Pakistan's Submarine Procurement

[ARSENAL6]

No, sharkskin coating is just experimental and secondly the submarines do not need more speed but more stealth. Turkish R&D programs concentrate more on radar absorbing materials and de-magnetization of the hull, the Milgem is getting a degausing system to de-magnatize the hull and may be applied also to the submarines.

Ah well Its something to look at whats wrong having both tech later on.
Having a sub that goes faster, movable and stealth makes it a powerful adversary.

 

[Quwa]

Nutuk;

Can you provide us details on the TF-2000 AAW FFG? What is the expected displacement of this ship...I project 5500 to 7000? Regarding weapon-systems, my understanding is that Turkey will likely use the SM2 (or other Standard-series) for AAW. However on WAFF there is a thread regarding an indigenous Turkish medium-range air defence system...couldn't this theoretically be configured on ships through the Aster-15 SAAM concept?

 

[Nutuk]

Nutuk;

Can you provide us details on the TF-2000 AAW FFG? What is the expected displacement of this ship...I project 5500 to 7000? Regarding weapon-systems, my understanding is that Turkey will likely use the SM2 (or other Standard-series) for AAW. However on WAFF there is a thread regarding an indigenous Turkish medium-range air defence system...couldn't this theoretically be configured on ships through the Aster-15 SAAM concept?

Hello, what ever you read on WAFF most of it is guesswork. From various Turkish defence sites one can gather that the TF2000 is most likely to become a ripp of from the Korean KDX III destroyer but nothing is certain since the whole project is a military secret.

The head of the SSM (Turkish military procurement office) Murad Bayar stated that the construction of the TF2000 will start in 2009. At this moment he is the only official who can give any detail but as said they keep it strictly secret, there is not even a sketch of the TF2000 published yet. In one of the Turkish defence papers Murad Bayar was quoted that the Aegis radar system was concidered for the TF2000, thus yes most likely SM2 / 3 like missiles are concidered.

 

[U-571]

plss can somebdy explain me "de-magnatize the hull ", just for knowledge

 

[falcone]

This might be old news, but here is potential confirmation of the U-214 deal:

From Jane's Defense Industry

Pakistan, Germany close to concluding Type 214 submarine deal

The Pakistan Navy appears close to concluding a deal to procure Germany's Type 214 to meet its next-generation submarine requirement, with the chief executive officer (CEO) of designer Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) having said that a contract with Islamabad is virtually complete. Spokesmen from the Pakistan Navy and the Pakistan Ministry of Defence told Jane's on 27 November that they were not prepared to comment on the matter.

[first posted to Jane's Defence Industry - Analysis and news for the global defence industry - 27 November 2008

 

[mohammadkhan70]

U-214 is a nice sub and would be a good addition in our existing submarine fleet
One thing is very inportant for Pakistan and that is; whichever submarine it would procure, it should have the capability to fire the Babur cruise missile, so that our stealth fleet could strike deep, well im not sure if PN still possess the technology to fire Babur coz no test has been conducted in this regard (e.g. PAF has conducted the test fire of Ra'ad)

Germany currently have U-214 in its fleet; what cruise missile do they use.

 

[blain2]

Germany currently have U-214 in its fleet; what cruise missile do they use.

Germans do not use any cruise missiles with their U-212s, however the IDF Navy is rumored to have done some work on getting the LACM capability on board. Although the new generation of Harpoon is a very effective (albeit short-legged) LACM.

 

[Quwa]

Germans do not use any cruise missiles with their U-212s, however the IDF Navy is rumored to have done some work on getting the LACM capability on board. Although the new generation of Harpoon is a very effective (albeit short-legged) LACM.

Though not a cruise missile, the Germans are marketing the IDAS missile to Pakistan with this submarine. It has some limited land attack capability, but can also engage low altitude aerial targets.

IDAS (missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I don't think it'll be too long before Pakistan embarks on its own AShM project. Although we are importing Harpoon and C-802, a local design would ease the supply line when trying to similarly arm units of diverse backgrounds. This missile doesn't have to be terribly complicated, I think we could simply work on a design in collaboration with South Africa, China and/or France. In fact, I recall a news article in which then PN Chief said development of an AShM and even ASROC was underway.

 

[Tomahawk]

Germany currently have U-214 in its fleet; what cruise missile do they use.

