Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[PakSword]

Acha.. I have a question.. If a bill is passed by National Assembly, but is rejected in Senate...can tht bill still be passed as law..through a joint sitting of the parliament? I have heard it on media..tht bill can be passed through a joint sitting of the parliament..even if its rejected by senate.... Can it really happen? @PakSword @The Accountant @Shane @Realistic Change

The bill has already been passed by Senate.. Since PMLN is in a hurry, so this bill will now go to the President for signing and tomorrow in shaa Allah will be signed by him.. After that... SHHHEEERRRRR

So Senate has no right to reject a bill at all...? If it rejects ..then it can again be passed by national assembly? So what is senate there for? Is it irrelevant? Phir..why ruling parties want majority in senate too? If every bill can be passed just through national assembly? Like PML N doesnt want to dissolve assembly before next march...because of senate elections

I was not asking particularly for this election bill...but i was asking for planned futre ammendments..

I think getting approval from Senate is mandatory. But if a joint session is called, and Chairman Senate doesn't endorse the joint sitting, the bill can't be passed by only National Assembly..

This is my understanding..

If rejected then it comes back to the lower house and if the lower house accepts agian then it becomes a law.

I don't think if senate rejects a bill, it can be passed by national assembly.. Senate is there for a reason.. Otherwise, there is no need for it..

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Legislation

• Unless both the Houses pass a bill and it receives President’s assent it cannot become a law except in the case of money bill which is prerogative of National Assembly but Senate can make recommendations within 14 days.
• If a Bill transmitted to the other House is not passed within 90 days or a bill sent to the other House with amendments is not passed by that House with such amendments, the Bill, at the request of House in which it originated, shall be considered in joint sitting where it can be passed by simple majority.
• President’s assent in 10 days. If the President refers back a bill to Parliament it is considered in a joint session and if passed by majority is deemed to have been passed by both Houses. Sent again to President to shall give assent in 10 days failing which assent shall be deemed to have been given.

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So the legislation doesn't state that if a bill is rejected by one house, it can still be passed in a joint session. However, if a bill if not passed (the other house sleeps over it), then the originating house can request a joint session in which a simple majority is required.

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@Farah Sohail

Constitutional amendments are not that simple.. there is no joint session concept for constitutional amendments..

Each house must pass the amendment with two third majority...

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Constitution Amendment Bill

• Constitutional Amendment Bill can originate in either House.
• Each House has to pass the Bill with two thirds majority of the total membership of that House.
• If 2nd House passes the Bill with amendments it is referred back to the House in which it originated and if that House agrees to those amendments with two thirds majority it is sent to the President for assent. If the 2nd House does not agree to the Bill or the amendments the matter ends there and then.
• Constitutional amendment Bill which seeks altering the limits of a Province shall also be passed by the Provincial Assembly of that Province by the votes of not less than two thirds of its total membership.

 

[Shane]

@El Sidd @Farah Sohail @PakSword @QatariPrince @Verve @Arsalan @Realistic Change @El_Swordsmen @Guvera @The Accountant
Let me point out an obvious and actual state within state. The disgusting Kingpin and his parallel government.

An anecdote from yesterday's accountability court proceedings is a remark pointed at the defence by the Judge himself justice Bashir.

Justice Bashir told Nawaz Sharif and his councils that in the morning as he got out to depart for the court, his police security was missing and He was told that the police has been assigned to provide protocol to the (disqualified) defendant Nawaz Sharif himself.

A perfect example of a Banana Minister of Interior and his kingpins state within state.

 

[PakSword]

Justice Bashir told Nawaz Sharif and his councils that in the morning as he got out to depart for the court, his police security was missing and He was told that the police has been assigned to provide protocol to the (disqualified) defendant Nawaz Sharif himself.

A perfect example of a Banana Minister of Interior and his kingpins state within state.

Yeh tou lolwa hogaya reyyyy

 

[Farah Sohail]

• If a Bill transmitted to the other House is not passed within 90 days or a bill sent to the other House with amendments is not passed by that House with such amendments, the Bill, at the request of House in which it originated, shall be considered in joint sitting where it can be passed by simple majority.
• President’s assent in 10 days. If the President refers back a bill to Parliament it is considered in a joint session and if passed by majority is deemed to have been passed by both Houses. Sent again to President to shall give assent in 10 days failing which assent shall be deemed to have been given.

@ red it means tht if a bill is even rejected by senate...it can be still passed as law..in a joint sitting of parliament by simple majority ... It makes senate irrelevant in that case.. I know election bill is passed by senate but i was talking in context of future ammendments/bills

@El Sidd @Farah Sohail @PakSword @QatariPrince @Verve @Arsalan @Realistic Change @El_Swordsmen @Guvera @The Accountant
Let me point out an obvious and actual state within state. The disgusting Kingpin and his parallel government.

An anecdote from yesterday's accountability court proceedings is a remark pointed at the defence by the Judge himself justice Bashir.

