Palestine before 1948

[The SC]

The video contains pictures of different Palestinian cities during the 1920's and 1930's, before the creation of the state of israel by the zionists in 1948.

The meaning of the word israel:

Israel was never a name of a land, at least in the Koran, it talked about a tribe of people that could be any faith. Secondly, the Koran was the first book to give Jacob the nickname Israel with its common etymology and means the "Captive of God".. in the Hebrew Torah and the arabic andalucian original one he is still being called "Yitzrael" or Yisrael with "Tzada" witch means, the one who defeated God according to the myth in the Torah

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Funny how even in this video many of the pictures are of Jewish cities and neighborhoods and of Jews.

The name Israel comes from the Torah, over a thousands years before Koran and Islam. I don't see how Koran re-defining the name Israel to suit them is relevant.

Israel was renamed Palestine by the Romans after the Jews rebelled against them at about 100 AD. some 500 years before the birth of Islam and Arab invasions of Judea.
The name Palestine itself is derived from the Philistines, who were most likely of Greek origin, definitely not Semitic. The name Palestine was chosen to antagonize the Jews since they had a history of fighting the Greek Philistines a few centuries earlier.
As you can see even Palestine and Palestinians are names which historically belonged to Jews. The Arab who migrated into Israel in the last couple of centuries have chosen this name for themselves in the last half of a century in a kind of attempt to invent historical claim that never existed.

Philistines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jewish-Roman wars

This is all quite rudimentary, really.

Here is a bit more throughout video showing the cities over the first half of the 20th century, with as many population citations as could be found:

Free Palestine, and we will conquer the world - YouTube

 

[The SC]

Islam came thousands of years before Torah in the hands of Abraham.
Banou Israel "Yaacoob" or Jacob were a tribe in Arabia, they were chosen by God for an example of non-believers or more precisely for an example of people who changes their allegiances according to their feelings and circumstances, meaning they are subjective and unstable people, the word of God holds true till nowadays.
They even believe that God and the devil are equal in their charlatan's believes of 666=666
And they also think that they are descendants of the one who overwhelmed and won against God, showing their primitive thoughts and ignorance of the laws of nature, let alone their creator.
In brief this was a troublesome tribe since time memorial, today they even claim the US treasury department as their own and beyond all American laws, they always try to find naive people everywhere and convince them of their supremacy, by creating conflicts in their minds and make them doubt themselves, so they will hand whatever they have to the supposedly masters...
indeed the masters of deceit and psycho-warfare.
Are you going to claim the music of the video for yourselves too.
If you read ancient history you'll find that Hebrew people came to Arabia from somewhere else and claimed themselves to be Arab cousins while in reality they have never been blood related, so your claim of the philistinians to be from Greek origin is false; they are native to the land of Palestine and the Hebrews were bad guests.

In answer to your false tortured mind video that contradicts what you are saying coldly as rudimentary, anyone can take pieces of videos and pictures and edit them to his likings, it will be easy to do to to anyone from anyone, so your video is a non valid source of information , it is an attempt to distort reality to sooth your bad feelings.

 

[Silverblaze]

Funny how even in this video many of the pictures are of Jewish cities and neighborhoods and of Jews.

The name Israel comes from the Torah, over a thousands years before Koran and Islam. I don't see how Koran re-defining the name Israel to suit them is relevant.

Israel was renamed Palestine by the Romans after the Jews rebelled against them at about 100 AD. some 500 years before the birth of Islam and Arab invasions of Judea.
The name Palestine itself is derived from the Philistines, who were most likely of Greek origin, definitely not Semitic. The name Palestine was chosen to antagonize the Jews since they had a history of fighting the Greek Philistines a few centuries earlier.
As you can see even Palestine and Palestinians are names which historically belonged to Jews. The Arab who migrated into Israel in the last couple of centuries have chosen this name for themselves in the last half of a century in a kind of attempt to invent historical claim that never existed.

Philistines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jewish-Roman wars

This is all quite rudimentary, really.

Here is a bit more throughout video showing the cities over the first half of the 20th century, with as many population citations as could be found:

Free Palestine, and we will conquer the world - YouTube

Well again. after the arab invasions of what is now Israel and to some extent Palestinian territories, many of the local populations became muslims and hence today many palestinians are actually the descendents of those natives.


Many Jews in Israel have actually come from outside the region altogether. So, they cannot be placed in the categories of natives which is the problem.

