathan most called Amchozi settled in Bahawalnagar district at Nadir Shah village near to Bahawalnagar city. Bahawalnagar one Bazar name is Nadir Shah Bazar. These Pathan are landlord as well as in government services. Akbar Khan Amchozi is a graduate civil engineer and working as director engineer in Punjab province.


‘His army, before crossing Indus, consisted of Mirza (i.e Mughals) and recruits from Afghanistan which were mostly Pashtuns.’

They are alive to this day to claim their heritage so no moron from amu darya can claim it because they don’t live a medieval lifestyle and speak the same language. Every area he conquered he was picking up allies and making enemies. It is called medieval warfare and that is the point I made which went over your head.


‘Actually Khushal Khan Khattak did. He attributes the Babur's victory at battle of Panipat to Pashtuns of Roh. Are you going to insult our great poet? stop Loling’


You have been claiming all Pashtuns were one body and now you are saying they sided with Babur. Stop jumping over the fence and make up your mind. You are contradicting yourself.

Firstly, never take claims in the medieval books you started to quote me on face value. Modern day historians gather data from multiple sources and verify before they accept a claim. This doubly stands true for poets.

Khushal kahna khatak gave credit to Pashtuns of Roh. Lol. Who was he going to give credit to. Martians of mars. History is not verified by showing respect. I think he was suffering from apnay moo mian mithu syndrome

What you are saying is akin to giving credit of building the pyramids in Egypt to jews and not the pharaohs. They were subjects of babur, babur was not their subject. First you wanted to claim the heritage of Pashtuns of Indus-gangetic plains and now you want to claim the glory of Mughals. Lol


‘You and your Indian Ashrafi caste. Pashtuns were not part of any Indian caste, they were just Pashtuns/Afghans.’

As I said earlier there is no such thing as Ashrafi caste, opium addicted Afghanistani. The people who claim descent from them to this day call themselves pathans as their ancestors of male lineage did and that is part of their ethnic identity. Though they have nothing to do with you tribals just like their ancestors differentiated themselves from you and left that world behind and went on to build great monument etc. which your ancestors could not match even in their dreams.


Read carefully: It says although the Rohilla Chiefs were generally looked upon as ashraf muslims who cherished an urban and literate life style….

‘Its amusing to see you struggling with history and coming up with laughable explanations. I am engaging you in discussion because your ignorance about history is entertaining. Hafiz Rahmat Khan was born in Pakhtunkhwa and he migrated to India when he was a grown up man. Refer to his biography "Gulistan-i-Rahmat" written by his son. He was not part of the Mughal nobility, he did not have any mansab. And he displayed a great deal of Pashtun-hood by coming to the rescue of Bangash nawabs on several occasions. If he was an Indian like you, he would not be writing books in Pashto and talking about Pashtun tribes in Khulasatul-Ansab.’


My apologies he was born in Mardan and was the uncle of Ali Muhammad Khan (grandson of Bahadur Shah I) and that caused confusion. I don’t need to read every book on the planet to know and understand history. His Father was settled in Rohailkhand.

There is no question about him not being part and parcel of the nobility of Mughals. He served the Mughals as Viceroy against Ahmed Sahah Durrani ( See the passage below). It fully supports my interpretation of history and the interpretation of history by reputable historians. Writing books in Pashto does not make him not part of Mughal nobility. Which language do you think he spoke when he interacted with nobility of India and was mentoring Prince Mirza Jawan Bakht, was running his jaghirs and conducting interregional trade and trade with central asia (Prsian and Urdu/Hisndustani). He ordered numerous translations into Persian from Pashto. Don’t forget the only Pashto manuscripts that came out of Rampur were from Hafiz Rahamat Khan Bareech. Their descents into early 20th century were teaching their children to write down their ancestries and broke their hands if they made mistake. So explain to me how him writing about his ancestry makes him related to you.


Gulistan-i-Rahmat is written in Persian. Wonder how a Pashtu speaker and Pashto doer’s son will be writing in Persian and not Pashto and relate more with Persian and Ashrafi society than the society of the pashtuns of roh. Read below about their social structure and how much tribalism played a part in their lives

She is the inheritor of the legacy of Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech not you a tribal from a dirt patch in middle of nowhere.

https://nuzhat888.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/four-generations-of-hafiz-rahmat-khan-barech/


Why do you think he helped Bangash nawabs of UP. Is it because their tribal leaders from Roh told them to do so. Lol. I don’t find a history where Pathans of India were running back to Roh to show their allegiance to your kind. Bangash nawabs themselves were part and parcel of Mughal nobility (also happened to be mansabdars) and part of Mughal army and had alliance with other nobility of the court. Ethnicity had little to do with alliance formation although pathans of hind did have a loose confederacy if they were close enough and powerful enough. What you are trying to say is that because the blacks in America identify with each other so they all belong to Angola.lol

Another hole in your BS about them identifying with Roh for centuries and maintaining tribal structure

Here is another one about warfare between Rohillas and Bangash

Third generation of Bangah Nawabs were writing poetry in Urdu i.e. Nawab Mustafa Khan Shefta and had moved from Persian. Their bread and butter was with nobility of India and that is culture they considered their own when they came to this land.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nawab_Mustafa_Khan_Shefta


Hafiz Rahmat Khan

Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech (1723 - April 1774) was Regent of Rohilkhand in North India, from 1749 to 1774.[1] He was a Pashtun by background, ruling over Rohillas. Hafiz Rahmat Khan had served honorably throughout the reign of three Mughal Emperors: Ahmad Shah Bahadur, Alamgir II and Shah Alam II. He was also a mentor of Prince Mirza Jawan Bakht.


Early life an origins

In 1623 two Pashtun brothers of the Barech tribe, Bahadur Shah I and Husain Khan, settled here and founded a small state of Rampur, bringing with them many other Pashtun settlers. Ali Muhammad Khan, grandson of Bahadur Shah I, later united the Rohillas between 1707 and 1720, making Bareilly his capital. Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech, who was his uncle, succeeded him, extended his power from Almora in the North to Etawah in the South-West.


Victory against Ahmad Shah Durrani (1748)

In the year 1748, Ahmad Shah Durrani led an expedition to plunder the western regions of the Mughal Empire. This incursion posed as a major challenge to the Mughal Emperor Muhammad Shah, who urgently Asaf Jah I from the Deccan in order to lead the Mughal Army based in the North-West South Asia, this army was also headed by Prince Ahmad Shah and according to the advise of Ali Mohammed Khan, Hafiz Rahmat Khan was appointed as the Subedar of Sirhind in order to lead and regain and recover territories from the Durrani,[2] forces even Muradyab Khan Kalhoro the Subedar of Sindh to dispatch reinforcements to assist the Mughal Army along the river banks.


