Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Shane]

laken ab jo hoga behtar hi hoga...bura isse zyada ho nahi sakta.

Jaisay 70 saal say jo ho raha haay woh behtar hee ho raha haay... In reality ho ga woh jiss ki niyat ho gee i.e. utmost restraint, and least action to leave the over all status quo intact, aur label best national interest ka ho ga. Just watch the group led by Riaz Pirzada, the epitome of status quo. That is why I am always impressed by the choice of name by our friend @Realistic Change

To Add:

This GHATIYA ADMI (NS) is now returning "after" he has been indicted in absence

EXACTLY!

 

[El Sidd]

Jaisay 70 saal say jo ho raha haay woh behtar hee ho raha haay... In reality ho ga woh jiss ki niyat ho gee i.e. utmost restraint, and least action to leave the over all status quo intact, aur label best national interest ka ho ga. Just watch the group led by Riaz Pirzada, the epitome of status quo. That is why I am always impressed by the choice of name by our friend @Realistic Change


EXACTLY!

SC kay aala tareen chief justice ye aaj keh chuke hain kay mulki mafaad me khamosh or bardaasht rakhen hon.....
per game haath se nikal gaya hai inke bhi...

point is simple.... masoom logon ka khoon bohat gir chuka hai isliye anarchy se bachne ki koshish hai

ye bare bare naam kitne be mainay lagte hai jab qabar pe likhe jatay hain.. samajh len ye hona hai

 

[Shane]

Let's go out on a limb and do some forecasting. If the "neyat" of doing the right thing as in justice in letter and spirit is the actual "neyat" and not an eye wash then the following should happen: "Nawaz should be reindicted upon his return" otherwise it should be clear as to the deliberate loop hole being left.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Let's me go out on a limb and do some forecasting. If the "neyat" of doing the right thing as in justice in letter and spirit is the actual "neyat" and not an eye wash then the following should happen: "Nawaz should be reindicted upon his return" otherwise it should be clear as to the deliberate loop hole being left.

Is "reindictment" a legal possibility?

 

[Shane]

AllahuAkbar!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pana...sion-and-updates.510272/page-250#post-9953780

After I wrote the above reply to @Dil Pakistan , Someone just shared the following clip of Nawaz. His posturing proves the dreaded point about indictment in absentia :

 

[Dil Pakistan]

AllahuAkbar!

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pana...sion-and-updates.510272/page-250#post-9953780

After I wrote the above reply to @Dil Pakistan , Someone just shared the following clip of Nawaz. His posturing proves the dreaded point about indictment in absentia :

May be someone with better knowledge and understanding can comment on this issue - this issue does need clarification and understanding.

Surprising to see that this "head of Patwaris" can remember and recite poetry without reading from a paper.

He is only trying to attack judiciary in this way.

 

[Shane]

Is "reindictment" a legal possibility?

If indictment in absentia is adjudged as legal despite SCP verdict against it then so should reindictment be considered as legal otherwise it should be obvious that "daal maen kuch kala nahee, poori daal hi kali haay" to second @Farah Sohail.

 

[Rank]

Another Bakwas aur JHOOT of Nooni Cartoons busted by Hamid Mir today, NAB was not established by Gen. Musharaf. Musharaf took charged of the state in 99. NAB was established by NAWAZ SHARIF in 1997 and Saif-ur-Rehman appointed as a head of NAB. The plan was to victimize PPP and other political parties members through NAB. jhootoon ka tabar jhota makaar tola aur inkay ch***** supporter b wesay he...

Nooni Cartooons kay saath in short huwa ye hey kay kay

poray tabar ka huwa hey Khulam Khula HARDCORE Rape lol not only in front of 4 person but in front of entire world. Ub loog insay sympathy share karnay atay hain kay kafi afsoos huwa ye ulta kahtay hain 4 gawa laoo... sare dunya kah rahe hey bhai aap ki video b hey aur woh viral b hogaye hey whatsapp pe likin ye abhe b kah rahay hain 4 gawa laoo hahahhaa

 

[Shane]

May be someone with better knowledge and understanding can comment on this issue - this issue does need clarification and understandin

I have done some sweeping around on this topic of indictment in absentia and got a bit more relevent detail.