There was also a good study done by an Israeli writer, cannot remember his name, but would publish the study when I find it.

thanks.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Islam came thousands of years before Torah in the hands of Abraham.

I see, well thanks for clearing this up. Now i am sure that there is no point to debating with you since history is meaningless for you.

If you read ancient history you'll find that Hebrew people came to Arabia from somewhere else and claimed themselves to be Arab cousins while in reality they have never been blood related

Actually according to Torah the Jews were never to Arabia. Abraham came from Mesopotamia (Iraq-Syria south east Turkey region), and many of the people who joined through marriage etc were from Canaan (ancient name for the region of Israel). Nothing to do with Arabs.
Since I am not religions I don't consider this evidence either way. Historically speaking it seems like the Jews have developed from some of the native tribes of Canaan, though there is no conclusive evidence.

so your claim of the philistines to be from Greek origin is false; they are native to the land of Palestine and the Hebrews were bad guests.

The pottery they had was distinctly Mycenaean, their language not Semitic and names foreign.
There are also Egyptian writing associating them with people who originated from Asia minor.
I know you would just brush off evidence but I am writing this for the sake of everyone else.

Edit: oh and Philistines were wiped out all together centuries before Arabs came to this land. It's kind of difficult to be the decedents of extinct people.

 

[Pakistanisage]

ISRAEL was the name God gave to JACOB ( Son of Isaac and Grandson of Abraham). Quran mentions " Bani Israel " meaning the 12 sons of Israel ( Jacob ) which formed the 12 tribes of Bani Israel.


In Arabic, Prophet Jacob is called Yaqub (AS). All Jewish Prophets are considered Islamic Prophets as well.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Well again. after the arab invasions of what is now Israel and to some extent Palestinian territories, many of the local populations became muslims and hence today many palestinians are actually the descendents of those natives.


Many Jews in Israel have actually come from outside the region altogether. So, they cannot be placed in the categories of natives which is the problem.

There was also a good study done by an Israeli writer, cannot remember his name, but would publish the study when I find it.

thanks.

You are right about the fact that some of the Jews who remained here became Muslim. The thing is that prior to the last couple of centuries this land was pretty barren and only had a small population. The majority of the Arabs now living in this land are descendants of immigrants from foreign Arab lands, just like the Jews are immigrants, of other land though. The immigrant Jews have historical and genetic ties to the land, but whether it's worth much when the ties are of over a thousand years old is a matter of opinion.

At the moment only a small fraction of both Jews and Muslims that live here can draw their heritage to living in this land before the immigration waves in the past few centuries.

 

[Silverblaze]

You are right about the fact that some of the Jews who remained here became Muslim. The thing is that prior to the last couple of centuries this land was pretty barren and only had a small population. The majority of the Arabs now living in this land are descendants of immigrants from foreign Arab lands, just like the Jews are immigrants, of other land though. The immigrant Jews have historical and genetic ties to the land, but whether it's worth much when the ties are of over a thousand years old is a matter of opinion.

Well you see this is problem. The Jewish diaspora has this opinion in the bold, but the palestinians were already living there.
So, people who are natives here have more right to the land - this is a palestinian position.

At the moment only a small fraction of both Jews and Muslims that live here can draw their heritage to living in this land before the immigration waves in the past few centuries.

Very good point indeed, but the thing is that by this standard arguments from both sides nullify each other.

The jews from israel draw association with the land from a religious side to avoid being labelled as immigrants. Similarly, as a reaction the Palestinians - including the non natives , also use a similar assertion based on the religion of Islam. So you see things are not simple. .........................

 

[BDforever]

You are right about the fact that some of the Jews who remained here became Muslim. The thing is that prior to the last couple of centuries this land was pretty barren and only had a small population. The majority of the Arabs now living in this land are descendants of immigrants from foreign Arab lands, just like the Jews are immigrants, of other land though. The immigrant Jews have historical and genetic ties to the land, but whether it's worth much when the ties are of over a thousand years old is a matter of opinion.

At the moment only a small fraction of both Jews and Muslims that live here can draw their heritage to living in this land before the immigration waves in the past few centuries.

I just want to ask you one question. According to your religion, descendant of 2nd king David of Israel will bring all children of Israel to their holy land. Now tell me who is that religious guy and descendant of your 2nd king has brought you in your holy land ?