Prince Ahmad and the respected Grand Vizier Asaf Jah I were dispatched by the Mughal Emperor Muhammad Shah to command a large Mughal Army of 75,000 to confront the advancing Durrani's. At Sirhind both forces fought a decisive battle and Prince Ahmad was nominally victorious. He was thereupon conferred with the title Bahadur, by the Mughal Emperor.


Mughal Civil War

According to a Firman by Ahmad Shah Bahadur Hafiz Rahmat Khan was assigned to support Feroze Jung III against the Mughal Grand Vizier Safdarjung, who was defeated and forgiven and thus withdrew to become just the Nawab of Awadh and died in 1753.


When Ahmad Shah Bahadur tried to have young Feroze Jung III removed from the imperial court, the outcast then sought an alliance with the detested Maratha chieftain Sadashivrao Bhau. Together they deposed Ahmad Shah Bahadur after the devastating First Battle of Sikandarabad in the year 1754.


Since then Hafiz Rahmat Khan entered the service of Najib-ul-Daula and constantly fought the Marathas led by Sadashivrao Bhau and opposed Feroze Jung III.


Alliance with the Ahmad Shah Durrani

In 1757, the Mughal Emperor Alamgir II with courtiers such as Shah Waliullah, nobles such as Najib-ul-Daula and Hafiz Rahmat Khan, and the imperial family went to Sirhind to meet Ahmad Shah Durrani, whose forces then engaged the Marathas in combat and threatened to overthrow and execute the regime of Imad-ul-Mulk. Ahmad Shah Durrani's relations with the Mughal Emperor, strengthened further when his son Timur Shah Durrani married the daughter of Alamgir II and patronized the Mughal commander Jahan Khan.


Third Battle of Panipat

He played an important part in Indian warfare over several decades, being on the winning side at the Third Battle of Panipat of 1761, but was defeated and killed in the Rohilla War.[3] In 1772 Rohilkhand was invaded and conquered by the Marathas.


Counterattacks against Suraj Mal

In the year 1764, Najib-ul-Daula the administrator of Delhi and the Mughal heartlands faces the relentless warfare by Jat peasants led by the ruthless Suraj Mal, who sacked the Mughal Army garrison at Agra and even looted the silver doors of the Taj Mahal, Hafiz Rahmat Khan was among those commanders in Mughal service who swore to avenge the devastation caused and soon Suraj Mal was defeated and executed.


Internal conflict with Awadh

After the war Nawab Shuja-ud-Daula demanded payment for their help from the Rohilla chief, Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech. When the demand was refused the Nawab joined with the British under Governor Warren Hastings and his Commander-in-Chief, Alexander Champion, to invade Rohilkhand and Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech was killed in the ensuing battle at Miranpur Katra in 1774. The whole of Rohilkhand (including Bareilly, Pilibhit and Shahjanpur) was surrendered to the East India Company by the treaty of November 10, 1801. Later, Bareilly was a centre of disaffection for the entire area in the Indian Mutiny of 1857. [4]


‘You are an Indian and an Urduspeaker and from qaum of Altaf Hussain. You have nothing to do with us or our past.’

No I’m not Indian, Afghanistani opium addicted tribal as I explained to you earlier. As a member of the qoum of Fazlullah, TTP, shahi syed, Fazl-ur-Rehman and opium addicted Afghanistani you have nothing to do with the patahans of hind, their glory and their descendants.


‘You are mistaking me for a mureed of Altaf Hussain, we dont bow our heads or bend our knees to other human beings and i am not bragging.’

You are one joker aren’t you. Your history is the history of bowing down to other people first to Persians, then to central Asians, possibly to Maurians, to the Sikhs and to the British. What makes you think you are supernatural beings, moron. You have culturally always been dominated by other people. Pashtuns are defined as an interregional community ravaged by time (by many), not great conquers (by anyone)


‘Roh was not a state, it was a region with a defined geography. Yes they changed the history, they ensured the survival of Lodi kingdom when it was struggling against much powerful Sharqi kingdom.’


Have you heard of sarcasm? The point being there was no great state of Roh. A passage of a book mentioning lodi allied with the tribes by giving them money and land to fight Sharqi dynasty does not mean they changed history. If you have to find a needle in a haystack to find glory and claim other people’s heritage (i.e. Pathans of Hind) as your own then you have nothing to claim. You want to know history of great people. Read history of Persians, Turks, Mongols and Greeks. If you pathans of Roh were so great then roh would have been the capital of the subcontinent, not Delhi and we all would have been speaking Pashtu and following it’s cultural traditions but you are the one following the traditions of my ancestors which includes pathans of hind.


‘I admit he is indeed a descendant of Pashtuns, but he is not a Pashtun. His ancestor Dost Muhammad Khan looked behaved, and spoke like those in Tirah , "savage tribals" in your words. Just like 'Syed Mustafa Kamal' is not Arab, in the same way Shahryar Khan is not a Pashtun. Both belongs to the Hindustani Mohajir community.’


No he is a pashtun. World over they are called Urdu speaking Pathans which is a widely acknowledge and used term. He is not a ‘Pashto speaker and doer’(whatever that means) and looks down upon you and your way of life because they became civilized and differentiated from you from the very beginning. Which led to them being successful.

Here are all the screenshots in sequence as they are not showing up

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

No one from his region ruled over Delhi. Lodhi's two previous generation were living in Sirhind and Sher Shah rose through the ranks in bihar. He is confusing medieval politics of India and familial linkages with some type of pashtun nationalism. But the most ridiculous claim is that their descendants have no relationship to them but he as some tribal living in a village from a region from where no pakthun has ever conquered because he shares the last name

This racist villager tribal with access to internet is losing his mind. For him cultured people and urban life style is inferior or as he call it being indianzed lol. Why even in tribal society people with homes and lands are considered superior to nomads?

