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Parting Shot : Defence Minister Says,' MoD only Ministry Which Was Above Politics, Leaving Behind Ar

This man inherited the armed forces in such a fine condition but he is leaving it in one of its worse periods in its entire history.and he has the audacity to call it a superb condition.
Shame on you Mr Antony for juggling with the safety of 1.25 billion people just so you could call it a corruption free department




He inherited the armed forces in fine condition? Are you f-ing serious? You and others are totally clueless as to the state of our military before UPA. Remember f-king Kargil. Whose watch was that under?



Without AK, the military was in a junk condition. Sry to say...but that it is the reality. We lacked muliple supplies. I am not giving him tons of credit, but it goes to show how much of a difference corruption impacts our forces.


How come you clueless fools ignore the impact he left on DRDO? Oh I see, you all like to cherry pick our facts! Has anyone of you ever taken a moment to see what was accomplished in the timeline since he took over? How about the steps he took to correct what was wrong with it? There is obviously still room for improvement but you cant deny it was under his watch.
 
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Pretty f-king clueless again ding dong. The bigger and more pressing issue is keeping politics out of defence, not the other way around. We are all here on this site observing what's being done without seeing the facts in front of him. Im sure he stalled procurements based on serious flaws in the process. Have you seen the arms looby and middlemen involved in Delhi? Do you realize how many ex military is involved? You are quick to assume its about keeping his image clean. How about its keeping the defence free of corruption. If you took a moment to think, you would realize ....corruption has marred our defence above anything else. MIg21 was an issue long before he came in.....same with the subs. MMRCA is an issue that he dealt with, but like I said we don't have all the facts.



Did you like Fernadez better? Because I pretty damn sure there is a lot of dirt on him also. My issue and concern with AK is that is a slave and a parrot to Sonai/Rahul...just like MMS. We are quick to blame AK but just like MMS, he had to answer to a higher authority. So if you truly want to place blame then place where it belongs on a family full of idiots. He toed the same line and never criticized when issues needed to be criticized. He is just like any other lame duck.



I cant stand the BJP, because they too have shown their incompetence int he past. I like what I believe Modi can do for India. But questions remain. We shall all see.





Thank God you have the ability to see that BS post




I rahter see not make a decision than make one full of errors. We have all seen how long it took to make our T72s have night vision? 30 odd yrs!
that's my point how do we know its an error...without even making a decision!!
 
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that's my point how do we know its an error...without even making a decision!!


Doing some background research work before making a decision is a smart move. In fact, it should be the only way to do business. Ask anyone working in a corporate enviroment. Hell, ask anyone who makes a decision. India's procurement process was serious mess long before AK ever showed up. YOu can clearly see that with the defenc e purchases made prior to him coming to office.
 
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Doing some background research work before making a decision is a smart move. In fact, it should be the only way to do business. Ask anyone working in a corporate enviroment. Hell, ask anyone who makes a decision. India's procurement process was serious mess long before AK ever showed up. YOu can clearly see that with the defenc e purchases made prior to him coming to office.
if you referring to bofors...it scam pertaining to kickbacks and not about their quality perse....so if AK wants to save his name....by not taking decision so his image can be clean...without taking national security into consideration...is wat we don't want from DM!!!
and regatding background checks...i agree with it should be done and it is done...
if you take light utility helicopter case...the rfp was scrapped twice after trails over i.e background checks on performamce and operating costs...simply bcos he is apprehensive and want keep himself safe....and leaving national security to winds....
and other deal was mmrca....he could've speed up the process if he want to...but instead he decided to ahead with transport aircraft deal both... c130 and c17 both equalling 8-9 billion dollars....which are lower down in priority list when compared to mmrca or luh...
i would say the last decade where india shouldve modernized at fairly rapid pace... consdering increasing volitilty in east asia.... it is as it was a decade ago!!! army especially!!!
 
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Today was farewell tea of outgoing Defence Minister AK Antony, for which I was invited directly by the Minister (not by his spokesperson). Antony conceded Congress' defeat in the 2014 LS polls, said writing was on the wall, they knew they would lose.

Someone asked him about his best and worst moments, anything that he regretted, any unfinished task, he said he was largely satisfied.

Media farewell was his last job on his last day today, as meeting the media was the first thing he did on his first day, so as a gesture of completion of his tenure, he had to wind up, again with the media, today.

He said this was the only Ministry which was the least tensed, meaning everything was cordial, he had excellent relations with the armed forces, and the services among themselves, under him. He also said he kept MoD above politics, there was no politics , only in this Ministry, gave the example of how army did rescue and relief during disasters, without asking victims their religion (eg Assam).

'Armed forces are in superb condition, they are at their best ever', said Antony.

He ducked political questions. He'll devote more time to his State of Kerala. Being a Rajya Sabha MP, he'll be in Parliament. Said Congress will be back with a bang. I said Sir, will the country see an Antony wave in 2019, he said nothing.

He didnt show any remorse over Naval Chief DK Joshi's resignation, when someone asked if he regretted.