Currently German U-212 are armed with torpedos (DM2A4 heavyweight torpedo weapon system from Atlas Elektronik), while in June 2008 German Navy tested IDAS submarine-launched missile from one of its U-212 sub, but IDAS is designed to protect against anti-submarine helicopters. Range for IDAS is 20km.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan on verge of selecting HDW submarine
By Jon Grevatt
02 December 2008

Pakistan appears close to selecting Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft's (HDW's) Type 214 design for its next-generation submarine requirement in preference to the Scorpene offered by DCNS.

According to media reports in Karachi, HDW Chief Executive Officer Walter Freitag said the company had drawn up technical specifications to build the three boats in Pakistan and that a contract was almost complete.

Spokesmen for the Pakistan Navy (PN) and the Pakistan Ministry of Defence told Jane's on 27 November that they were not prepared to comment on the reports. However, an HDW spokeswoman said she would not deny Freitag's statement that "the commercial contract has been finalised up to 95 per cent".

Pakistan on verge of selecting HDW submarine - Jane's Naval Forces News

This is the latest news from janes.

 

[Arsalan]

seniors can someone please guide what was the hurdel in procurment of U212 a far better platform compared to the U214 having a nonmagntised hull, virtually silent and undetectable.

aslo please can canyone tell if the U214will also be using the fuel cell same as those of U212 which are said to be really advance technology!

and again what went wrong for U212 as it would have been the best option, being regarded as among the best in conventional subs, was there the money factor only as i have not heared of any other problem!

Guidance from you will be really helpfull
thanx

 

[Arsalan]

i guess U212 would have been a far better option,

The German Type 212 is a highly advanced design of non-nuclear submarine (U-Boat) developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) for the German Navy. It features diesel propulsion and an additional air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens proton exchange membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. The submarine can operate at high speed on diesel power or switch to the AIP system for silent slow cruising, staying submerged for up to three weeks without surfacing and with no exhaust heat. The system is also said to be vibration-free, extremely quiet and virtually undetectable.

on the other hand the U214 do not have some classified technology from the U212, the U214 though based more on the type 209 still incorporates the U212 features and is ermed as the export version of U212

The Type 214 is a diesel-electric submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW). It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte module (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. It is based on features of the Type 212, but as the export version of the more advanced Type 212 submarine it lacks the non-magnetic hull (to avoid detection) and other classified technologies. Also Type 214 is more similar to the very successful Type 209 submarine, while Type 212 was an independent project of the German Navy with significant changes to Type 209.

 

[Arsalan]

so the point is why didnt the GOP went for U212 as it would have been the best option, being regarded as among the best in conventional subs, was there the money factor only as i have not heared of any other problem!

can someone debate this issue please,

 

[Tomahawk]

seniors can someone please guide what was the hurdel in procurment of U212 a far better platform compared to the U214 having a nonmagntised hull, virtually silent and undetectable.

aslo please can canyone tell if the U214will also be using the fuel cell same as those of U212 which are said to be really advance technology!

and again what went wrong for U212 as it would have been the best option, being regarded as among the best in conventional subs, was there the money factor only as i have not heared of any other problem!

Guidance from you will be really helpfull
thanx

The U214-class submarines are an advanced and larger derivative of U212 submarines.The new class of submarines will feature improved hydrogen fuel cells and diesel propulsion system. The Shape of hull for U214 has been further optimised for hydrodynamic and stealth characteristics and a low-noise propeller combine to decrease the submarine's acoustic signature.

 

[Imran Khan]

Pakistan on verge of selecting HDW submarine


By Jon Grevatt
02 December 2008



Pakistan appears close to selecting Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft's (HDW's) Type 214 design for its next-generation submarine requirement in preference to the Scorpene offered by DCNS.

According to media reports in Karachi, HDW Chief Executive Officer Walter Freitag said the company had drawn up technical specifications to build the three boats in Pakistan and that a contract was almost complete.

Spokesmen for the Pakistan Navy (PN) and the Pakistan Ministry of Defence told Jane's on 27 November that they were not prepared to comment on the reports. However, an HDW spokeswoman said she would not deny Freitag's statement that "the commercial contract has been finalised up to 95 per cent".



Pakistan on verge of selecting HDW submarine - Jane's Naval Forces News