 

[karakoram]

Very informative thread

 

[Mian Babban]

No one from his region ruled over Delhi. Lodhi's two previous generation were living in Sirhind and Sher Shah rose through the ranks in bihar. He is confusing medieval politics of India and familial linkages with some type of pashtun nationalism. But the most ridiculous claim is that their descendants have no relationship to them but he as some tribal living in a village from a region from where no pakthun has ever conquered because he shares the last name

I think in this and previous posts you are claiming that no one from Pakhtunkhwa/Roh has made any conquests, that only those who got Indianized after several generations, were able to emerge as rulers and conquerors. Basically you claiming that Pashtuns from their native lands never produced rulers and conquerors. I am going to enrich your knowledge on this. Shah Mir Swati , an adventurer from Swat, established the first Muslim dynasty of Kashmir. Dost Muhammad Khan Orakzai from Tirah went to India and conquered Bhopal and founded a dynasty with the help of his clansmen from Tirah. Tirah is in present-day FATA , tribal areas. Najib Khan Yousafzai from Buner (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) went to India , enlisted himself as a common soldier but made so much progress that he ruled Delhi for ten years as a dictator. I have already mentioned Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech. Now lets come to Persia. A Ghilzai army from Kanadahar led by Mahmud Hotak invaded and conquered Persia in 1722. Dont you know about that?. His father Mirwais had established independent emirate of Kandahar in 1708. Azad Khan Sulieman Khel from Ghazni ruled Azerbajian and North-western Persia for eight years. Read about him. And our Ahmad Shah Abdali had second largest Muslim empire after Ottomans in that age.

The pathans of hind were successful not because of tribalism but because they left that world behind and came into a new world which allowed them to achieve greatness. Tribalism of the form of Roh was left behind. That is not to say they did not have a tribal identity but it’s impact on social structure was very different, alliances formed were not based on historic enmity or friendliness it depended on Jagirs and power politics of medieval India etc. Their success was a result of medieval Indian power politics not Pashtunism as you like to believe. Just like any person’s success after moving to America is the result of American society not pashtun society of KPK

Thats not true. They were successful , daring and enterprising as long as they had vigour and spirit of Pashtun. They became degenerated and degraded when they lost every thing that makes one Pashtun.

India is a modern term used by British to refer to their empire i.e. British India and that included your tribal badlands and after that it was used by the state of India. So, no I’m not Indian. I am Pakistani and my ancestors were men of great position in the fertile lands of UP and Hyderabad Deccan of Turik and Pathan descent who went on to create a far greater heritage and descent for me than yours

Rampur was a small state. You are blowing things our of proportion. No you do not have "great" heritage and descent. For Hindus and "Ajlafs", you are just an ordinary Indian Muslim. Linkage with a petty state of Rampur does not grant you wings and horns.

You have been claiming all Pashtuns were one body

Where i made such a comment? they were never one body and are still not one body . They are tribal people and each tribe and family had their own interests and priorities. Some supported British, some opposed British.

First you wanted to claim the heritage of Pashtuns of Indus-gangetic plains and now you want to claim the glory of Mughals. Lol

No i am not doing that. It was rather unfortunate that Pashtun mercenaries of Roh in the army of Babur were cutting down their Lodi brethren at the battle of Panipat. A similar scene had happened before in which Pashtun chieftains from Roh in the army of Amir Timur were fighting against Mallu Iqbal Khan Lodi, the Afghan Wazir of Tughlaq empire.

As I said earlier there is no such thing as Ashrafi caste, opium addicted Afghanistani. The people who claim descent from them to this day call themselves pathans as their ancestors of male lineage did and that is part of their ethnic identity. Though they have nothing to do with you tribals just like their ancestors differentiated themselves from you and left that world behind and went on to build great monument etc. which your ancestors could not match even in their dreams.

Superior Ashraf caste !.....its your insecurity and inferiority complex speaking. Honestly its cringy. For us you all are one and same i.e Hindis

Read carefully: It says although the Rohilla Chiefs were generally looked upon as ashraf muslims who cherished an urban and literate life style….

They might have started calling themselves Ashrafis after becoming thoroughly Indianzied but they were not part of this non-sense when they were Pashtuns. Bahadur Khan Daudzai who was born in Peshawar and accompanied his father to India, founded Shahjahanpur city in 1647 and invited Pashtuns from 52 tribes of Roh. For each tribe he assigned a Mohallah so that the city had 52 Mohallahs. Thats tribal organization of Pashtuns.

My apologies he was born in Mardan and was the uncle of Ali Muhammad Khan (grandson of Bahadur Shah I) and that caused confusion. I don’t need to read every book on the planet to know and understand history. His Father was settled in Rohailkhand.

Apologies accepted (good to see that you are consulting books) but his father Shah Alam was not settled in Rohilkhand. He visited Rohilkhand to meet his run away slave Daud Khan (to convince him to return back to Roh) and during return journey, he was murdered by some robbers. So he is buried there. And you are talking about which Bahadur Shah I?. The Mughal King Bahadur Shah I died in 1712 and he was not related to any Rohilla.

There is no question about him not being part and parcel of the nobility of Mughals. He served the Mughals as Viceroy against Ahmed Sahah Durrani ( See the passage below). It fully supports my interpretation of history and the interpretation of history by reputable historians. Writing books in Pashto does not make him not part of Mughal nobility. Which language do you think he spoke when he interacted with nobility of India and was mentoring Prince Mirza Jawan Bakht, was running his jaghirs and conducting interregional trade and trade with central asia (Prsian and Urdu/Hisndustani). He ordered numerous translations into Persian from Pashto. Don’t forget the only Pashto manuscripts that came out of Rampur were from Hafiz Rahamat Khan Bareech. Their descents into early 20th century were teaching their children to write down their ancestries and broke their hands if they made mistake. So explain to me how him writing about his ancestry makes him related to you.

Let me repeat myself. He was not a mansabdar of Mughal empire. It was Najib-ud-Daulah who was mansabdar of Mughal empire. Strictly speaking, Rohillas of Doab under regency of Hafiz Rahmat Khan were 'rebels' of Mughal empire. They were not sending income to the treasury of Delhi and were not bound by firmans of Delhi emperor.

Gulistan-i-Rahmat is written in Persian. Wonder how a Pashtu speaker and Pashto doer’s son will be writing in Persian and not Pashto and relate more with Persian and Ashrafi society than the society of the pashtuns of roh. Read below about their social structure and how much tribalism played a part in their lives

So? Farsi was also lingua franca of Roh and entire present-day Afghanistan. Farsi is the national language of Afghanistan . What you have any thing to do with Farsi? you are a Hindi speaker

She is the inheritor of the legacy of Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech not you a tribal from a dirt patch in middle of nowhere.

https://nuzhat888.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/four-generations-of-hafiz-rahmat-khan-barech/ [/QUOTE]

So these ladies are descendants of Hafiz Rahmat Khan the Pashtun. They are just Indian looking people who dress like any other Indian. Hafiz Rahmat Khan was a Barech Pashtun, these ladies are not. They are just Indian Muslims of 'Ashraf' or 'Ajlaf' caste.