According to senior lawyer Anwar Mansor,
NAB law does allow indictment in absentia and refers to such indictmen in its article 17 that the accused can be indicted in absentia if it is adjudged that the accused is trying to avoid indictment deliberately.

I am sure that there is no question of leaving a loop hole for a chance at a come back in better times, keeping in mind the following:

That Nawaz intentionally, meaningfully and planned accordingly skipped court due to the given reason that he has to attend to his ailing wife.

That his senior representative lawyer Khwaja Haris was conveniently overseas at the time of indictment too.

That Nawaz has decided to return to face the court proceedings following his indictment in absentia.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I have done some sweeping around on this topic of indictment in absentia and got a bit more relevent detail.

According to senior lawyer Anwar Mansor,
NAB law does allow indictment in absentia and refers to such indictmen in its article 17 that the accused can be indicted in absentia if it is adjudged that the accused is trying to avoid indictment deliberately.

I am sure that there is no question of leaving a loop hole for a chance at a come back in better times, keeping in mind the following:

That Nawaz intentionally, meaningfully and planned accordingly skipped court due to the given reason that he has to attend to his ailing wife.

That his senior representative lawyer Khwaja Haris was conveniently overseas at the time of indictment too.

That Nawaz has decided to return to face the court proceedings following his indictment in absentia.

Thanks.

I was planning to write a similar post but you beat me on this.

I just watched Hamid Mir's Programme (Capital Talk).

Two Lawyers, Ahsen Rasheed and a Bajwa guy (not the COAS, another Bajwa) appeared.

Both have said that what has happened is completely legal. In addition to the content of your post, one more thing happened. A legal representative of the NS was present in the accountability court and this person accepted the indictment as the representative of the accused.

This is as good as the accused being personally present.

 

[PakSword]

Actually kia hai ke...3-4 days pehle jab SC ne Sheikh Rashid ki election bill ki petition wapis ki na..ye keh kar ke yahan kiun laaye hain? Doosre forum par kiun nahi le gaye...aur usay petition wapis kar di..us din main samajh gayi ke bas..sab topi drama horaha hai...

Don't you think it was a right step from SC? Why every matter is being brought to SC when a political party is already on a mission to malign this forum?

Already they are defending their hearing of Panama issue under 184 by not taking active part in the monitoring, don't you think another case would have put them under a lot of pressure?

High court bhi aik forum hai. If Sh. Rasheed is not happy with HC decision, only then SC's door should be knocked as a last resort.

Aur LHC ne shareefon ke khilaaf faisla diya tou hai.. Sugar mills transfer walay case ka.. yeh keh kar ke sirf aik hukumraan khandaan ko faida pohnchaya ja raha hai.. tou abb ki baar bhi bharosa karleney main koi harj nahi..

Election bill ko tu SC ne keh diya ke SC appropriate forum nahi hai.. Lekin Imran Khan jo ke kabhi bhi public office holder nahi raha hai.....uski disqualification ka case direct sunnay ke liye SC appropriate forum zuroor hai...loll.. Kis hadd tak drama chal raha hai?

IK ka case tou balance karnay ke liey lia gaya hai.. yeh uss waqt ki baat hai jab log direct SC ko approach nahi kar rahay thay har muamlay par.. abb tou har case SC ki taraf ja raha hai.. Halaat agar theek hotay.. aur hukukmat yeh perception nahi develop kar rahi hoti ke SC establishment ke saath mil kar koi saazish kar rahi hai, tou shayad SC yeh aur LNG, dono case le leti.. lekin abhi nahi le gi.. Mera apna khayal yeh hai ke Sh. Rasheed ko IHC jana chahiey, dono cases le kar.. aur IK ko bhi hibernation se nikal kar Sh. Rasheed ke saath mil kar kuch karna chahiey..

Ab main ne sabar kar liya hai..aur sochna chor diya hai.. Sabar kar liya hai ke yahan kuch nahi badalnay wala.. Jab SC ..aisi harkatein karrahi hai...sharif family ke saath leniency tu alag hi kahani hai..