Justice Bashir told Nawaz Sharif and his councils that in the morning as he got out to depart for the court, his police security was missing and He was told that the police has been assigned to provide protocol to the (disqualified) defendant Nawaz Sharif himself.

A perfect example of a Banana Minister of Interior and his kingpins state within state.

Aur hamdardi karay sharifs se.....aur baji se....aagay aagay pata chalay ga ke kia hota hai

 

[PakSword]

@ red it means tht if a bill is even rejected by senate...it can be still passed as law..in a joint sitting of parliament by simple majority ... It makes senate irrelevant in that case.. I know election bill is passed by senate but i was talking in context of future ammendments/bills

The "red" doesn't state that senate has rejected a bill.. What I understood is that it is not passed within 90 days (senate sleeps over it), or if one house passes the bill, the other house passes with some amendments, and the amended bill is not passed by the first house, then a joint session shall be called.

But if one house doesn't sleep over it, and rejects it, then it can't become a law.

I know you are concerned about constitutional amendments. Getting constitutional amendment passed by both houses is a totally different ball game. Two third majority is required, with no concept of joint session.

 

[Shane]

The bill has already been passed by Senate.. Since PMLN is in a hurry, so this bill will now go to the President for signing and tomorrow in shaa Allah will be signed by him.. After that... SHHHEEERRRRR

The president has already signed the bill late in the night. That's the sort of urgency to enable criminals to become political party head. Two people who are the immediate beneficiary of this hurriedly passed law are:

1) Nawaz Sharif
2) Altaf Hussain

A perfect fit for two of a kind against the state of Pakistan.

No wonder Altaf the pig is all praises for Nawaz and "Meri Behen Maryam":
(Warning, foul language against the state)

 

[Farah Sohail]

The "red" doesn't state that senate has rejected a bill.. What I understood is that it is not passed within 90 days (senate sleeps over it), or if one house passes the bill, the other house passes with some amendments, and the amended bill is not passed by the first house, then a joint session shall be called.

But if one house doesn't sleep over it, and rejects it, then it can't become a law.

I know you are concerned about constitutional amendments. Getting constitutional amendment passed by both houses is a totally different ball game. Two third majority is required, with no concept of joint session.

Look..it states..

• If a Bill transmitted to the other House is not passed within 90 days or a bill sent to the other House with amendments is not passed by that House with such amendments, the Bill, at the request of House in which it originated, shall be considered in joint sitting where it can be passed by simple majority.

First condition is..if its not passed by other house in 90 days (fine..) OR bill sent to the other house with ammenmdments is not passed by tht house with such ammendments (which means rejected here...theres no 90 days condition here) then it can still be considered in joint sitting..and passed by simple majority

Yes... This is not constituitional ammendment but simple law tu ban sakta hai.. Then again a lengthy procedure through SC..ke woh strike down karay

 

[Neutron]

The corrupt birgade is united to protect god father. But I am sure defeat is their destiny

 

[PakSword]

OR bill sent to the other house with ammenmdments is not passed by tht house with such ammendments (which means rejected here...theres no 90 days condition here) then it can still be considered in joint sitting..and passed by simple majority

I think here it means further amendments..

So if a bill is passed by the national assembly..

Senate passes the bill but makes some amendments...

It will go back to the first house (national assembly).. This has happened with election bill as well. .

It was first passed by NA, then Senate passed it with amendments.. it again went to NA (because of amendments)..

If there is a deadlock because of above situation (certain amendments), a joint session can be called.

May be I am wrong..

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Sorry @Farah Sohail I think you are right. I have got more accurate wording from the legislation. So yes, senate is irrelevant in case of simple bills..


1[70. Introduction and passing of Bills.— (1) A Bill with respect to any matter in the Federal Legislative List may originate in either House and shall, if it is passed by the House in which it originated, be transmitted to the other House; and, if the Bill is passed without amendment by the other House also, it shall be presented to the President for assent.


(2) If a Bill transmitted to a House under clause (1) is passed with amendments it shall be sent back to the House in which it originated and if that House passes the Bill with those amendments it shall be presented to the President for assent.


(3) If a Bill transmitted to a House under clause (1) is rejected or is not passed within ninety days of its laying in the House or a Bill sent to a House under clause (2) with amendments is not passed by that House with such amendments, the Bill, at the request of the House in which it originated, shall be considered in a joint sitting and if passed by the votes of the majority of the members present and voting in the joint sitting it shall be presented to the President for assent.


(4) In this Article and the succeeding provisions of the Constitution, “Federal Legislative List” means the Federal Legislative List in the Fourth Schedule.]

 

[Dil Pakistan]

The president has already signed the bill late in the night. That's the sort of urgency to enable criminals to become political party head. Two people who are the immediate beneficiary of this hurriedly passed law are:

1) Nawaz Sharif
2) Altaf Hussain

A perfect fit for two of a kind against the state of Pakistan.

No wonder Altaf the pig is all praises for Nawaz and "Meri Behen Maryam":
(Warning, foul language against the state)

This is the reply to this TOAD -
Anees Qaim Khani audio reply.