Here is another one about warfare between Rohillas and Bangash

Disunity is key feature of Pashtuns and Qaim Khan Bangash attacked Rohillas on instigation of Safdar Janh who had eyes on Bangash's territories. Rohillas defeated Bangashs, and Safdar Jang occupied the Farrukhabad of weakened Bangashs. It was sentiment of Pashtun brotherhood that Hafiz Rahmat Khan did not tolerate the destruction of Bangashs at the hands of Awadh and subsequently helped his brethren, not just on this occasion but also on other occasions concerning Marathas.

No I’m not Indian, Afghanistani opium addicted tribal as I explained to you earlier. As a member of the qoum of Fazlullah, TTP, shahi syed, Fazl-ur-Rehman and opium addicted Afghanistani you have nothing to do with the patahans of hind, their glory and their descendants.

Typical MQM mindset. The inferiority complex of Ajlafs. Your sorts are claiming to be the heirs of Lodi and Sur emperors while other MQM-walas are calling themselves heir and grandchildren of of Mughal emperors....the fact is majority of Indian Muslims were converts from low castes of Hinduism according to historians.

What makes you think you are supernatural beings, moron. You have culturally always been dominated by other people. Pashtuns are defined as an interregional community ravaged by time (by many), not great conquers (by anyone)

We do not claim to be supernatural or superior beings. Its you and your kind who are have low self esteem and are wannabe Pashtuns. You people link yourselves to us to feel great or superior or some thing like that. Be yourselves and you people will be at ease. As about what Pashtuns could do. The "dirt poor" Pashtuns decimated your Maratha kin at the battle of Panipat.

A passage of a book mentioning lodi allied with the tribes by giving them money and land to fight Sharqi dynasty does not mean they changed history.

Actually Lodi kingdom would not have survived without the help from tribes of Roh. Sharqi army had besieged Delhi, the capital, and Bahlol had only a small army of his own.

If you pathans of Roh were so great then roh would have been the capital of the subcontinent, not Delhi and we all would have been speaking Pashtu and following it’s cultural traditions but you are the one following the traditions of my ancestors which includes pathans of hind.

Roh was an independent territory, wild wild west, no kings or kingdoms.........Here is snippet from Afsana-i-Shahan

It was only in 18th century that Pashtuns realized that they need to have their own state or kingdom

And i forget to mention. Pashtuns at Mau did not like the Nawabi and Indian life style of Nawab Muhammad Khan Bangash

This racist villager tribal with access to internet is losing his mind. For him cultured people and urban life style is inferior or as he call it being indianzed lol. Why even in tribal society people with homes and lands are considered superior to nomads?

I am in awe of Indians

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

If dark skin made someone non-pathan then I have bad news for you. Many tribals are dark skinned. You run out of logical arguments now have fallen back on racism. If you mix with Russian or American soldier that would make you even more whiter but also just another tribal. Not same as being direct descendent of Lodhis and Suris. Your direct ancestors didn't play any role in Hindustan power politics. Those who did are known as urdu speakers pathans today.

Your tribals are deobandis, who introduced this ideology to you?

 

[Mian Babban]

If dark skin made someone non-pathan then I have bad news for you. Many tribals are dark skinned. You run out of logical arguments now have fallen back on racism. If you mix with Russian or American soldier that would make you even more whiter but also just another tribal. Not same as being direct descendent of Lodhis and Suris. Your direct ancestors didn't play any role in Hindustan power politics. Those who did are known as urdu speakers pathans today.

Your tribals are deobandis, who introduced this ideology to you?

But i did not mention skin colour any where, why you are weeping about your dark skin?. There is a Pashtun face and then there is Indian face. The ladies are Indians, are you trying to convince me they are not?

Here is typical Irano-Afghan face according to Anthropologists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irano-Afghan_race

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

But i did not mention skin colour any where, why you are weeping about your dark skin?. There is a Pashtun face and then there is Indian face. The ladies are Indians, are you trying to convince me they are not?

Here is typical Irano-Afghan face according to Anthropologists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irano-Afghan_race

Barech could have looked like malala father

or mashal khan father

There is no pashtun face. Only light skinned are not pashtuns. Racism make people retards. Quoting 19th century outdated anthropology. lol

 

[Mian Babban]

Barech could have looked like malala father


There is no pashtun face. Only light skinned are not pashtuns. Racism make people retards. Quoting 19th century outdated anthropology. lol

You and your Indian insecurities about Skin colour. You are simply trolling on this thread my Indian friend. I am giving attention and time to Icebreaker because he is actually talking about history on history section. Silently read the debate between me and him.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

You and your Indian insecurities about Skin colour. You are simply trolling on this thread my Indian friend. I am giving attention and time to Icebreaker because he is actually talking about history on history section. Silently read the debate between me and him.

You are the one saying urdu speakers don't have any claim based on skin colour, talk about insecurities eh? Now see faces of malala father and mashal father and get this mentality out of your head.

 

[icebreaker2]

There were indeed cultural, linguistic and racial changes taking place in them and they were getting Indianized with time.........But Icebreaker is making a ridiculous claim that they did not identify themselves as Pashtuns, that they did not act as Pashtuns and considered themselves distinct nation and were not organized along tribal lines. I have already proved to him that it was not the case. Not only they acted as Pashtuns but during the Lodi period they were organized along the tribal lines. Lohanis were under their Lohani chiefs, Sarwanis were under their Sarwani chiefs etc. They were mixed, some were fresh arrivals from Roh while others were descendants of Pashtuns settled during rule of previous dynasties. Some of the could speak Pashto, some could not. Half-Indian Afghans of India were looked down upon by those of Roh. For example a Niazi chieftain of Roh refused to give daughter to the half-Indian nephew of Sher Shah according to Tarikh-i-Sher Shahi. Full Pashtun parentage was held in high esteem by India's Pashtuns for example Sultan Shah Lodi preferred his nephew Bahlol as his successor because he was a full Pashtun while his own son was born from an Indian mother.

https://www.facebook.com/

I never made the claim they did not identify as Pashtuns, their ancestors still do. They did not identify as Pashtuns of Roh. Whole sub tribes moved together so they had enough of them there to not rely on Roh

They were differentiated from the pashtuns of Roh. They did belong to different tribes so do many pashtuns in modern day Paksiatan and India retain and identify with their tribal names but do not identify with your kind. When their closest kith and Kin moved with them they no longer had any connections other than trade and new arrivals coming in their service

That is a fact. They were living in a different place with different realities. I have made this amply clear to you. the inter-tribal relationships were not the same, neither the tribal structure nor the property right. Their relationships with everyone else and themselves was defined by Zamindari and other realities of the land.

