Parrikar ponders making IAF basic trainers in India

[CONNAN]

With the Modi government’s Make in India initiative on his mind, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has asked the Indian Air Force (IAF) to submit a status report on utilisation of Swiss Pilatus PC-7 basic trainer aircraft before okaying the option of purchasing 106 more such planes.

The follow-up purchase will cost the nation about Rs 7,000 crore. The then UPA government had in May 2012 ordered 75 Pilatus trainers in a deal worth `2,896 crore.

South Block sources said Parrikar wants to know whether the current fleet of 62 Pilatus trainers — out of 75 inducted aircraft — is being utilised properly, with each plane logging between 150 and 200 flying hours every month. Apparently, the minister wants additional basic trainers to be jointly manufactured as part of the Make in India initiative rather than be bought off the shelf from abroad.

US under secretary of acquisition, technology and logistics Frank Kendall arrives in India on Wednesday to discuss this option among other items for bilateral defence cooperation with secretary (defence production) G Mohan Kumar.

Top sources say Prime Minister Narendra Modi had discussed the Make in India option for basic trainers with US President Barack Obama during his India visit last month. The other contenders for basic trainers are US Beechcraft T-6 and German Grob G 115. The manufacturers of both types are said to be enthused by the Make in India plan.

The IAF prepares its fighter pilots after training them on basic trainers, intermediate jet trainers and advanced jet trainers, in that order. Last November, the IAF had moved the defence acquisition council for exercising the option of purchasing another 106 aircraft, with total requirement set at 181 aircraft. Under this proposal India was to buy 38 Pilatus planes off the shelf and domestically produce remaining 68 at the IAF’s Sulur facility near Coimbatore, or purchase 10 aircraft outright and make the remaining 96 in India.

Parrikar ponders making IAF basic trainers in India

 

[Abingdonboy]

With the Modi government’s Make in India initiative on his mind, defence minister Manohar Parrikar has asked the Indian Air Force (IAF) to submit a status report on utilisation of Swiss Pilatus PC-7 basic trainer aircraft before okaying the option of purchasing 106 more such planes.

The follow-up purchase will cost the nation about Rs 7,000 crore. The then UPA government had in May 2012 ordered 75 Pilatus trainers in a deal worth `2,896 crore.

South Block sources said Parrikar wants to know whether the current fleet of 62 Pilatus trainers — out of 75 inducted aircraft — is being utilised properly, with each plane logging between 150 and 200 flying hours every month. Apparently, the minister wants additional basic trainers to be jointly manufactured as part of the Make in India initiative rather than be bought off the shelf from abroad.

US under secretary of acquisition, technology and logistics Frank Kendall arrives in India on Wednesday to discuss this option among other items for bilateral defence cooperation with secretary (defence production) G Mohan Kumar.

Top sources say Prime Minister Narendra Modi had discussed the Make in India option for basic trainers with US President Barack Obama during his India visit last month. The other contenders for basic trainers are US Beechcraft T-6 and German Grob G 115. The manufacturers of both types are said to be enthused by the Make in India plan.

The IAF prepares its fighter pilots after training them on basic trainers, intermediate jet trainers and advanced jet trainers, in that order. Last November, the IAF had moved the defence acquisition council for exercising the option of purchasing another 106 aircraft, with total requirement set at 181 aircraft. Under this proposal India was to buy 38 Pilatus planes off the shelf and domestically produce remaining 68 at the IAF’s Sulur facility near Coimbatore, or purchase 10 aircraft outright and make the remaining 96 in India.

Parrikar ponders making IAF basic trainers in India

Wow, is he really trying to take the credit for something the IAF proposed a long time ago:


One option is to buy 38 Pilatus off-the-shelf, with the rest 68 being produced by the 5 Base Repair Depot (BRD) of IAF at Sulur. Other options could include importing only 10 BTA, with 96 being made in India.

India likely to order 106 more Pilatus aircraft to train pilots - The Times of India

 

[Echo_419]

Wow, is he really trying to take the credit for something the IAF proposed a long time ago:


One option is to buy 38 Pilatus off-the-shelf, with the rest 68 being produced by the 5 Base Repair Depot (BRD) of IAF at Sulur. Other options could include importing only 10 BTA, with 96 being made in India.

India likely to order 106 more Pilatus aircraft to train pilots - The Times of India

That's Politics for you buddy

 

[Tshering22]

What's there to ponder? He should set a target for HAL; if they fail to deliver it with all permissions granted, fire the entire team.

Unless he, ruthless with them, these PSUs won't change. Especially HAL.

 

[AMCA]

What's there to ponder? He should set a target for HAL; if they fail to deliver it with all permissions granted, fire the entire team.

Unless he, ruthless with them, these PSUs won't change. Especially HAL.

Well I don't think HAL is gonna manufacture this. The proposal is to manufacture it in Base Repair Depot (BRD) of IAF.

