Pakistan’s T129 deliveries ready despite delays

[HAIDER]

so what is TAKLEEF pain of PAA now we need them bring them home man

PAA facility is not ready and plus army aviation engineers training . Pak engineer don t know much about this helo engine maintenance. Plus, if PAA really short of operational attack helo, then they might take delivery from Turkish inventory. Because TTP is heating up the border area again and PA need urgent delivery.

 

[Tank131]

Btw please read more of Alan Warnes tweets below the T-129, regarding the delivery of the AH-1Zs. They have been held and some speculated they qould be given to Bahrain (while he states the Bahrain connection was disputed by the US defense official, and states he thinks they will be settled after US/PAK Row is over)...whenever that will be. So currently no Atak and no Zulu because some idiot didnt understand this isnt the 1980s nor early 2000s. Will Pakistan get its choppers hopefully, but which moron thought a good idea to protect PAA fleet from US sanctions would be to get another chopper that is still requiring US Approval to export?
@Bossman, read @Quwa's post that they are already paying installments, and they will take delivery (either of fresh buolds or from Turkish inventory when approval from US Comes). If you wanted the Atak then dont get the Zulus too. Get more Hinds or WZ-10 to go with it. If you want the Zulus dont get the Atak. I was in favor of going for Ataks but we were led to believe there would be no issues regarding US Components (let alone something as central as the engine). Still think going for them is better than the Zulu (beause alternate components can be sourced with some reworking but an entire system like the zulu couldn't be sourced). But they shouldn't have gone for both. An eastern source would have been preferable to Zulus.

But as they say:
Proper Planning and Practice Prevents Piss PoorPerformance. Prior Proper PlanningPrevents Painfully Poor Production. Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Production.

 

[Safriz]

Fuk the Amjerican Zulus...instead set them on fire soon after arrival
Welcome T-129

 

[Goku-kun]

Hi,

The Turkey attack helicopter deal had TREASON written all over it in large letters---.

WZ-10 was as good a chopper as the 129---. Possibly the Army generals could not get as much kick back from china as they did from Turkey---that is why they picked the 129---.

we should have other doors open aside China and Turkey's defence toys are on par with those of China and some are even better than China's but problem is that they aren't 100% indigenous as now there is this engine problem which is imported from US while China's products from 1-100% indigenous .

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hi,

The Turkey attack helicopter deal had TREASON written all over it in large letters---.

WZ-10 was as good a chopper as the 129---. Possibly the Army generals could not get as much kick back from china as they did from Turkey---that is why they picked the 129---.

With due apology IF YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE ISSUES REGARDING ATAK T-129 THEN DO NOT SAY ANY THING.

Both AH-1Z and T-129 use the same engines and other systems including ammunitions hence it was the logical choice over the WZ-10.

As far as T-129's deliveries are concerned TAI and Turkey have no issues sending them the issue is here in Pakistan. The tender for the establishment of facilities got delayed and that is the only reason PAA has requested both TAI and US to store these till the next batch is due.

 

[MastanKhan]

As far as T-129's deliveries are concerned TAI and Turkey have no issues sending them the issue is here in Pakistan. The tender for the establishment of facilities got delayed and that is the only reason PAA has requested both TAI and US to store these till the next batch is due.

Hi,

So---our military is asking those to store them for awhile---those who could sanction them at any instance---.

What kind of enlightened thinking is that---?

PAA facility is not ready and plus army aviation engineers training . Pak engineer don t know much about this helo engine maintenance. Plus, if PAA really short of operational attack helo, then they might take delivery from Turkish inventory. Because TTP is heating up the border area again and PA need urgent delivery.

Hi,

That explanation of no facility is not acceptable---.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Btw please read more of Alan Warnes tweets below the T-129, regarding the delivery of the AH-1Zs. They have been held and some speculated they qould be given to Bahrain (while he states the Bahrain connection was disputed by the US defense official, and states he thinks they will be settled after US/PAK Row is over)...whenever that will be. So currently no Atak and no Zulu because some idiot didnt understand this isnt the 1980s nor early 2000s. Will Pakistan get its choppers hopefully, but which moron thought a good idea to protect PAA fleet from US sanctions would be to get another chopper that is still requiring US Approval to export?
@Bossman, read @Quwa's post that they are already paying installments, and they will take delivery (either of fresh buolds or from Turkish inventory when approval from US Comes). If you wanted the Atak then dont get the Zulus too. Get more Hinds or WZ-10 to go with it. If you want the Zulus dont get the Atak. I was in favor of going for Ataks but we were led to believe there would be no issues regarding US Components (let alone something as central as the engine). Still think going for them is better than the Zulu (beause alternate components can be sourced with some reworking but an entire system like the zulu couldn't be sourced). But they shouldn't have gone for both. An eastern source would have been preferable to Zulus.