 

[icebreaker2]

"Mian Babban, post: 9549855, member: 184739"]I think in this and previous posts you are claiming that no one from Pakhtunkhwa/Roh has made any conquests, that only those who got Indianized after several generations, were able to emerge as rulers and conquerors. Basically you claiming that Pashtuns from their native lands never produced rulers and conquerors. I am going to enrich your knowledge on this. Shah Mir Swati , an adventurer from Swat, established the first Muslim dynasty of Kashmir. Dost Muhammad Khan Orakzai from Tirah went to India and conquered Bhopal and founded a dynasty with the help of his clansmen from Tirah. Tirah is in present-day FATA , tribal areas. Najib Khan Yousafzai from Buner (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) went to India , enlisted himself as a common soldier but made so much progress that he ruled Delhi for ten years as a dictator. I have already mentioned Hafiz Rahmat Khan Barech. Now lets come to Persia. A Ghilzai army from Kanadahar led by Mahmud Hotak invaded and conquered Persia in 1722. Dont you know about that?. His father Mirwais had established independent emirate of Kandahar in 1708. Azad Khan Sulieman Khel from Ghazni ruled Azerbajian and North-western Persia for eight years. Read about him. And our Ahmad Shah Abdali had second largest Muslim empire after Ottomans in that age.

No, read very carefully what I wrote. No pashtun from Roh ruled over Delhi. Don't try and tell me Ahmed Shah Abdali ruled over Delhi.

Both Dost Muhammad Khan Orakzai and Najib Khan Yousafzai were 'emigrants' not conquerors. I don't need you make a point for me. Same goes for Hafiz Rahmat Khan. Come up with something better. Here is something to enlighten you about Shah Mir Swati. Do a simply google search before writing bs.

There are two theories regarding Shah Mir's origin. Historian A. Q. Rafiqi states that some Persian chronicles of Kashmir describe Shah Mir as a descendent of the rulers of Swat.[a] He thinks it more likely that he was a descedent of Turkish or Persian immigrants to Swat.[2] It has also been suggested that he belonged to a Sufi or Qadiri family.[3]

On the other hand, the 15th century Kashmiri historian Jonaraja, writing in the court of Shah Mir's descendant Budshah, states that Shah Mir came to Kashmir along with his tribe from the country of Panchagahvara (identified as the Panjgabbar valley between Rajouri and Budhal). He was said to belong to the family of an ancestor called Partha, who was described as a second Partha (an allusion to the Mahabharata hero Arjuna).[4][5] Some scholars state that the Panjgabbar valley was peopled by Khasas and so ascribe a Khasa ethnicity to Shah Mir.[6][7][8]

Most modern historians accept the Swati origins of Shah Mir.[3][9][10][11] Kashmiri scholar N. K. Zutshi, having critically examined the sources, reconciles the two versions by noting that the Persian chronicles mentions Swadgir rather than Swat, which he interprets as Swadgabar, meaning "suburbs of Gabar", which coincides with Jonaraja's description of Panchagahvara-Simani (on the borders of Panchagagvara).[12]

A. Q. Rafiqi states:

Shah Mir arrived in Kashmir in 1313 along with his family, during the reign of Suhadeva (1301–1320), whose service he entered. In subsequent years, through his tact and ability Shah Mir rose to prominence and became one of the most important personalities of his time.[13]

No one disagrees that for most of their history pashtuns of Roh have been ruled by non-pashtuns


Thats not true. They were successful , daring and enterprising as long as they had vigour and spirit of Pashtun. They became degenerated and degraded when they lost every thing that makes one Pashtun.

They were very enterprising no doubt they lived on trade routes. They were bold too as many are but that does not hold true only if you are pathan. Many people have these attributes.

Case in point. Look at the pathetic situation in Afghanistan, the nation of Bacha Baaz and think before you reply.


Rampur was a small state. You are blowing things our of proportion. No you do not have "great" heritage and descent. For Hindus and "Ajlafs", you are just an ordinary Indian Muslim. Linkage with a petty state of Rampur does not grant you wings and horns.

I am of a descendant of rulers of Hyderabad deccan. Search on google you will know how big or small they were. I am in no delusion about my history. I know very well who Rohillas were. Now share with me whose direct descendant you are and which kingdom's nobility your great grandfather was part of.

Where i made such a comment? they were never one body and are still not one body . They are tribal people and each tribe and family had their own interests and priorities. Some supported British, some opposed British.


No i am not doing that. It was rather unfortunate that Pashtun mercenaries of Roh in the army of Babur were cutting down their Lodi brethren at the battle of Panipat. A similar scene had happened before in which Pashtun chieftains from Roh in the army of Amir Timur were fighting against Mallu Iqbal Khan Lodi, the Afghan Wazir of Tughlaq empire.

You have claimed it again gain ex. telling me Rohillas showed great pashton hood by helping the Bangash Nawabs.

Obviously they didn't agree with you and your interpretation of history is wrong. Funny you never mention the names of these chiefs of Roh because you probably have a hard time finding them in the books you like to quote which are not considered neutral historical records by anyone. Case in point. Read the document below carefully. It challenges your claim about rohilla nawabs ancestry.

Also if you have a keen eye you will notice the difference in narrative between the the two. Pashtuns of Rohilla are always mentioned as tribes fighting while the ones in hind are mostly mentioned as a certain person of power fighting with his troops. Another point which I have consistently made

Superior Ashraf caste !.....its your insecurity and inferiority complex speaking. Honestly its cringy. For us you all are one and same i.e Hindis

Again moron there is no such thing as Ashrafi caste. Firstly clarify who is 'us'. Secondly what makes you think I care about what a low life tribal like you has to say about me. I suffer from no inferiority complex. You are suffering from inferiority complex as you like to claim other people's history.


They might have started calling themselves Ashrafis after becoming thoroughly Indianzied but they were not part of this non-sense when they were Pashtuns. Bahadur Khan Daudzai who was born in Peshawar and accompanied his father to India, founded Shahjahanpur city in 1647 and invited Pashtuns from 52 tribes of Roh. For each tribe he assigned a Mohallah so that the city had 52 Mohallahs. Thats tribal organization of Pashtuns.

I have stated this earlier before. It's another example of power consolidation. Even the Mughals settled tribes from Roh in hind. Many ruling families settled people of different ethnic backgrounds to consolidate power. It was not because they were crying out for pashtun nationhood or because of any tribal organization. It is a fact that tribalism took back seat in hind.

You have no understanding of power politics in medieval India or Afghan migration into Hind.