Haan yeh tou hai... ke leniency tou dikhai ja rahi hai... lekin sirf shareef family ko mulk se bahir karnay ke liey.. There is no chance.. I repeat no chance of Nawaz or Maryam coming to power again.. chahay yeh kuchh bhi karlain..

yeh inn ki sab se kam saza hai.. iss se ziada tou hosakti hai.. iss se kam nahi hosakti.. iss se ziada usi soorat hosakti hai jaisay main pichlay kafi weeks se chilla raha hun ke agar NS khud chahay ke main apna sar deewar par marunga.. tou usay koi nahi rokay ga.. lekin inn harkaton se woh dobara iqtedaar main nahi aasakta.. There is no way..

Aik India ka supporter honay ka perception buhat hai donon baap beti ke liey... iss mulk ki power se alag karne ke liey.. woh hochuka.. abb next step hai.. agar yeh log tasadum ki rah par chaltay rahay tou daulat bhi jaegi, aur mazeed kuchh kia tou jail bhi hogi in shaa Allah... lekin agar Sharafat se bhaaag gaey, aur convict hogaey tou wapsi ka raasta band..

Ab na mujhe kisi ke CJ bannay ka intezar hai...aur na hi mujhe koi farq parta hai ke koi CJ banay ya na banay.. I dont care..

umeedein tootnay par dukh hota hai..lekin ab mujhe sukoon aur sabar aagaya hai..ke yahan kuch badal hi nahi sakta..tu koi umeed hi nahi.. Ab mujhe kisi cheez ki bechaini nahi hai ke kiya hoga?

Isi liey main ne tou ummeed hi nahi lagai thee.. mujhay tou pehlay hi kuchh logon ne ishara de dia tha ke kia honay wala hai aur main ne unn isharon ko apni samajh ke mutabiq yahan share kardia tha.. uss waqt mujhay bhi dukh hua tha.. lekin jo Pakistani qaum ke halaat hain.. jo main ne NA 120 main halat dekhi.. uss par mujhay laga ke iss mulk main jahan donkeys kasrat se paey jatay hon.. aur aik corrupt aadmi ko apni jaan maal dene ko tayyar hon, uss mulk main faislay Hazrat Umar (RA) ke daur ke nahi hua kartay.. ho hi nahi saktay.. impossible..

I have done some sweeping around on this topic of indictment in absentia and got a bit more relevent detail.

According to senior lawyer Anwar Mansor,
NAB law does allow indictment in absentia and refers to such indictmen in its article 17 that the accused can be indicted in absentia if it is adjudged that the accused is trying to avoid indictment deliberately.

I am sure that there is no question of leaving a loop hole for a chance at a come back in better times, keeping in mind the following:

That Nawaz intentionally, meaningfully and planned accordingly skipped court due to the given reason that he has to attend to his ailing wife.

That his senior representative lawyer Khwaja Haris was conveniently overseas at the time of indictment too.

That Nawaz has decided to return to face the court proceedings following his indictment in absentia.

Actually, there is a strong case against Nawaz. SC has given 60 days timeline and Nawaz is avoiding the hearings, so article 17 can be applied.. there is no issue of legality here.. I think accountability court has taken the right decision.

Absentia ke cases uss waqt human rights ka masla bantay hain, jab koi mojud hi na ho.. uss ka pata hi na chal raha ho ke kahan gaya.. ya phir koi medical or other "valid" reasons ki wajah se court hearing attend hi nahi karsakta ho..

Yahan Nawaz hearing main aaya hai.. uss ko koi beemari nahi.. uss ki begum beemar hai, lekin she is being taken care of by her two sons and their families.. tou koi chakkar hi nahi hai ke absentia ka koi masla ho..

Plus.. uss ne hearing attend ki theen.. Yesterday tou sirf indictment honi thi.. aur uss ka lawyer mojud tha..

Tou ganja yeh rona ro hi nahi sakta..

@Dil Pakistan

 

[Dil Pakistan]

Actually, there is a strong case against Nawaz. SC has given 60 days timeline and Nawaz is avoiding the hearings, so article 17 can be applied.. there is no issue of legality here.. I think accountability court has taken the right decision.

