Pakistan's western front

[IceCold]

Where will you get the USD 2 billion to do it ? Its not that simple to do ie seal of the border. You will also alienate the whole tribal belt on the Pakistani side.

Regards

AN its not about 2 billion besides i kinda doubt that the cost is that high. Anyways keeping the 2 billion into account, it is necessary for the survival of pakistan. The time has indeed come to highlight the difference between an afghan and a pakistani. Besides as for alienating is concerned, yes there would be some trouble, but if we put the amount of money into the region that is required, build infrastructure, schools, basic needs of life like water food, it will change the whole situation of the region and this BS of pashtunism. Afghans want to carry this on for their self interest, pakistanies linked because they have nothing else to do, an empty mind is a devil's mind. However this will take time to impliment, but nothing can be achieved in one day. But fenceing the border is the right thing to do and is a right step forward. The next logical step after fencing and imo we should mine the border as well, will be to take out all afghanies from within pakistan and send them back. We will have to stop this afghani humera bhai( meaning afghans are our brothers) thing and smell the real coffee.

 

[fatman17]

AN its not about 2 billion besides i kinda doubt that the cost is that high. Anyways keeping the 2 billion into account, it is necessary for the survival of pakistan. The time has indeed come to highlight the difference between an afghan and a pakistani. Besides as for alienating is concerned, yes there would be some trouble, but if we put the amount of money into the region that is required, build infrastructure, schools, basic needs of life like water food, it will change the whole situation of the region and this BS of pashtunism. Afghans want to carry this on for their self interest, pakistanies linked because they have nothing else to do, an empty mind is a devil's mind. However this will take time to impliment, but nothing can be achieved in one day. But fenceing the border is the right thing to do and is a right step forward. The next logical step after fencing and imo we should mine the border as well, will be to take out all afghanies from within pakistan and send them back. We will have to stop this afghani humera bhai( meaning afghans are our brothers) thing and smell the real coffee.

i believe we have the 3rd largest stockpile of land mines. mine the border. make sure we put enough warning posts along the border. its the best deterrence. cost US$ 500 mill maybe. lets just do it. the pushtuns on both sides should move at dedicated entry/exit points just like the rest of the world.

 

[IceCold]

i believe we have the 3rd largest stockpile of land mines. mine the border. make sure we put enough warning posts along the border. its the best deterrence. cost US$ 500 mill maybe. lets just do it. the pushtuns on both sides should move at dedicated entry/exit points just like the rest of the world.

Exactly sir! we need to make sure that there are proper enter and exist points on the border not that the whole border is open to infiltrate whenever people from both side want and see fit. This has to stop.

 

[muse]

Mastan


You have a point that the federation is not set in stone --- actually it is set in the blood and sacrifice of Pakistanis - -- and it may well be that the Balouchi sardar cannot be coerced in to citizenship, but I would suggest that we can take some lesson from the American civil war and the Will and Sacrifice to maitain the federation.

The choices are not Law OR order, the choice is always right or wrong, good or bad!

I will concede that the Pakistani government is not and has not been the most progressive and compassion, like dignity is in short supply not just in Pakistan but in South-Central Asia, but I will not be counted among those who would question the existence of federation.

 

[mujahideen]

^^^^Anyone who tries or even attempts to destory the Federation must be dealt with an iron hand. That is the end of the question. All provinces will be given the same power, no autonomy for anyone.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

To Everyone:

I need to clarify something - when I typically mention "autonomy" (and mistakenly I now recognize) it is not meant to imply any extra-constitutional status for any province.

Rather my point is that the more items on the concurrent list need to be delegated to the provinces. I do not support FATA like autonomy, nor do I support what Raisani is arguing for.

 

[MastanKhan]

Muse,

Your quote "You have a point that the federation is not set in stone --- actually it is set in the blood and sacrifice of Pakistanis - -- and it may well be that the Balouchi sardar cannot be coerced in to citizenship, but I would suggest that we can take some lesson".

First of all you missed my point about cast in stone---second, you are getting into the emotional side of the issue---thirdly your comment


"The choices are not Law OR order, the choice is always right or wrong, good or bad"...

When the time comes and a man learns, that there are shades of gray between right and wrong and good or bad, then he starts to understand that Law is always supreme, but there are instances where ORDER needs to be maintained and restored at all costs.

Pakistani citizens want order to be restored in the society.

 

[Kasrkin]

We have to do something about this border. Its too dangerous and the Afghans cant be trusted. We are fighting an entire war thanks to their whole mess and they dont even recognize our territorial integrity! We already have India to worry about, I say we seal the damn thing and send all these free loaders home. Afghans'll come to us later on when they need our help(as usual)...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

We have to do something about this border. Its too dangerous and the Afghans cant be trusted. We are fighting an entire war thanks to their whole mess and they dont even recognize our territorial integrity! We already have India to worry about, I say we seal the damn thing and send all these free loaders home. Afghans'll come to us later on when they need our help(as usual)...