 

[WhiteMansBurden]

 

[asad71]

1.There are various denominations in Judaism. A rough grouping can be as under:

a. Orthodox Judaism. Orthodox Jews believe that God gave Moses the whole Torah (Written and Oral) at Mount Sinai. Orthodox Jews believe that the Torah contains 613 mitzvot (commandments) that are binding upon Jews. Modern Orthodox Jews strictly observe halakhah (Jewish Law), but still integrate into modern society. Ultra-Orthodox Jews, which includes Chasidic Jews, strictly observe Jewish laws and do not integrate into modern society by dressing distinctively and living separately.
b. Conservative Judaism. Conservative Judaism maintains that the ideas in the Torah come from God, but were transmitted by humans and contain a human compontent. Conservative Judaism generally accepts the binding nature of halakhah (Jewish Law), but believes that the Law should adapt, absorbing aspects of the predominant culture while remaining true to Judaism's values.
c. Reform Judaism. Reform Judaism believes that the Torah was written by different human sources, rather than by God, and then later combined. While Reform Judaism does not accept the binding nature of halakhah (Jewish Law), the movement does retain much of the values and ethics of Judaism as well as some of the practices and culture.
d. Reconstructionist Judaism. Reconstructionists believe that Judaism is an "evolving religious civilization." In one way it is more liberal than Reform Judaism - the movement does not believe in a personified deity that is active in history and does not believe that God chose the Jewish people. In another way Reconstructionist Judaism is less liberal than Reform Judaism - Reconstructionists may observe Jewish Law, not because it is a binding Law from God, but because it is a valuable cultural remnant.
e. Humanistic Judaism. Humanistic Judaism, founded in 1963 in Detroit, Michigan by Rabbi Sherwin T. Wine, offers a nontheistic alternative in contemporary Jewish life. Humanistic Jews believe in creating a meaningful Jewish lifestyle free from supernatural authority, in achieving dignity and self-esteem, and in reviving the secular roots of Judaism. Humanistic Judaism embraces a human-centered philosophy that combines the celebration of Jewish culture and identity with adherence to humanistic values.

2.Then there are twelve tribes of Jews as follows: Reuben, Simeon, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim and Manasseh.

3. The pressure they have been under throughout history have kept them united. Otherwise there are a lot of seeds of dissension in Judaism.Indeed some kinds believe they are destined to own no land / country, and as such are not happy with the creation of Israel.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Well you see this is problem. The Jewish diaspora has this opinion in the bold, but the palestinians were already living there.
So, people who are natives here have more right to the land - this is a palestinian position.

The problem is that you selectively choose to take only the parts that suit you. The vast majority of the nowadays Arab Palestinians are decedents of immigrants of the couple of last centuries. I have said this in the previous post too. Since both most of the Palestinians and Jews immigrated into Israel in the last couple of centuries, but the Jews have ancient historical ties to the land it is the Jews who have the stronger claim on nativity. Before the large Jewish and Arab immigration waves into Israel the numbers of Jews and Arabs living here was pretty similar, though Arabs had a small edge. Jews lived in the holly land continuously for thousands of years in cities like Beit Lehem, Jerusalem Hebron and Gaza (which was a Jewish schoolary center in the middle ages for a while).

Very good point indeed, but the thing is that by this standard arguments from both sides nullify each other.

The jews from israel draw association with the land from a religious side to avoid being labelled as immigrants. Similarly, as a reaction the Palestinians - including the non natives , also use a similar assertion based on the religion of Islam. So you see things are not simple. .........................

I never said that things are simple, I knew exactly what I was saying. I know that I cannot be completely neutral because of my nationality, but I can try to be as historically accurate as possible. If you check my posts then even though I often argue against various pro Palestinian claims (which are often absurd), I believe in Palestinian's right for a homeland. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have more Palestinian Arabs friends than many here(though with Israeli passport). And have had many conversations with the average Palestinians, those who do not travel abroad to study and vacations (at least not farther than Jordan).

 

[WhiteMansBurden]

The problem is that you selectively choose to take only the parts that suit you. The vast majority of the nowadays Arab Palestinians are decedents of immigrants of the couple of last centuries. I have said this in the previous post too. Since both most of the Palestinians and Jews immigrated into Israel in the last couple of centuries, but the Jews have ancient historical ties to the land it is the Jews who have the stronger claim on nativity. Before the large Jewish and Arab immigration waves into Israel the numbers of Jews and Arabs living here was pretty similar, though Arabs had a small edge. Jews lived in the holly land continuously for thousands of years in cities like Beit Lehem, Jerusalem Hebron and Gaza (which was a Jewish schoolary center in the middle ages for a while).