Chindits: Parting Shot : Defence Minister Says,' MoD only Ministry Which Was Above Politics, Leaving Behind Armed Forces In Best Ever Condition/Position'


Good riddance, his idea of "best condition" and mine differ greatly.



Pr!ck- why does this even need to be said? Is there any such precedent? No. A despicable politician through and through.
A lame duck department scared of conducting any business throughout his tenure, is bound to insulate itself from any external influence. It's like shutting the shutter down on the shop.. & then saying I have protected the shop from the burglars! Bizarre...
 
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c130 and c17 both equalling 8-9 billion dollars....which are lower down in priority list when compared to mmrca or luh...
Reason being both were bought and selected under the single-vendor FMS which not only guarantees everything is above board but also means there is no need for comparative selection processes which is incredibly time consuming and opens the door to unsuccessful firms lodging complaints and stalling the entire process- the RSH/LUH is a primary example of this. This contract should have been signed 3-4 years ago goddammit and Antony has been sitting on it for more than 2 years now and all he had to do was use his discretion and the procurement would have moved foreword but because of his desire to protect himself above all else the procurement is in no-man's land and god knows what is going on with it.
 
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Reason being both were bought and selected under the single-vendor FMS which not only guarantees everything is above board but also means there is no need for comparative selection processes which is incredibly time consuming and opens the door to unsuccessful firms lodging complaints and stalling the entire process- the RSH/LUH is a primary example of this. This contract should have been signed 3-4 years ago goddammit and Antony has been sitting on it for more than 2 years now and all he had to do was use his discretion and the procurement would have moved foreword but because of his desire to protect himself above all else the procurement is in no-man's land and god knows what is going on with it.

:) Man you really are on a rant and got completely biased towards him now. C130J and C17 were not faster because they were FMS route procurements, but because they were just procurements in low numbers and with specialised requirements and therefor there wasn't really a competition (the later also for political reasons, but that's another issue).
Take the M777 howitzer procurement, the ATGM procurement, or even the P8I procurement, all competitions, even if the final procurement goes through FMS route and ALL of them had their own set of delays! So FMS is not the golden way to not get delays.
You are also wrong about the LUH competition, because the first re-issue was based on the fact that IA's RFPs did not clearly stated if civil or military versions could be the base of the offer, so once again a mistake in the RFP of the forces, while the recent issue of the competition is not based on a complaint by a loosing vendor, but that MoD sees a relation in terms of corruption in that and the VIP helicopter competition (which I can't see at all).
And how can the LUH contract been signed 3-4 years ago, when the forces still evaluated the helicopters in 2011/12 (Leh trials)?

So basically all your accusations are wrong and that because you are trying to make him look self oriented, ONLY because he tried to follow the rules and tried to keep the defence procurement clean! You are attacking him because he is the head, but you are ignoring all those that caused the briberies and corruption cases, which are officers in the forces. Every failed or delayed indigenous development was blamed on him and not the project managers and scientists. General VK Singh that is more acting like a politician with a clear self centric policy, or the former Admiral were heros suddently, although the biggest mishaps and shortcomings happend under their watch.

Antony was far too soft for too long against the forces and scientists, he should have integrated a joint chief and he should have set limits to when an investigation is started or that an evaluation is put on hold only after an issue is proven, or that he allowed monopolies of DRDO and Co. But to claim he did everything wrong, because he wanted to have a clean image, rather than a clean defence is just as the bogus reports about IN being weaker than 10 years ago or not combat ready! :disagree:

The fact remains, that our forces are far stronger and far more capable than by the time he took over!
The fact is, that he focused the defence procurement on ToT and offsets back into our industry to improve it and get more foreign vendors to India for defence production (Airbus, Boeing, LM, Sikorsky, AW, the Russian vendors...all are based in India now and divert credible ammounts of production to India!)
The fact is, that he constantly invited the privat Indian industry to play a bigger role in Indian defence (the last was the offer to take over the Avro replacement, or the Pilatus production instead of giving it to HAL, but it's the privat industry that keeps rejecting it!)
The fact is, that he pushed the procurement strategy not only to competition to reduce costs and gain side bendefits, but now also geared it to combine the production in India with Indian partners (government owned or private) like in the FICV, the howitzer competitions, or even MMRCA.
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If we look at both sides, it's hard to deny that he pushed more in favour for the Indian defence industry than anybody before, be it through indigenous developments, JVs, co-developments, licence productions, offsets and ToT. It was under his watch that we got possibly the most crucial co-developments for the future, be it Brahmos, FGFA, MTA, or Barak 8 and we can only hope that the next DM will follow his ways for more co-developments for India as an industrial hub for the global defence, because that's the best for India and Indias defence!
 