Apologies accepted (good to see that you are consulting books) but his father Shah Alam was not settled in Rohilkhand. He visited Rohilkhand to meet his run away slave Daud Khan (to convince him to return back to Roh) and during return journey, he was murdered by some robbers. So he is buried there. And you are talking about which Bahadur Shah I?. The Mughal King Bahadur Shah I died in 1712 and he was not related to any Rohilla.

Yes he was. I quoted you the source. No I am not talking about Bahadur Shah I the Mughal emperor. Figure it out for yourself.

Let me repeat myself. He was not a mansabdar of Mughal empire. It was Najib-ud-Daulah who was mansabdar of Mughal empire. Strictly speaking, Rohillas of Doab under regency of Hafiz Rahmat Khan were 'rebels' of Mughal empire. They were not sending income to the treasury of Delhi and were not bound by firmans of Delhi emperor.

I never said he was a mansabdar. I said he was part of Mughal nobility which he was. He was not even a nawab of Rhoillas he was a reagent ruling for his nephew. So don't try to twist my words.

"Rebels of Mughals" Read what i wrote moron. Go back and have a look. Mughal courtiers were rebelling against Mughals when he rebelled so were the Nawabs of Oudh and the future Nizams of Deccan. You really have no understanding of medieval politics of India or medieval politics in general. History can be summarized as former subjects rebelling against their ruler when they get weak.

So? Farsi was also lingua franca of Roh and entire present-day Afghanistan. Farsi is the national language of Afghanistan . What you have any thing to do with Farsi? you are a Hindi speaker

Firstly I am a Urdu speaker ( learn the difference between what modern day terminologies of Hindi and Urdu denote), Afghanistani charsi bacha baz, which took over as the ligua franca of the subcontinent from Persian and that is the reason that till this date Muslims all over the subcontinent speak Urdu and it is the national language of Pakistan. The reason I pointed out Persian was because the uncultured people of what is now KPK did not use Persian as language of their daily use either now or back then but Pathans of hind did along with Urdu. That's why Pashto lost significance very quickly. Which is another point differentiating the two.

https://nuzhat888.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/four-generations-of-hafiz-rahmat-khan-barech/ [/QUOTE]

So these ladies are descendants of Hafiz Rahmat Khan the Pashtun. They are just Indian looking people who dress like any other Indian. Hafiz Rahmat Khan was a Barech Pashtun, these ladies are not. They are just Indian Muslims of 'Ashraf' or 'Ajlaf' caste.

I know you have learnt a few new words but learn what they mean and don't overuse them. Yes they are the descendants of Hafiz Rahmat Khan. Have a look at a picture of Babur and Bahadur shah zafar and then go tell the world Bahadur Shah was not the descendant of Babur. They will call you out for the idiot that you are.

Disunity is key feature of Pashtuns and Qaim Khan Bangash attacked Rohillas on instigation of Safdar Janh who had eyes on Bangash's territories. Rohillas defeated Bangashs, and Safdar Jang occupied the Farrukhabad of weakened Bangashs. It was sentiment of Pashtun brotherhood that Hafiz Rahmat Khan did not tolerate the destruction of Bangashs at the hands of Awadh and subsequently helped his brethren, not just on this occasion but also on other occasions concerning Marathas.

Don't try to teach me history. You need to learn it first. Safdar Jung also helped Hafiz Rahmat Khan against the Maratha while at the same time was also trying to get rid of them. Stop making ridiculous claims. They were butchering each other like animals. Not all wars were fought to completely annihilate the enemy. It's called geo politics. Mughals did not not destroy all of existing nobility of hind when they came to Hind. Marathas reinstated mughal emperor in Delhi after they defeated him

Read who Hemu was. He was the chief minister of Adil Shah Suri and fought Afghan rebels across North India and the Mughal forces of Akbar and Humayun in Agra and Delhi. In fact Afghan Chieftains also sided with Humayun against Sher Shah Suri.

Typical MQM mindset. The inferiority complex of Ajlafs. Your sorts are claiming to be the heirs of Lodi and Sur emperors while other MQM-walas are calling themselves heir and grandchildren of of Mughal emperors....the fact is majority of Indian Muslims were converts from low castes of Hinduism according to historians.

Stop spewing out nonsense charsi Afghanistani. No they were not. It was a classicist society and everyone maintained their class identity. To this day in census in India Dalit muslims are counted as Dalit muslims and make up to 20% to 25% of muslim population. Dalit muslim populations are also present in Paksitan but no record is kept.

The reason they urdu speakers (Which you are equating to MQM) claim to be hiers of Mughals is because they are inheritors of their culture ex. Urdu was the official language of later Mughals (I can numerous other examples and they are not the only inheritors but it has nothing to do with you and your kind). Though it's development accelerated during Delhi sultanate. The culture created by Mughals and delhi dynasty filtered most strongly to muslims of UP and Nawabets of Oudh, Rampur, Deccan etc. and not to you tribals of Roh so off course they relate to them.

We do not claim to be supernatural or superior beings. Its you and your kind who are have low self esteem and are wannabe Pashtuns. You people link yourselves to us to feel great or superior or some thing like that. Be yourselves and you people will be at ease. As about what Pashtuns could do. The "dirt poor" Pashtuns decimated your Maratha kin at the battle of Panipat.

HaHa my Maratha Kin. I think you have completely lost your mind smoking chars. You are a wannabe and you try to associate yourself with Pathans of Hind. Read below and enjoy

Actually Lodi kingdom would not have survived without the help from tribes of Roh. Sharqi army had besieged Delhi, the capital, and Bahlol had only a small army of his own.

Yes, these mercenaries did make a big impact for Bhalul lodi but that is beyond the point. bhalol lodi was not fighting under them they were fighting under bahlol lodhi and therefore history remembers bhalol lodi not them and therefore in the context in which I said this they did not change history, Bhalul lodi did.


Roh was an independent territory, wild wild west, no kings or kingdoms.........Here is snippet from Afsana-i-Shahan

It was only in 18th century that Pashtuns realized that they need to have their own state or kingdom

Stop posting exaggerated bs from Afsana-i-Shahan which was written in Persian by Muhammad Kabir Bettani of Juanpur whose two previous generations were living in Hind. All these tribes were subjects of different kings (rebellious or not). It is a historically accepted fact. Stop reading bs from barmazid.com and read some proper literature on history.