 

[Realistic Change]

@El Sidd @Farah Sohail @PakSword @QatariPrince @Verve @Arsalan @Realistic Change @El_Swordsmen @Guvera @The Accountant
Let me point out an obvious and actual state within state. The disgusting Kingpin and his parallel government.

An anecdote from yesterday's accountability court proceedings is a remark pointed at the defence by the Judge himself justice Bashir.

Justice Bashir told Nawaz Sharif and his councils that in the morning as he got out to depart for the court, his police security was missing and He was told that the police has been assigned to provide protocol to the (disqualified) defendant Nawaz Sharif himself.

A perfect example of a Banana Minister of Interior and his kingpins state within state.

What’s next by all Supreme National Assembly.......Dissolving Supreme Court of Pakistan and Pakistan Army?

I won’t be surprised, if some Noon Toon dimwit moves the bill and AAZ endorse the same to save the most precious Zar & $har Marka Jamhooriyat!

 

[Guvera]

Why has establishment been shying their eyes from Nawaz's open challenge to destabilize the very foundation of unity, faith and discipline of Pakistan?

The million dollar question is "for how long" ?

 

[Shane]

The million dollar question is "for how long" ?

And what shall be the magnitude of rebellion or incitement against the state that may be deemed as the breach of red line that must not be allowed? Amendment to render Supreme Court toothless to even hear a constitutional petition or something more personal like against appointment of Army officers?

PMLN has virtually established a state within the state as a parallel monarchy of Nawaz runs wild: No accountability for his actions as the de-facto monarch virtually running the state of affairs of the government and making critical and vengeful policy decisions behind the scenes, even at the international level.

READ THE FINER PRINT PEOPLE!

PMLN LEADERS HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING MEETINGS WITH DISQUALIFIED PM AND AFTERWARDS WITH WESTERN LEADERSHIP. THEY HAVE BEEN GIVING STATEMENTS THAT STAND AT THE VERY MARGINS OF GOING AGAINST THE STATE INTERESTS... IN PREPARATION OF WHAT? TO WHAT END? THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS BUT FOR THE NAIVE.

Different scales for different parties and different leaders. That's why I keep saying that this inherent prejudice to continue to up ease and softly handle the kingpin and his whole party of colluding stooges must end or be prepared to accept the share in responsibility of the harm to the country.

Such is the state of chaos being drummed up by Nawaz & co to save the billions of dollars worth of interest of Sharifs that the cost amounts to putting the existence of our very homeland at stake. Enough with the hollow vocals and time to act instead of wasting mere words.

No martial law but put an end to the policy of neutrality and Most of PMLN shall run away spitting at Nawaz's face.

PMLN (as we see it now) MUST BE SPLINTERED INTO OBLIVION NOW OR THE CONSEQUENCES ARE BLEAK, TO SAY THE LEAST.

This must be done for the sake of a better future of Pakistan or let it slide as it is, into the hell of corruption.

 

[Guvera]

And what shall be the magnitude of rebellion or incitement against the state that may be deemed as the breach of red line that must not be allowed? Amendment to render Supreme Court toothless to even hear a constitutional petition or something more personal like against appointment of Army officers?

PMLN has virtually established a state within the state as a parallel monarchy of Nawaz runs wild: No accountability for his actions as the de-facto monarch virtually running the state of affairs of the government and making critical and vengeful policy decisions behind the scenes, even at the international level.

READ THE FINER PRINT PEOPLE!

PMLN LEADERS HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING MEETINGS WITH DISQUALIFIED PM AND AFTERWARDS WITH WESTERN LEADERSHIP. THEY HAVE BEEN GIVING STATEMENTS THAT STAND AT THE VERY MARGINS OF GOING AGAINST THE STATE INTERESTS... IN PREPARATION OF WHAT? TO WHAT END? THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS BUT FOR THE NAIVE.

Different scales for different parties and different leaders. That's why I keep saying that this inherent prejudice to continue to up ease and softly handle the kingpin and his whole party of colluding stooges must end or be prepared to accept the share in responsibility of the harm to the country.

Such is the state of chaos being drummed up by Nawaz & co to save the billions of dollars worth of interest of Sharifs that the cost amounts to putting the existence of our very homeland at stake. Enough with the hollow vocals and time to act instead of wasting mere words.

No martial law but put an end to the policy of neutrality and Most of PMLN shall run away spitting at Nawaz's face.

PMLN (as we see it now) MUST BE SPLINTERED INTO OBLIVION NOW OR THE CONSEQUENCES ARE BLEAK, TO SAY THE LEAST.

This must be done for the sake of a better future of Pakistan or let it slide as it is, into the hell of corruption.

As far as i can see the red line has been crossed, someone (either PA or Judiciary) has to step in and stop this madness cuz as we see it right now the country shud better be called as Kingdom rather than Islamic Republic, for me the red line has been crossed and guess what, this Noora madness wont stop here..next in line is 62/63 and so on.

 

[Shane]

As far as i can see the red line has been crossed,

That's exactly what I mean too but it looks like different red line for anokhay ladlay