I never said that things are simple, I knew exactly what I was saying. I know that I cannot be completely neutral because of my nationality, but I can try to be as historically accurate as possible. If you check my posts then even though I often argue against various pro Palestinian claims (which are often absurd), I believe in Palestinian's right for a homeland. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have more Palestinian Arabs friends than many here(though with Israeli passport). And have had many conversations with the average Palestinians, those who do not travel abroad to study and vacations (at least not farther than Jordan).

Azhekanizm Jews have no claim on anything in the Middle East, or anywhere for that matter.

Seriously, how stupid do you think people have to be to not understand that Blue-eyed, blond-haired people were never native to the Middle East?

If you were from Palestine, you would at least LOOK like the Mizrahim Jews or Arab Palestinians. Hey buddy, why do you look so physically different?

Why do you not share your phenotype with ANY of the native peoples of the Levant?

The only Jews that belong in the Levant are native Arab Jews, or 'Mizrahim' as the inferiority-complex driven Jews have now renamed them.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Actually, my misinformed friend, every study has shown that Ashkenazim Jews came from the Middle East originally. Appearance can change after a few centuries when people mingle some, but most of the other genes tell a different story.

I am going to quote myself:

Ashkenazim might have some minor Khazar contribution, but it is obvious they are mostly originated from the ME, this is shown time and again by every single study.

A study of haplotypes of the Y-chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al.[62] found that the Y-chromosome of Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with "relatively minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim," and a total admixture estimate "very similar to Motulsky's average estimate of 12.5%." This supported the finding that "Diaspora Jews from Europe, Northwest Africa, and the Near East resemble each other more closely than they resemble their non-Jewish neighbors."

A 2001 study by Nebel et al. showed that both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish populations share the same overall paternal Near Eastern ancestries. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent.

A 2007 study by Bauchet et al. found that Ashkenazi Jews were most closely clustered with Arabic North African populations when compared to Global population, and in the European structure analysis, they share similarities only with Greeks and Southern Italians, reflecting their east Mediterranean origins.

A 2010 study on Jewish ancestry by Atzmon-Ostrer et al. stated "Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry."

The genome wide genetic study carried out in 2010 by Behar et al. examined the genetic relationships among all major Jewish groups, including Ashkenazim, as well as the genetic relationship between these Jewish groups and non Jewish ethnic populations. The study found that contemporary Jews (excluding Indian and Ethiopian Jews) have a close genetic relationship
with people from the Levant.

and I can go on...
I know it would be comfortable for you to believe otherwise, but alas...

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...le-israel-s-russian-jews-3.html#ixzz2ZhZ4aXjA

 

[Silverblaze]

The problem is that you selectively choose to take only the parts that suit you. The vast majority of the nowadays Arab Palestinians are decedents of immigrants of the couple of last centuries. I have said this in the previous post too. Since both most of the Palestinians and Jews immigrated into Israel in the last couple of centuries, but the Jews have ancient historical ties to the land it is the Jews who have the stronger claim on nativity. Before the large Jewish and Arab immigration waves into Israel the numbers of Jews and Arabs living here was pretty similar, though Arabs had a small edge. Jews lived in the holly land continuously for thousands of years in cities like Beit Lehem, Jerusalem Hebron and Gaza (which was a Jewish schoolary center in the middle ages for a while).



I never said that things are simple, I knew exactly what I was saying. I know that I cannot be completely neutral because of my nationality, but I can try to be as historically accurate as possible. If you check my posts then even though I often argue against various pro Palestinian claims (which are often absurd), I believe in Palestinian's right for a homeland. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I have more Palestinian Arabs friends than many here(though with Israeli passport). And have had many conversations with the average Palestinians, those who do not travel abroad to study and vacations (at least not farther than Jordan).

Again its a matter of opinion. historical records do suggest that Palestinians were forcibly removed from their lands. So, it is not that simple.
Its very hard to justify a claim on the basis of religion. A follower of judaisim in south east asia has a claim in the middle east.

This creates problems. This is the reason why religion is also used from other sides.

For instance, Pakistan was founded on religious basis, does that mean the non-muslims living before the creation of what is now Pakistan, have lesser rights?

Pakistani muslims would be wrong to claim the lands on the basis of religion.

One cannot find nativity on the basis of religion. If I accept Judaisim, would I automatically become eligible to claim the lands of the middle east?

I cannot agree with this.

No body is asking you to be neutral. Just expressing an argument.

We agree to disagree.