There you make the first cardinal error.

This confusion was not an Afghan initiated one.

It was Pakistan initiated one.

Get that straight.

Was it right?

Indeed, it was.

It was a brilliant political and strategic coup! Make no mistake about that!

What went wrong was that it was forgotten after the immediate aim was achieved and it was allowed to spiral into the total confusion that it is now.

Who is to blame?

Not Pakistan alone.

All the players!!

Send the freeloaders back?

They will return with vengeance!!

A conundrum because of short sighted policies!!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The choices are not Law OR order, the choice is always right or wrong, good or bad

It depends on who is perceiving it!!

 

[Kasrkin]

There you make the first cardinal error.

This confusion was not an Afghan initiated one.

It was Pakistan initiated one.

Get that straight.

Maybe according to India propaganda but not otherwise. Dont lecture me about my country please; we did what any country would do as far as helping the Taliban achieve(relative) stability in that war torn land is concerned.
You think the Taliban were bad and are hoping to chastise our country for that? Well what about the 'Northern Alliance' I ask you? Everyone knows they are(and were) every bit as brutal as the Taliban. Only difference is that the Northern Alliance are known drug smugglers and if you think things are bad these days, as far as the drug trade into Pakistan is concerned because the NA is in charge(more or less) then you can imagine how it would have been if they were in charge from the start. The rise of the Taliban was treated with enthusiasm across the world in hopes of lasting peace, a Taliban delegation was even welcomed in the United States. It was the right thing to do at that time.

So I ask you with what moral justification is Pakistan blamed? Did India and certain elements in the US establishment not support the Northern Alliance? Did Iran not support her own groups? Were and are NA human right records so much better?

Taliban would have been a potent force(as they kinda are at the moment) had Pakistan chosen not to help them. Pakistan did not MAKE (contrary to what our Indian friends say ofcourse) the Taliban, we just gave them the technical push they needed to speed things up and frankly make it less bloody(on both sides). Had we not supported them the only difference would have been we would have had absolutely no influence over that region and the efforts we undertook to convince the Taliban to listen to sense would also not have been possible. If you think that Al-Qaeda would not have found shelter in war ravaged Afghanistan anyway then you are lost. They had influence there even before the Taliban.
Many reports have indicated Pakistani elements were responsible for trying to assist the US in killing Osama before 9/11. Things just suddenly came to a head in 9/11, thats all. Pakistan is not an irresponsible nation, it was the Americans who couldn’t manage a proper military invasion, and these honor less and sense less individuals slipped into our territories; which the Americans knew were not guarded for decades! So is it still Pakistans fault? Nope I won’t say so.

So this is their fight, and their mess. We cannot and should not be blamed for trying to help them out as we did against the Soviets when everyone was supporting the Mujahidin(not to mention all the refugees), with the Taliban when almost everyone was supporting the Taliban and now with the Western forces when most Afghans have said they rather NATO stay. Why is Pakistan always blamed? Why are we singled out? These Afghans should not be our problem anymore.

Send the freeloaders back?

They will return with vengeance!!

Yes I am sure many of our Indian friends would love that. Buts its not going to happen since sending them back is nothing short of what they deserve. Like I've said, we have done enough.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Here is my understanding of the start of taliban---Mullah Umar was travelling in a bus from kandahar to kabul---the guy in the white beard Rabbani from northern alliance was in power at that time. There is extreme lawlessness in the land. Rabbani is an extremely brutal leader. Mass killings are a norm.

Some where during the trip a wedding party boarded the bus with the a bride and groom. A little later the bus was pulled over by highway robbers---the new bride was raped---the bus looted and plundered---Mullah Umar vowed to seek revenge and take his country away from lawless people.

Indirectly, taliban and Mullah Umar is the creation of india as well. India didnot have the intellect at that time to control their boys in kabul. As I stated earlier, no one knows what the fortunes and misfortunes of war would bring. Here is afghanistan after the end of war with the russians---instead of the majority pakistan backed pushtuns forming the govt---the minority of Rabbani forms the govt---Rabbani is a very brutal man---Rabbani also favours india over pakistan---after all pakistan has done during the war, they are shocked at the misfortune that the nature be-grudged upon them---all the factions that were seeking support from the pakistanis are now suddenly against them---and further to rub salt into the wounds, the afghans are creating a new alliance with india---there are three losers in this triangle---pakistan---afghanistan---india. So, when the time came and the govt changed in afghanistan and india backer Rabbani was kicked out, pakistan had to support the taliban.

So, the point that people are making that pakistan deserves it is a moot point. The same can be said for india as well---the indian screw ups are royal as well and find a place next to pakistan or slightly above in the HALL OF SHAME. I mean to say---the so claimed biggest democracy in the world and no single neighbour has happy relationship with it. So what do you call a person who is a wonderful guy away from his home---but at home---he is miserable with his family and immediate neighbours---india I suppose. I am not being disrespectful to my indian colleagues---but just trying to share with them that their's don't fly either.