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Reason being both were bought and selected under the single-vendor FMS which not only guarantees everything is above board but also means there is no need for comparative selection processes which is incredibly time consuming and opens the door to unsuccessful firms lodging complaints and stalling the entire process- the RSH/LUH is a primary example of this. This contract should have been signed 3-4 years ago goddammit and Antony has been sitting on it for more than 2 years now and all he had to do was use his discretion and the procurement would have moved foreword but because of his desire to protect himself above all else the procurement is in no-man's land and god knows what is going on with it.
my point is which ever procurement process u choose...do it quickly already...simply to keep one's image clean cant risk lives of jawans pilots sailor's....
and also priorties are also not followed... when army is in dire need of arty....wat hell the immediate need to give orders of transport aircraft... sure they could wait...
but arty...i don't think so!!!
 
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C130J and C17 were not faster because they were FMS route procurements, but because they were just procurements in low numbers and with specialised requirements and therefor there wasn't really a competition (the later also for political reasons, but that's another issue).
Take the M777 howitzer procurement, the ATGM procurement, or even the P8I procurement, all competitions, even if the final procurement goes through FMS route and ALL of them had their own set of delays! So FMS is not the golden way to not get delays.
Sir, I'm not saying FMS automatically equals faster selection. I'm just saying the nature of the C-130J and C-17 deals wherein they were single-vendor procurements is where the real time savings occurred but the FMS simply allowed for the deals to go through without anyone able to question them as the FMS process is inherently above board on all fronts as it is a govt-govt deal with no middle men involved which is usually where things get stuck in Indian military procurements.



As for Antony, sure I'll concede he has done some good on the anti-corruption front (whether this is motivated by his desire to keep himself clean or out of a genuine interest to clean up the MoD is irrelevant) however there is simply no doubt he has stalled certain deals purely because he wants to keep his own image untarnished. If you want me to talk specifics I shall, let's look at the RSH deal, every Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) meeting since late 2012 has had the RSH procurement tabled but EVERY TIME he has deferred a decision. There is no investigation running nor is there and plans to scrap the deal, it is just sitting there stagnating- he didn't have the b@lls to make a decision either way. It is a FACT he could have used his personal discretion to push through the deal but he has chosen inaction which is the worst possible thing he could have done as there is no movement either way. The IA and IAF are quite happy to induct the Fennec and it is a damn sight superior to the aged Chetaks and Cheetahs currently in service that do crash from time to time and the fleet as a whole is likely to face issues with availability.

Similarly he could have stood up to the Finance Ministry and made the case for the A330 MRTT back in 2011 but instead he sat back and allowed it to be scrapped only for 3 years later for the A330 MRTT to be found the best machine. Yes I know life-cycle costs weren't factored in the first time but still, doesn't this strike you as a truly absurd set of circumstances?


Then there is the Augusta Westland debacle, the CBI is still yet to formally charge any Indian in this affair, the CBI's investigation is yet to come back with its findings and yet Antony, in an attempt to save his image has taken the unprecedented decision to unilaterally cancel the deal (with 3 units already delivered in India ) based on nothing more then circumstantial evidence and has initiated steps to blacklist Finmeccanica a sa whole jeopardising countless Indian defence deals which you can see the consequences yourself- Black Shark torpedoes for the Scorpenes. So shaky is Antony's logic that Augusta Westland is taking the Indian Govt to arbitration a case the GoI is sure to lose.


Thanks to Antony he has made India look like a pretty treacherous and undesirable market for firms to participate in. The decisions he has made are so inconsistent that it make firms nervous and rightly so.
 
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Either Narendra Modi should retain Defence portfolio, or get competent ministers who can expedite procurement, and manage research.

Ideally there should be a associate position raised to deal purely with internal r&d allocations and private sector developments in defense.

A.K Anthony was one of the most useless defense ministers in the history of India, He institutionalized the culture of inaction... His tenure is a good guideline of "what not to do" in the MoD.
 
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If we look at both sides, it's hard to deny that he pushed more in favour for the Indian defence industry than anybody before, be it through indigenous developments, JVs, co-developments, licence productions, offsets and ToT. It was under his watch that we got possibly the most crucial co-developments for the future, be it Brahmos, FGFA, MTA, or Barak 8 and we can only hope that the next DM will follow his ways for more co-developments for India as an industrial hub for the global defence, because that's the best for India and Indias defence!

To start with AK Anthony was never qualified to be DM, (neither were Mulayam, pawar, rajiv, rao, fernandez or mukherjee); hopefully that would change this time around.

As for the highlighted part, please post more specifics to understand his key role, initiative, directives w.r.t indigenous developments, JVs, co-developments, licence productions, offsets and ToT.
 
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To start with AK Anthony was never qualified to be DM, (neither were Mulayam, pawar, rajiv, rao, fernandez or mukherjee); hopefully that would change this time around.

As for the highlighted part, please post more specifics to understand his key role, initiative, directives w.r.t indigenous developments, JVs, co-developments, licence productions, offsets and ToT.

We mallus know him very well...But i have spoken to few from military and he has lot of support in army, be it a jawan or an officer...... He has done lot of things in welfare of the army ( i mean all the 3 services).... He was the least corrupt DM probably..... and with the kind of scams which his government faced, he managed to keep defense away from it (other than aghosta scam)....

But was he an efficient Defence Minister????? I would agree with you and my answer is a big fat "NO"
 
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