Pakistan's Submarine deal with China is terrible

[WaLeEdK2]

You seriously trust this load of rubbish wrote by this Hassan guy? The same one who claim F-35 shall be bought. White man product worshipper with no merit but based on his years of living in Canada and brain washing by the west.

He's the one that keeps on wanting an AC for no reason too lmao. This deal was necessary and it is money well spent.

 

[Beast]

He's the one that keeps on wanting an AC for no reason too lmao. This deal was necessary and it is money well spent.

Precisely, cant believe some long time member even go with his insanity and his brainwashed. This Hassan Guy is just an overseas pakistanis who believe Western countries and their products are the savior for Pakistan in his delusion dream.

True Pakistanis who love Pakistan and wish for real progress and stronger Pakistan must stand up and say some true word. What has the west do for Pakistan in the last 20years, especially the Americans?

Real Pakistanis shall not trust those overseas Pakistanis. They live in a western world constant brainwashed by the imperial west who try to spread Asia inferiority and try to brainwashed overseas Asian that Asia can only save by the white people. The asian can only be slaved to whiteman.

Why would imperial west wants a strong Asia? Simple logic.

 

[Imran Khan]

as you have no data and no info abut the deal how can you comment on it ?

 

[royalharris]

Precisely, cant believe some long time member even go with his insanity and his brainwashed. This Hassan Guy is just an overseas pakistanis who believe Western countries and their products are the savior for Pakistan in his delusion dream.

True Pakistanis who love Pakistan and wish for real progress and stronger Pakistan must stand up and say some true word. What has the west do for Pakistan in the last 20years, especially the Americans?

Real Pakistanis shall not trust those overseas Pakistanis. They live in a western world constant brainwashed by the imperial west who try to spread Asia inferiority and try to brainwashed overseas Asian that Asia can only save by the white people. The asian can only be slaved to whiteman.

Why would imperial west wants a strong Asia? Simple logic.

For our Chinese, we should leave such debate alone,it is not necessary for us to waste our time with such guys

 

[Beast]

For our Chinese, we should leave such debate alone,it is not necessary for us to waste our time with such guys

True Pakistanis needs to wake up. The inferiority complex of Asia shall be washed away. Especially from Asian themselves.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Yes, you read the title right. The Submarine deal Pakistan cracked with China a few years back was terrible. Now firstly I will admit.....we don't really know what type of submarines we are buying. If 6 of the subs end up being some of the most advanced AIP subs that are better then their european counterparts, and the other 2 are nuclear powered and capable with VLS for SLBM's - Then I'll be like...
View attachment 361350
BUT if the submarine deal turns out to be us just getting 8 S-20 export conventional SSK's that aren't China's best subs - Then the deal is terrible as a matter of fact....shit.

A lot of people on this forum will say "conventional attack submarines that can launch the babur SLCM is great for our sea based detterent and we are all set"
I see this comment ALOT and every time my reaction is...
View attachment 361351
Bruh - We need Submarines with VLS that can fire SLBM's. SLCM's won't do jack.
Anyway's Ill get back to that topic another day.

Back to the Submarine deal - In retrospect 8 S-20 submarines doesn't seem like a bad defence deal, but it kind of is.

8 Chinese submarines - 5 Billion dollars - 12 years
Too long and costly
Before discussing the you have already given the decision in the selection of the topic that it is a "TERRIBLE DEAL" this speaks that your views will be biased from the outset. Then you started discussing IF this happens then this will happen stuff.
Poor start to an otherwise good subject.

Pakistan should have:
1. Produced its own submarines with Chinese and Turkish assistance
Or
2. Buy 4 from China and 4 from Germany, Spain or Sweden - Then we would get 8 at the same time

All I can say is - I hope our Admirals know what they're doing.

 

[DeceptiveEagle]

Going for the German subs is the best option.

Currently, Germany is pretty unhappy with India due Indian buying French Scorpenes and RAFALEs

Germany is willing to share it best tech with Pakistan and Pakistan should grab it with both hands.