And i forget to mention. Pashtuns at Mau did not like the Nawabi and Indian life style of Nawab Muhammad Khan Bangash

View attachment 401991


Yeah, sure but he was living it. They did not like the idea of one being greater than the other compared to nobility of Turik origion but they thoroughly enjoyed the fruits of civilization. Modeled their architecture on great muslim architecture of hind. They were no longer bound to their tribe but subservient to a bangash even if their weren't bangash. Within a few years the stone throwing was put to an end by his descendant to the throne. Them being adverse to one calming to be superior to others does not mean they were adverse to Ashrafi life style. In two to three generations (at most) they were patrons of Urdu and Persian, the arts and life style of the nobility of Hind.


I am in awe of Indians

[/QUOTE]

Pathetic post. You are in awe of the people in the picture, good for you. Go take a dip in your sewer. It will suit you well since your mind is already in the gutter.

 

[Mian Babban]

I am of a descendant of rulers of Hyderabad deccan. Search on google you will know how big or small they were. I am in no delusion about my history. I know very well who Rohillas were. Now share with me whose direct descendant you are and which kingdom's nobility your great grandfather was part of.

How come rulers of Hyderabad Deccan were servants of Rampur?.

You have claimed it again gain ex. telling me Rohillas showed great pashton hood by helping the Bangash Nawabs.

Yea Indians like you are puzzled about us.

It challenges your claim about rohilla nawabs ancestry.

It doesnt . Nawabs of Rampur themselves recognized that they are of non-Pashtun roots. But instead of Jat boy , they assert that Ali Muhammad Khan found a Syed boy. So they claim to be Syeds. It shows their inferiority complex and pathetic mentality of "Ashraf" or what so ever. Its in the culture, a Pashtunized Jat was as enterprising as other Pashtuns.

Pashtuns of Rohilla are always mentioned as tribes fighting while the ones in hind are mostly mentioned as a certain person of power fighting with his troops. Another point which I have consistently made

Are you aware of the words 'mercenaries' and band of mercenaries"?

Again moron there is no such thing as Ashrafi caste.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims

I have stated this earlier before. It's another example of power consolidation. Even the Mughals settled tribes from Roh in hind. Many ruling families settled people of different ethnic backgrounds to consolidate power. It was not because they were crying out for pashtun nationhood or because of any tribal organization. It is a fact that tribalism took back seat in hind.

You have no understanding of power politics in medieval India or Afghan migration into Hind.

Its contrary to the historical facts

Firstly I am a Urdu speaker ( learn the difference between what modern day terminologies of Hindi and Urdu denote), Afghanistani charsi bacha baz, which took over as the ligua franca of the subcontinent from Persian and that is the reason that till this date Muslims all over the subcontinent speak Urdu and it is the national language of Pakistan. The reason I pointed out Persian was because the uncultured people of what is now KPK did not use Persian as language of their daily use either now or back then but Pathans of hind did along with Urdu. That's why Pashto lost significance very quickly. Which is another point differentiating the two.

Its Dari (shortened form of Darbari) of Afghanistan which was spoken in courts of Hindustan.

The reason they urdu speakers (Which you are equating to MQM) claim to be hiers of Mughals is because they are inheritors of their culture ex. Urdu was the official language of later Mughals (I can numerous other examples and they are not the only inheritors but it has nothing to do with you and your kind). Though it's development accelerated during Delhi sultanate. The culture created by Mughals and delhi dynasty filtered most strongly to muslims of UP and Nawabets of Oudh, Rampur, Deccan etc. and not to you tribals of Roh so off course they relate to them.

Now what Ghulam Kadir Rohilla did to household of Shah Alam badshah, was doing of a Pashtun or a Pathan of Hind which had nothing to do with Pashtuns of Roh? i am interested to know your answer.

HaHa my Maratha Kin.

Yes they are your Indian/Hindi kin....the Pashtuns in Karachi call you "Da Hindustan Mohajir"

Yes, these mercenaries did make a big impact for Bhalul lodi but that is beyond the point. bhalol lodi was not fighting under them they were fighting under bahlol lodhi and therefore history remembers bhalol lodi not them and therefore in the context in which I said this they did not change history, Bhalul lodi did.

They were no mercenaries. They responded to a call from a fellow Pashtun and helped him in the spirit of Pashtunwali. This is from Tarikh-i-Shershahi ;

"Kálú Khán, chief of the Mahmúd-khail, of the family of Sáhú-khail Bahlolí, was wounded in the engagement above mentioned, and Sultán Bahlol sent him a present of money by way of recompense; but he refused it, saying, “I did not come here to sell my wounds.” At the same time, many of the chiefs of name besought the king for leave to depart. The king entreated them to remain, but they said:—“We came on this occasion to succour and assist you, to save the reputation and honour of your women. Dismiss us now we entreat of you, hereafter we will again return to your service.”

Stop posting exaggerated bs from Afsana-i-Shahan which was written in Persian by Muhammad Kabir Bettani of Juanpur whose two previous generations were living in Hind. All these tribes were subjects of different kings (rebellious or not). It is a historically accepted fact. Stop reading bs from barmazid.com and read some proper literature on history.

Yes Mughals were able to establish rule over few tribes like Khattaks who were paid to safegarud the highway from Attock to Peshawar. But their rule was nominal over rest of the Roh. Thats why there are blanks in Ain-i-Akbari about revenue extracted from districts of Roh. In fact they had to bribe Afridis to keep the Khyber pass open.

Yeah, sure but he was living it. They did not like the idea of one being greater than the other compared to nobility of Turik origion but they thoroughly enjoyed the fruits of civilization. Modeled their architecture on great muslim architecture of hind. They were no longer bound to their tribe but subservient to a bangash even if their weren't bangash. Within a few years the stone throwing was put to an end by his descendant to the throne. Them being adverse to one calming to be superior to others does not mean they were adverse to Ashrafi life style. In two to three generations (at most) they were patrons of Urdu and Persian, the arts and life style of the nobility of Hind.

A Dalit boy would not dare to throw stone at Nawab of Awadh. Thats Pashtun for you. The snippet i shared with you illustrates the fact Nawab of Farrukhabad was eager to become "Indian" like you, but the egalitarian and democratic nature of Pashtuns was cause of frustration for him. So he founded a new city Farrukhabad which he probably populated only with Indianized people. Another similar episode is when during one of the campaign of Abdali, Khan Jehan (commander in chef of Ahmad Shah Abdali) was ready to set out for foray with his horsemen when he saw Zabita Khan in dholki like Indians. He scolded Zabita Khan for his Indian-ness and and arranged a horse for him.

 

[icebreaker2]

How come rulers of Hyderabad Deccan were servants of Rampur?.




Yea Indians like you are puzzled about us.