Absentia ke cases uss waqt human rights ka masla bantay hain, jab koi mojud hi na ho.. uss ka pata hi na chal raha ho ke kahan gaya.. ya phir koi medical or other "valid" reasons ki wajah se court hearing attend hi nahi karsakta ho..

Yahan Nawaz hearing main aaya hai.. uss ko koi beemari nahi.. uss ki begum beemar hai, lekin she is being taken care of by her two sons and their families.. tou koi chakkar hi nahi hai ke absentia ka koi masla ho..

Plus.. uss ne hearing attend ki theen.. Yesterday tou sirf indictment honi thi.. aur uss ka lawyer mojud tha..

Tou ganja yeh rona ro hi nahi sakta..

@Dil Pakistan

Thank you very much indeed @PakSword

You have exactly clarified the points I was really looking for and I have highlighted them.

Many thanks.

Mujhey lagta hey ganjay kay saath aaj bara haath ho gaya hey .... or woh bhi bilkul khamoshi sey.

Don't you think it was a right step from SC? Why every matter is being brought to SC when a political party is already on a mission to malign this forum?

Already they are defending their hearing of Panama issue under 184 by not taking active part in the monitoring, don't you think another case would have put them under a lot of pressure?

High court bhi aik forum hai. If Sh. Rasheed is not happy with HC decision, only then SC's door should be knocked as a last resort.

Aur LHC ne shareefon ke khilaaf faisla diya tou hai.. Sugar mills transfer walay case ka.. yeh keh kar ke sirf aik hukumraan khandaan ko faida pohnchaya ja raha hai.. tou abb ki baar bhi bharosa karleney main koi harj nahi..



IK ka case tou balance karnay ke liey lia gaya hai.. yeh uss waqt ki baat hai jab log direct SC ko approach nahi kar rahay thay har muamlay par.. abb tou har case SC ki taraf ja raha hai.. Halaat agar theek hotay.. aur hukukmat yeh perception nahi develop kar rahi hoti ke SC establishment ke saath mil kar koi saazish kar rahi hai, tou shayad SC yeh aur LNG, dono case le leti.. lekin abhi nahi le gi.. Mera apna khayal yeh hai ke Sh. Rasheed ko IHC jana chahiey, dono cases le kar.. aur IK ko bhi hibernation se nikal kar Sh. Rasheed ke saath mil kar kuch karna chahiey..



Haan yeh tou hai... ke leniency tou dikhai ja rahi hai... lekin sirf shareef family ko mulk se bahir karnay ke liey.. There is no chance.. I repeat no chance of Nawaz or Maryam coming to power again.. chahay yeh kuchh bhi karlain..

yeh inn ki sab se kam saza hai.. iss se ziada tou hosakti hai.. iss se kam nahi hosakti.. iss se ziada usi soorat hosakti hai jaisay main pichlay kafi weeks se chilla raha hun ke agar NS khud chahay ke main apna sar deewar par marunga.. tou usay koi nahi rokay ga.. lekin inn harkaton se woh dobara iqtedaar main nahi aasakta.. There is no way..

Aik India ka supporter honay ka perception buhat hai donon baap beti ke liey... iss mulk ki power se alag karne ke liey.. woh hochuka.. abb next step hai.. agar yeh log tasadum ki rah par chaltay rahay tou daulat bhi jaegi, aur mazeed kuchh kia tou jail bhi hogi in shaa Allah... lekin agar Sharafat se bhaaag gaey, aur convict hogaey tou wapsi ka raasta band..







Isi liey main ne tou ummeed hi nahi lagai thee.. mujhay tou pehlay hi kuchh logon ne ishara de dia tha ke kia honay wala hai aur main ne unn isharon ko apni samajh ke mutabiq yahan share kardia tha.. uss waqt mujhay bhi dukh hua tha.. lekin jo Pakistani qaum ke halaat hain.. jo main ne NA 120 main halat dekhi.. uss par mujhay laga ke iss mulk main jahan donkeys kasrat se paey jatay hon.. aur aik corrupt aadmi ko apni jaan maal dene ko tayyar hon, uss mulk main faislay Hazrat Umar (RA) ke daur ke nahi hua kartay.. ho hi nahi saktay.. impossible..