But as they say:
Proper Planning and Practice Prevents Piss PoorPerformance. Prior Proper PlanningPrevents Painfully Poor Production. Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Production.

The AH-1Z is where it's at due to the US cancelling FMF/CSF; Pakistan wanted to use FMF/CSF to fund AH-1Zs.

The T129 is a little strange; TAI built the first batch in months because it re-routed some aircraft meant for the Turkish Armed Forces to Pakistan. This generally doesn't happen, it takes 2+ years to get new aircraft ready for delivery, so it seems TAI just got ahead of the process (i.e. the US wasn't given enough time to process the ITAR approval for the CTS800).

 

[JohnWick]

Hi,

So---our military is asking those to store them for awhile---those who could sanction them at any instance---.

What kind of enlightened thinking is that---?



Hi,

That explanation of no facility is not acceptable---.

Hi,

So---our military is asking those to store them for awhile---those who could sanction them at any instance---.

What kind of enlightened thinking is that---?



Hi,

That explanation of no facility is not acceptable---.

Sir,

Actually v r not getting 129 without US permission..

 

[Bossman]

Hi,

Thanks for the correction---so army it is---.

So---I am coming to Pakistan---can we get together and share some of the 'medications' that you take---so that I may see what you see---.

I will swing by your place in Orange County next time I am in the area, which is quiet often.

 

[airmarshal]

Here is my question, what kind of unspeakable idiotic moron do you have to be if you are a Pakistani General/Air Marshal/Politician to buy any sort of equipment which requires US approval for delivery, especially in this climate? The relations are so bad and there are strings on everything. This should have been anticipated and either another engine or a different chopper should have been selected. An slightly inferior chopper (WZ-10) in your hand is better than nothing in the bush. Word should have been made clear to Turkey, secure the export agreements and then we fork over the cash. This concept of paying on layaway is like Pre-Pressler mindset all over again, with the only redeeming thing being that it is Turkey you are dealing with rather than the US so you may get your money back if they cant deliver, and definitely wont get soy beans in return.

Im starting to sympathize with @MastanKhan's traitor comments.

That is not the question. Pakistan acquisition of weapons from USA is already negligible. AH-1zs were offered under FMS. That is a US govt program where US govt subsidizes defence exports to 1. exert influence and 2. sustain defence industry.

Since Pakistan pays bare minimum for such advanced weaponry, it does not hurt its interests to acquire a few. You dont have to be moron to make such simple decisions.

 

[HAIDER]

The AH-1Z is where it's at due to the US cancelling FMF/CSF; Pakistan wanted to use FMF/CSF to fund AH-1Zs.

The T129 is a little strange; TAI built the first batch in months because it re-routed some aircraft meant for the Turkish Armed Forces to Pakistan. This generally doesn't happen, it takes 2+ years to get new aircraft ready for delivery, so it seems TAI just got ahead of the process (i.e. the US wasn't given enough time to process the ITAR approval for the CTS800).

Engine issue always pop up in helo deliver ...

 

[GriffinsRule]

If the engine is such a big issue, how is it not an issue for you people about all the other with US made engines in our inventory? I don't hear calls from anyone on any effort to try to replace all of these or to re-engine them with Chinese options do we. I'd say most of these are much more important then a dozen attack helos thats got everyone so hot and bothered. Bell 412s, P-3C Orions, C-130s, F-16s, K-8s, heck even Mushshaks use American engines. The list is a lot more comprehensive if you get into it. So if the US was to really clamp down and stop all military support and sales to Pakistan, it will impact all branches of government. 12 Cobras that we might get on the cheap don't add much to that threat calculus.

 

[MastanKhan]

If the engine is such a big issue, how is it not an issue for you people about all the other with US made engines in our inventory? I don't hear calls from anyone on any effort to try to replace all of these or to re-engine them with Chinese options do we. I'd say most of these are much more important then a dozen attack helos thats got everyone so hot and bothered. Bell 412s, P-3C Orions, C-130s, F-16s, K-8s, heck even Mushshaks use American engines. The list is a lot more comprehensive if you get into it. So if the US was to really clamp down and stop all military support and sales to Pakistan, it will impact all branches of government. 12 Cobras that we might get on the cheap don't add much to that threat calculus.

Hi,

When you have already drunk a cup of poison---you don't go out and drink and another cu of poison from the same source just because you are thirsty---.

There are many a sources from where you can scavenge the parts for already operating equipment---but to get a brand new item from the same source is tantamount to treason---.

 

[JohnWick]

Hi,

When you have already drunk a cup of poison---you don't go out and drink and another cu of poison from the same source just because you are thirsty---.

There are many a sources from where you can scavenge the parts for already operating equipment---but to get a brand new item from the same source is tantamount to treason---.

Hi,

but v have no choice

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

but v have no choice

Ok---if you say so---.