 

[Tshering22]

Well I don't think HAL is gonna manufacture this. The proposal is to manufacture it in Base Repair Depot (BRD) of IAF.

That's just a proposal.

A BRD has the maximum capability of overhauling an aircraft or helicopter. It doesn't possess the capability to officiate an assembly line and run it successfully. There are a lot of factors that go into simple aircraft assembly, let alone designing, development, testing, fielding and final induction.

 

[AMCA]

That's just a proposal.

A BRD has the maximum capability of overhauling an aircraft or helicopter. It doesn't possess the capability to officiate an assembly line and run it successfully. There are a lot of factors that go into simple aircraft assembly, let alone designing, development, testing, fielding and final induction.

I do understand that . Apparently its just a proposal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What's there to ponder? He should set a target for HAL; if they fail to deliver it with all permissions granted, fire the entire team.

Unless he, ruthless with them, these PSUs won't change. Especially HAL.

HAL have had decades to develop the HTT-40 while the Deepak was killing and crippling young pilots and they did NOTHING. It was only when the IAF was FORCED to go for a fast track process to select a foreign BTT that HAL actually woke up and started promising the HTT-40 to the IAF, and that too quoting a higher price than the IAF is paying for the PC-7s, I mean it is beyond a joke.

AND STILL THE HTT-40 REMAINS A WODDEN MOCKUP.

HAL have made their bed on the BTT front, no sense in having two BTTs in the AF, order 106 more PC-7s and try and get as many of them made in India. These are dependable and proven machines and Pilatus have done a good job in delivering on time (the IAF had requested the orders be delivered faster than usual remember and they were).

 

[Tshering22]

HAL have had decades to develop the HTT-40 while the Deepak was killing and crippling young pilots and they did NOTHING. It was only when the IAF was FORCED to go for a fast track process to select a foreign BTT that HAL actually woke up and started promising the HTT-40 to the IAF, and that too quoting a higher price than the IAF is paying for the PC-7s, I mean it is beyond a joke.

AND STILL THE HTT-40 REMAINS A WODDEN MOCKUP.

HAL have made their bed on the BTT front, no sense in having two BTTs in the AF, order 106 more PC-7s and try and get as many of them made in India. These are dependable and proven machines and Pilatus have done a good job in delivering on time (the IAF had requested the orders be delivered faster than usual remember and they were).

I agree with you but as you know, HAL doesn't really have the leverage to go ahead and work like Western corporations. They will work only when cleared to go ahead by politicians and bureaucrats. They weren't. On top of that, they are useless when it comes to stand-alone innovations.

This is why I said, the PM and the DM both should actively hunt HAL and ask them to make it in time. If they fail, sack the entire team including the program director and make them a living example of what happens when you compromise on national defence capability.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I agree with you but as you know, HAL doesn't really have the leverage to go ahead and work like Western corporations. They will work only when cleared to go ahead by politicians and bureaucrats. They weren't. On top of that, they are useless when it comes to stand-alone innovations.

This is why I said, the PM and the DM both should actively hunt HAL and ask them to make it in time. If they fail, sack the entire team including the program director and make them a living example of what happens when you compromise on national defence capability.

Whatever the reason, they have failed and it would take too long to develop, test and certify the HTT-40 now when an off the shelf, cheaper and already in service machine is ready to be purchased. No sense in putting off the inevitable.

Just write the HTT-40 off, HAL should stop devoting even a single rupee to this project and focus on projects that have tangible chances of success- LCA, AMCA FGFA and Rafale production. If they focus on this they will be lightyears ahead of where they are today.

 

[sancho]

Just write the HTT-40 off

HTT40 - HAL
Saras - NAL
AWACS India - DRDO
Current AMCA - ADA

All projects that are either not needed, or simply developed with the wrong aims in mind.

 

[Didact]

HTT40 - HAL
Saras - NAL
AWACS India - DRDO
Current AMCA - ADA

All projects that are either not needed, or simply developed with the wrong aims in mind.

Saras might be meaningless, but the others, absolutely not. These are long lead projects that take a very long time to develop, and it's better that their development start now, and not when we actually are desperate for them.

Or else in 2030 we will be having the same circular debate, as to why India did not invest in the AMCA and the AWACS India project

 

[sancho]

Saras might be meaningless, but the others, absolutely not.

HTT 40 is meaningless for the same reason Saras is, it so delayed that the forced needed to buy foreign alternatives in the meantime (Pilatus and Do 228), which leaves next to no requirement left and therefor the project is unviable.
AMCA and DRDO AWACS are not even wanted by the IAF today, which is suppose to be the main customer, which says a lot. There is enough time to develop both, if needed in the 2030+ timeframe, as replacements for the MKI and A50 Phalcons, but today, the FGFA and the EMB145I are the needed developments.