Actually, there is a strong case against Nawaz. SC has given 60 days timeline and Nawaz is avoiding the hearings, so article 17 can be applied.. there is no issue of legality here.. I think accountability court has taken the right decision.

Absentia ke cases uss waqt human rights ka masla bantay hain, jab koi mojud hi na ho.. uss ka pata hi na chal raha ho ke kahan gaya.. ya phir koi medical or other "valid" reasons ki wajah se court hearing attend hi nahi karsakta ho..

Yahan Nawaz hearing main aaya hai.. uss ko koi beemari nahi.. uss ki begum beemar hai, lekin she is being taken care of by her two sons and their families.. tou koi chakkar hi nahi hai ke absentia ka koi masla ho..

Plus.. uss ne hearing attend ki theen.. Yesterday tou sirf indictment honi thi.. aur uss ka lawyer mojud tha..

Tou ganja yeh rona ro hi nahi sakta..

@Dil Pakistan

....Aur Mubarak ho ..... aap Maj General bun Gaye .... mein to abhi Captain hi hoon

 

[PakSword]

Mujhey lagta hey ganjay kay saath aaj bara haath ho gaya hey .... or woh bhi bilkul khamoshi sey.

Yeh haath kabhi nahi hota agar yeh pichlay kuchh din thori khamoshi ikhtiaar karleta.. aur apni beti ko bhi munh band kar ke UK main hamesha ki sakoonat ikhtiar karnay par razi karleta..

Lekin you are right.. yeh haath hogaya hai..

Aur iss ke wapis aanay ke baad iss se ziada bara haath honay wala hai..

Have you noticed today that due to the threat of Rangers (due to new Chairman NAB) kitni izzat se peshi huee hai aaj?

ziada log jama nahi thay.. izzat se Maryam aayee.. adalat main bethi.. koi selfies nahi utareen..

aur bahir aanay ke baad jitni hawaiyan uri huee theen uss ke chehray par.. woh sab kuchh bata rahi theen ke kia chal raha hai dimaagh main..

Abhi inn ke saath aur bura honay wala hai.. kyun ke yeh larnay ke liey tayyar hain..

 

[Shane]

They won't go down so easily without a dirty fight, legal and political.

A legal representative of the NS was present in the accountability court and this person accepted the indictment as the representative of the accused.

This is as good as the accused being personally present.

I am not saying that it was illegal but the law is such that it can be used and abused, like they can try to take advantage of the SCP verdict against indictment in absentia and you must consider their strategy to find any and every minute possibility, one such possibility is also of agreeable judges like Ch.Iftikhar who favoured them in cases when he was CJP.

Tou ganja yeh rona ro hi nahi sakta.

You are missing the point. Ganja rona shuru bhee kar chuka hay on indictment in absentia, it is a tried and tested pattern of their systematic abuse of the legal system but what you and I think about it is besides the point. It is the perception they create and then use it to make an excuse to use at an opportune time to make a comeback and so they shall try as they have done so earlier.

Why are you guys not willing to connect the dots from their POV? They have made a comeback in other cases like Aeroplane hijack case reviewed as a special case without any legal precedent. In Hudaibya case too they twisted the system to make that case irrelevant for considerable time to avoid their political death yet again. All they ever need are agreeable judges and they make things possible like in that case where the audio recording of judge Malik AbdulQauum being asked to give maximum punishment to Zardari...the actual Co-perpetrators were the Gunja brothers but remained untouched.

They have a history of making a mockery of our Judicial system and are at it again...This is nothing new.

Why Nawaz preferred being Indicted in absentia? Answer this and the dots not just connect but start dancing too.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

I am not saying that it was illegal but the law is such that it can be used and abused, like they can try to take advantage of the SCP verdict against indictment in absentia and you must consider their strategy to find any and every minute possibility, one such possibility is also of agreeable judges like Ch.Iftikhar who favoured them in cases when he was CJP.

Boss! ... I agreed with you in my post.