Another option is to go for Russian subs.

but the main issue DOLLARS ...

 

[CriticalThought]

True Pakistanis needs to wake up. The inferiority complex of Asia shall be washed away. Especially from Asian themselves.

I hear you brother. First of all, @Hassan Guy only talks for himself. Second, given the lack of details on the deal, no one can really make an informed comment on the situation.

Probably the best thing to discuss is that in a democracy, keeping such details as the type of subs away from the public is an outrage against freedom of information. It is the public's money being invested, they have the right to know the details.

And the only counter to the freedom of information argument is that the details are so highly classified, they are a matter of national security, hence need to be kept top secret.

 

[Hassan Guy]

He's the one that keeps on wanting an AC for no reason too lmao. This deal was necessary and it is money well spent.

I also said we should have our own space station

Precisely, cant believe some long time member even go with his insanity and his brainwashed. This Hassan Guy is just an overseas pakistanis who believe Western countries and their products are the savior for Pakistan in his delusion dream.

True Pakistanis who love Pakistan and wish for real progress and stronger Pakistan must stand up and say some true word. What has the west do for Pakistan in the last 20years, especially the Americans?

Real Pakistanis shall not trust those overseas Pakistanis. They live in a western world constant brainwashed by the imperial west who try to spread Asia inferiority and try to brainwashed overseas Asian that Asia can only save by the white people. The asian can only be slaved to whiteman.

Why would imperial west wants a strong Asia? Simple logic.

something tells me this guy just read the title

as you have no data and no info abut the deal how can you comment on it ?

Most 'sources' have said it most likely and most probably the S-20, if thats the case then yeah the deal is crap

 

[Darth Vader]

as you have no data and no info abut the deal how can you comment on it ?

How dare you ask a source

Uncle trump is his real Chacha , and his mama putin gave him all the confidential information after hacking us elections

LoL

 

[Hassan Guy]

How dare you ask a source

Uncle trump is his real Chacha , and his mama putin gave him all the confidential information after hacking us elections

LoL

in a nutshell

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The actual price of the deal is not publicly known. The $4-5bn figure was found by the Financial Times, but they basically got it from a university researcher who wasn't in a position to know the specifics of the contract, including costs.

Besides, if Pakistan had $4bn to spend on submarines, they would almost certainly buy Western submarines. In other words, the main reason why Chinese submarines were even sought in the first place was because they're not as costly. The cost of Pakistan's AIP submarines likely sit in the $350-400mn per ship range.

Anyways, strategic deterrence isn't the only role of a submarine, far from it. Conventional submarines are the core of Pakistan's anti-access and area-denial (A2/AD) strategy, which is to prevent enemy surface warships and submarines from entering Pakistan's littoral waters, i.e. the vicinity of our ports, shipyards, dockyards, etc. With enough units, Pakistan could also deploy some submarines to help deter enemy surface warships from its sea-lanes.

In this respect, stealthiness (low-observable and low-detectable), AIP, and the ability to deploy heavyweight torpedoes (to fracture hulls) and anti-ship cruise missiles are key. The Chinese submarines fit the bill.

As for the 12-year timeline. Pakistan's Agosta 90B program spanned from 1994 to 2007, i.e. 13 years. Egypt ordered two Type 209s from Germany in 2011, but the ships entered sea-trials in 2016 - i.e. 5 years after the order. This is apparently how the industry works, be it Chinese or European.

 

[Shajida Khan]

1. Are there any other Chinese subs beside Type-039A/S-20 with AIP?

2. Are there any Chinese projects underway over S-20?

On Topic:
Investing in your ally's weapons industry is usually a good idea. Sometimes, these are done for political reason as well, they are offering you S-20 right now and they may be working on a better platform which you will get access to ahead of others when it is available. I remember reading something like that back when US was pushing their F-16 to India. "Buy F-16 now and may be you can get some discount on F-35 when it is ready."

 

[Hassan Guy]

Pretty much no need to read beyond this.

Most say its the S-20, if thats case - then the deal is crap

 

[royalharris]