It doesnt . Nawabs of Rampur themselves recognized that they are of non-Pashtun roots. But instead of Jat boy , they assert that Ali Muhammad Khan found a Syed boy. So they claim to be Syeds. It shows their inferiority complex and pathetic mentality of "Ashraf" or what so ever. Its in the culture, a Pashtunized Jat was as enterprising as other Pashtuns.


Are you aware of the words 'mercenaries' and band of mercenaries"?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims




Its contrary to the historical facts




Its Dari (shortened form of Darbari) of Afghanistan which was spoken in courts of Hindustan.


Now what Ghulam Kadir Rohilla did to household of Shah Alam badshah, was doing of a Pashtun or a Pathan of Hind which had nothing to do with Pashtuns of Roh? i am interested to know your answer.



Yes they are your Indian/Hindi kin....the Pashtuns in Karachi call you "Da Hindustan Mohajir"



They were no mercenaries. They responded to a call from a fellow Pashtun and helped him in the spirit of Pashtunwali. This is from Tarikh-i-Shershahi ;

"Kálú Khán, chief of the Mahmúd-khail, of the family of Sáhú-khail Bahlolí, was wounded in the engagement above mentioned, and Sultán Bahlol sent him a present of money by way of recompense; but he refused it, saying, “I did not come here to sell my wounds.” At the same time, many of the chiefs of name besought the king for leave to depart. The king entreated them to remain, but they said:—“We came on this occasion to succour and assist you, to save the reputation and honour of your women. Dismiss us now we entreat of you, hereafter we will again return to your service.”



Yes Mughals were able to establish rule over few tribes like Khattaks who were paid to safegarud the highway from Attock to Peshawar. But their rule was nominal over rest of the Roh. Thats why there are blanks in Ain-i-Akbari about revenue extracted from districts of Roh. In fact they had to bribe Afridis to keep the Khyber pass open.



A Dalit boy would not dare to throw stone at Nawab of Awadh. Thats Pashtun for you. The snippet i shared with you illustrates the fact Nawab of Farrukhabad was eager to become "Indian" like you, but the egalitarian and democratic nature of Pashtuns was cause of frustration for him. So he founded a new city Farrukhabad which he probably populated only with Indianized people. Another similar episode is when during one of the campaign of Abdali, Khan Jehan (commander in chef of Ahmad Shah Abdali) was ready to set out for foray with his horsemen when he saw Zabita Khan in dholki like Indians. He scolded Zabita Khan for his Indian-ness and and arranged a horse for him.

'Yea Indians like you are puzzled about us'

Come out of your fantasy land Afghanistani Charsi and don't try to glorify your shit existence

'It doesnt . Nawabs of Rampur themselves recognized that they are of non-Pashtun roots. But instead of Jat boy , they assert that Ali Muhammad Khan found a Syed boy. So they claim to be Syeds. It shows their inferiority complex and pathetic mentality of "Ashraf" or what so ever. Its in the culture, a Pashtunized Jat was as enterprising as other Pashtuns.'

I know what they claim charsi. The origin is disputed and I showed you why 'Gulistan-i-Rahmat' can not be taken as a undisputed source and that was the purpose of screenshot.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_among_South_Asian_Muslims

There is no such thing as Ashrafi caste moron.


Its contrary to the historical facts

It is a fact

Its Dari (shortened form of Darbari) of Afghanistan which was spoken in courts of Hindustan.

Dari of Afghanistan? Afghansitan didn't exist back then. Origin of the word Dari is disputed and what exactly are you trying to say here
'Now what Ghulam Kadir Rohilla did to household of Shah Alam badshah, was doing of a Pashtun or a Pathan of Hind which had nothing to do with Pashtuns of Roh? i am interested to know your answer.'

What point are you trying to make by mentioning this maniac and reviled historical figure? You have completely lost your mind to chars.


HaHa my Maratha Kin.

Yes they are your Indian/Hindi kin....the Pashtuns in Karachi call you "Da Hindustan Mohajir"

You are a complete idiot aren't you. Mohajirs call themselves mohajir, Afghanistani charsi. Maratha were Indian/Hindi lol

'They were no mercenaries. They responded to a call from a fellow Pashtun and helped him in the spirit of Pashtunwali. This is from Tarikh-i-Shershahi ;

"Kálú Khán, chief of the Mahmúd-khail, of the family of Sáhú-khail Bahlolí, was wounded in the engagement above mentioned, and Sultán Bahlol sent him a present of money by way of recompense; but he refused it, saying, “I did not come here to sell my wounds.” At the same time, many of the chiefs of name besought the king for leave to depart. The king entreated them to remain, but they said:—“We came on this occasion to succour and assist you, to save the reputation and honour of your women. Dismiss us now we entreat of you, hereafter we will again return to your service.”'

Good for you. You at last found the name of one of your kind. I have already thoroughly debunked your bs.


'Yes Mughals were able to establish rule over few tribes like Khattaks who were paid to safegarud the highway from Attock to Peshawar. But their rule was nominal over rest of the Roh. Thats why there are blanks in Ain-i-Akbari about revenue extracted from districts of Roh. In fact they had to bribe Afridis to keep the Khyber pass open.'

Lol. Don't try to change history Hindutva follower. Afghans of Roh were ruled by numerous non-Afghan kings. nothing special about your lot


'A Dalit boy would not dare to throw stone at Nawab of Awadh. Thats Pashtun for you. The snippet i shared with you illustrates the fact Nawab of Farrukhabad was eager to become "Indian" like you, but the egalitarian and democratic nature of Pashtuns was cause of frustration for him. So he founded a new city Farrukhabad which he probably populated only with Indianized people. Another similar episode is when during one of the campaign of Abdali, Khan Jehan (commander in chef of Ahmad Shah Abdali) was ready to set out for foray with his horsemen when he saw Zabita Khan in dholki like Indians. He scolded Zabita Khan for his Indian-ness and and arranged a horse for him.'

I think you have run out of points and lost your mind. Stop writing stupid senseless rubbish. The reality of you Afghanisani Pathan tribal svages is in front of everyone to see. You are dirt poor, bachabaaz, opium addicted and uneducated. Worst then many Dalits who you hold in so much contempt.

I think you mean doli not dholki. 'He scolded Zabita Khan for his Indian-ness and and arranged a horse for him'. Care to quote the source.

 

[Hamza913]

Well, I dont have any beef in your fight but those who are mocking my country should remember that Mauryas and Hindu Shahis ruled their land for 550 years.

Age of the Nomads is the thing of past today all India have to do is press one button and your whole country will become glasshouse.

Be civilised, And respect others.

Regards.

And Muslims ruled over India for over 700 years. We can also turn India into a glasshouse with one push of a button too, mind you.